What is the best proof there is an afterlife?

[dmar198]

One argument for the afterlife is based on the difference between a corpse and a living body. In the morning a man is alive, but by the evening he may be a corpse. Now what is the difference between the two? It’s not a difference of material. There is no chemical you could add to the corpse that would make it alive again, nothing material could do that. But there is a difference. Therefore, there is a nonmaterial element without which the body is a corpse, and which disconnects from the body at death. Catholics call it the soul.

A second argument for the afterlife is based on justice. If there is no life after death, there is no justice. Good and evil are not balanced in this life. Good people often suffer, evil people often do well. Also, if there is no future life, there is no true morality. Rob, lie, murder – only be careful! The only way true justice can be served is if we have a soul that lives on after death, where a sentence of judgment awaits. But if there is no afterlife, then there is ultimately no justice and no morality either.

A third argument for the afterlife is based on the law of nature. Human beings naturally believe in life after death and in many cases look forward to it. Fr. Rumble’s book “Radio Replies Volume 3” uses this as an argument that the afterlife is real: “Could anyone conceive that God would form that most delicate organ of hearing, the ear, so wonderfully adapted to every kind of vibration, yet endow no objects with the power of causing sound? The whole tendency of the ear would be to hear, yet it would never do so because its complementary object would be wanting. Every natural tendency implies and has an object.” Therefore, something exists which corresponds to our natural expectation of an afterlife.

 

[pianistclare]

I would think “empirical” evidence would include

• the Resurrection
• the Marian apparitions
• the incorruptible bodies of the saints
• stories of levitating saints like St. Joseph of Cupertino and other mystical stuff
  Just the sort of things that would convince a doubting Thomas.

Off-Topic:

You should post that quote from St. Maximilion Kolbe on the endless threads questioning why we honor Our Lady.

 

[Tomdstone]

One argument for the afterlife is based on the difference between a corpse and a living body. In the morning a man is alive, but by the evening he may be a corpse. Now what is the difference between the two? It’s not a difference of material. There is no chemical you could add to the corpse that would make it alive again, nothing material could do that. But there is a difference. Therefore, there is a nonmaterial element without which the body is a corpse, and which disconnects from the body at death. Catholics call it the soul…

Does that argument also work with the corpse of a crocodile?

 

[pianistclare]

Does that argument also work with the corpse of a crocodile?

Croc don’t have a soul, mate!

 

[Birdpreacher]

Can you provide some scientific hard proof that Love exists?

yes. Love is an emotion. We can study emotions from observing people’s bodies and state of mind. Give me a better argument Bob.

And besides, following your logic I can say to you, “Can you prove that I will NEVER win the lotto in my lifetime?” You can’t. Yet I would be a fool to make decisions in my day to day life as if I am to receive millions of dollars down the road.

 

[triumphguy]

Do you remember anything about existing the million of years before your conception??

I have a feeling death will be a similar blankness. I would love to believe in an afterlife where I get to see my loved ones again, but I would also love to believe that I am gonna win the lotto sometime in my lifetime, both are just wishful claims with no evidence.

That’s because we didn’t exist before conception.

However, can you remember anything from the 9 months in your mother’s womb?

 

[Birdpreacher]

That’s because we didn’t exist before conception.

However, can you remember anything from the 9 months in your mother’s womb?

If you didn’t exist before conception than why do you think its gonna be any different after you die?

 

[estesbob]

yes. Love is an emotion. We can study emotions from observing people’s bodies and state of mind. Give me a better argument Bob.

And besides, following your logic I can say to you, “Can you prove that I will NEVER win the lotto in my lifetime?” You can’t. Yet I would be a fool to make decisions in my day to day life as if I am to receive millions of dollars down the road.

In short you cant provide any scientific hard proof that love exists. So either we dismiss the existence of love or we realize that not everything that is real can be proven by science

 

[estesbob]

If you didn’t exist before conception than why do you think its gonna be any different after you die?

Because I came into existence. Why should one assume that physical existence is the only existence there is?

 

[spiderweb]

While it may not be conclusive evidence, the scientific studies relating to Near Death Experiences (NDE), does seem to point to “something” after we die.

Here is just one of many websites about this near-death.com/science/evidence.html

 

[Birdpreacher]

Because I came into existence. Why should one assume that physical existence is the only existence there is?

For the same reason you DON’T assume that you are going to win the lotto in your lifetime. Nonphysical existence is possible but there is no evidence to show for it. Its just as possible that when we die we play an intergalactic game of basketball with Lord Xenu from the Church of Scientology.

And you have a bias: You want to exist after death. So any promise of eternal life surrounded by loved ones will captivate you.

 

[estesbob]

*Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22**Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23*but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

I Corinthians 1: 21-25

*“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
― St. Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica. II-II, Q. 1, Art. 5, and Art. 10 *

 

[estesbob]

For the same reason you DON’T assume that you are going to win the lotto in your lifetime. Nonphysical existence is possible but there is no evidence to show for it. Its just as possible that when we die we play an intergalactic game of basketball with Lord Xenu from the Church of Scientology.

And you have a bias: You want to exist after death. So any promise of eternal life surrounded by loved ones will captivate you.

The fact that I want to exist after my life on earth is irrelevant as to whether there is life after death.

 

[Birdpreacher]

The fact that I want to exist after my life on earth is irrelevant as to whether there is life after death.

I agree. But its relevant as to whether you will believe in life after death despite no hard evidence to support such a belief. People actively choose to disregard the lack of evidence due to this strong desire for self-preservation and the anxiety that comes with not existing.

 

[estesbob]

I agree. But its relevant as to whether you will believe in life after death despite no hard evidence to support such a belief. People actively choose to disregard the lack of evidence due to this strong desire for self-preservation and the anxiety that comes with not existing.

I don’t know of this anxiety you are referring to. My Faith already provides me immeasurable joy in this life whether I was to exist after death or not. Your premise that people of Faith are driven by fear and insecurity is fatally flawed. It would be difficult for a non-believer to grasp this as they are asking for hard , scientific evidence.

Now Thomas (also known as Didymusa ), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
**
John 20: 24-29

 

[mikekle]

I guess for me it would be ghosts. If there wasn’t something after death- if we didn’t have souls- could ghosts exist? To me, the answer is no.

And I had an encounter, I guess you could say, when I was 8 years old and had a near-drowning experience. And someone pulled me out of the pool- but there was no one there. My parents never saw me go under. They were the only people on the pool deck. But someone else pulled me out. And then disappeared. I remember seeing the arm come down into the water and grab my hand. I used to think it was Jesus himself, but now I lean more on it having been an Angel, because it seems like God would probably be a little busy.

YES, I would agree, even if you want to take religion out of it, and are wanting proof of the afterlife, ghosts are a pretty good indication there is something after this life, even the apostles knew about ghosts, they thought Jesus was one when he first appeared to them after being crucified, the fact that they knew what a ghost was and had a word for them, is huge.

Orbs are also good proof, LOTS of people see these things every day, there is plenty of videos of them, it is clear they are something related to ghosts.

I think and worry about this alot actually, Im constantly fearing, when I die, i will ‘wake up’ somewhere terrible, and I will be unable to change it, it doesnt help when I read all these things about peoples minds possibly creating their own afterlives either, this is scary, because my mind has come up with some terrible things!

 

[Birdpreacher]

I don’t know of this anxiety you are referring to. My Faith already provides me immeasurable joy in this life whether I was to exist after death or not. Your premise that people of Faith are driven by fear and insecurity is fatally flawed. It would be difficult for a non-believer to grasp this as they are asking for hard , scientific evidence.

Now Thomas (also known as Didymusa ), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26*A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27*Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
**
John 20: 24-29

1. I am glad your religion gives you joy. People should have the right to live their lives in a way that maximizes personal fulfillment
2. How is the premise flawed? The uncertainty of death stresses out everyone. People want a place of supreme happiness where the troubles of this world will no longer vex them and they want this happiness to last for eternity.
3. I like the doubting Thomas story because it is used in many faiths throughout history. The story operates as a tool. The story teaches that we ought not to doubt and that blind faith in whatever the religion preaches is commendable. Moreso that the all loving God will love you and bless you more the less you question the religion. Many holy books have excerpts that call for complete submission to its tenants at the expense of critical thought.

 

[triumphguy]

If you didn’t exist before conception than why do you think its gonna be any different after you die?

Because I am already (as are you) living life eternal. The condition will be changed, as it changed for you from your mother’s womb to the open air and the outside world.

 

[triumphguy]

1. I am glad your religion gives you joy. People should have the right to live their lives in a way that maximizes personal fulfillment
2. How is the premise flawed? The uncertainty of death stresses out everyone. People want a place of supreme happiness where the troubles of this world will no longer vex them and they want this happiness to last for eternity.
3. I like the doubting Thomas story because it is used in many faiths throughout history. The story operates as a tool. The story teaches that we ought not to doubt and that blind faith in whatever the religion preaches is commendable. Moreso that the all loving God will love you and bless you more the less you question the religion. Many holy books have excerpts that call for complete submission to its tenants at the expense of critical thought.

No,the Church does NOT teach that blind faith is commendable.

Blind faith is NOT enough and leads to fundamentalism.

The Church has always sought reason and understanding (Read Augustine on St. Anselm’s dictum fides quaerens intellectum).

In fact, if you choose to study Church teaching in any depth you will see that it always operates from reason.

Which is why the first Universities, and the first scientists, and the basis for the scientific age have their roots in Catholicism.

 

[Birdpreacher]

No,the Church does NOT teach that blind faith is commendable.

Blind faith is NOT enough and leads to fundamentalism.

The Church has always sought reason and understanding (Read Augustine on St. Anselm’s dictum fides quaerens intellectum).

In fact, if you choose to study Church teaching in any depth you will see that it always operates from reason.

Which is why the first Universities, and the first scientists, and the basis for the scientific age have their roots in Catholicism.

Hello, allow me to clarify. Blind Faith in Church Teachings and Papal Authority.

The story of doubting thomas promotes the value of believing without seeing. How is that not blind faith?

I am not sure what scientific age you are talking about, but much of our knowledge can be traced to people of numerous faiths (Muslims preserving Classical Philopshical Writings and developing Algebra while Christians were in dark ages) and people of no faith (various Enlightenment thinkers) To say that this scientific age only exists thanks to Chrisitians is a bit inflated. Christians have contributed greatly to science but are not the bringers of science to the world.