What is the book of Mormon all about

[CHRISTINE77]

Good afternoon Christine77! I hope you’ve been happy today.

Thank you for your question. Hopefully I can provide a cohesive answer.

In LDS theology, God is a man. It isn’t that he was once a man. This should not be understood to mean, however, that God is anything less than perfect, omniscient, omnipotent, etc. God is a Man of Holiness, an Exalted Man, a Glorified Man. Again, allow me to borrow from Vajda’s thesis because I think the explanation he uses will be helpful in understanding this LDS position:

"*Think of an infant cradled by its parent. The infant and the parent are both human beings. Yet, from observation alone, apart from any other knowledge or experience, one would be hard-pressed if asked to prove this assertion. The infant and its parent look different, sound different, are amazingly unequal as to their abilities or actual capacities. Apart from some knowledge and experience, one could never guess that the infant has already the inborn capacity to grow and develop into the maturity and capacity of the adult parent. And although the child possesses, as a fact of its being, this innate capacity to grow up and thus possess for itself the already-possessed maturity of its parent, it is, nevertheless, utterly dependent on the love and providence of its parent for the realization of this potential.

In a similar way, the LDS doctrine of exaltation explains human salvation as being fundamentally about a process of human growth and progress. Being literal spirit children of divine parentage, all persons who come into this world possess already the capacity to grow up and become just like their Heavenly Parents—with all the same powers and abilities. But, as with the children we see every day, this growth and progress can only take place in radical dependence on the love and grace of God the Father, by freely accepting his “great plan of happiness,” a plan whose heart and center is the person of Jesus Christ, whose atonement then enables us to attain the full measure of our existence—to become a god*."

I hope this helped in answering your question. If I missed your point, please let me know.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

Hi Finrock,

Thank you for your answer, however, you did not address my question about the eternity of God. In the Catholic religion, God is, was and ever shall be God. True, Man was created in the image of God, but humans aren’t divine, and God is not human. Plus, correct me if I am wrong, I thought it was said that God was a man just like us, and gradually progressed into being a God.

 

[Finrock]

Hi Finrock,

Thank you for your answer, however, you did not address my question about the eternity of God. Plus, correct me if I am wrong, I thought it was said that God was a man just like us, and gradually progressed into being a God.

I gotcha. There is no doubt, that as far as we are concerned, God “…is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them” (D&C 20:17). Also, there is no doubt that God will forever be God. His status will not change. Was there a point in time when God was not God? I don’t think Mormons have a definitive answer to that question. I’ve had discussions about this with many members of my church, and there doesn’t seem to be a consensus. Speaking from the Mormon canon of scripture, it is clear that God is God from “everlasting to everlasting”, eternal, and infinite.

Our late president, Gordon Hinckley, said the following concerning this:

“I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don’t know a lot about it, and I don’t think others know a lot about it.”

Really, that would be my position too.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I gotcha. There is no doubt, that as far as we are concerned, God “…is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them” (D&C 20:17). Also, there is no doubt that God will forever be God. His status will not change. Was there a point in time when God was not God? I don’t think Mormons have a definitive answer to that question. I’ve had discussions about this with many members of my church, and there doesn’t seem to be a consensus. Speaking from the Mormon canon of scripture, it is clear that God is God from “everlasting to everlasting”, eternal, and infinite.

Our late president, Gordon Hinckley, said the following concerning this:

“I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don’t know a lot about it, and I don’t think others know a lot about it.”

Really, that would be my position too.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

Okay good. I was a little worried about that, because I really thought that was a strange idea, thanks for clarifying. See - that’s why this forum is great, because it dispels misconceptions. I think there is a lot of misinformation spread about Mormons from untrustworthy sources.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’m not sure how you determined Vajda is speculating. If he is speculating then so are the other Orthodox theologians, because this is their understanding of theosis.

His thesis is not doctrinal, to begin with. Also, Vadja is NOT a Catholic theologian. He was a seminary student, who wrote a thesis.

According to Orthodox understanding of theosis it isn’t a matter of “working your way” in to different levels of holiness. That isn’t what Vajda was suggesting and neither was I. It is a matter of how receptive you are to the requirements of theosis.

Finrock, I have never read, from Orthodox sources, what Vadja claims. Vadja is not an Orthodox theologian. He is not a Roman Catholic theologian. Further, you have taken what he has written and put a Mormon spin on it. For you to even grasp what he is talking about, in catholic terms, they need to be put in a catholic context.

More appropriately, in theosis you partake of God’s divine energies.

New age nonsense that no orthodox teaching would ever claim.

Also, Orthodox understanding of theosis is that you become all that God is by grace, except His essence, or nature. Orthodox theosis is about becoming a god. When you share in the divine energies, you will have all the attributes of god, although you will retain your human nature, you will be, nonetheless, simultaneously “unoriginate and eternal.”

No Finrock, Orthodox refute quite soundly that a creature (us) can be Created. The correct understanding is that Jesus is both human and divine. His divinity is consubstantial with the Father and Holy Spirit. His humanity is consubstanital with us. It is through Jesus that we share in the divine nature of the Trinity. We do not become that nature.

However, in the context of my argument, this point is irrelevant. Nothing I suggested in my post was contigent on the contradiction of this distinction in human natures.

It is very relevant Finrock, as Mormon exaltation is man becoming an exalted man, as you believe your god to be. Catholic theoisis is man sharing in the divine nature of God.

In fact, the West has largely relagated the doctrine of theosis to a point where it isn’t recognizable when contrasted with how the Orthodox understand it.

This is not correct. The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly teaches theosis. The patristic Fathers of the Orthodox Church are the patristic Fathers of the Catholic Church. You make a separation where there is none.

But, by describing the Catholic understanding of salvation, you aren’t addressing my point, which I stated in my last post (hence the irrelevant conclusion). I was careful to distinguish between Catholic and Orthodox perspectives.

They are the same, Finrock. Salvation is God saving us from our fallen state in order that we might be in perfect, holy, communion with Him. This perfect, holy, communion was given the name “theosis” OR “beatific vision”. The Eucharist is central to our understanding, East and West.

It is clear that in Orthodoxy theosis consist of various degrees of experiences, and not everyone experiences theosis to the same degree.

This is not clear. This is the speculation of Vadja.

People experience theosis only to the degree that they have aligned their wills and their lives to the requirements of theosis. And further, you can find a similar concept in Mormon understanding of salvation, where an individual will be assigned a degree of glory based on to what degree they aligned their wills and their lives to God’s will and desire.

You are applying Mormon concepts to catholic belief. I know this is a favorite Mormon pasttime, and you do it all over the place. But isn’t going to fly here.

Perhaps reading the entry on theosis at the Orthodox wiki will help you out.

Further,in regards to energies, St. Gregory Palamas used the term synonymous with “activities”:

“The “essence of God” is absolutely inaccessible to man, says St. Basil (*Adv. Eunomium *1:14). We know God only *in *His actions, and by His actions: *He**meis de ek men ton energeion gnorizein legomen ton Theon hemon, te de ousia prosengizein ouch hypischnoumetha hai men gar energeiai autou pros hemas katabainousin, he de ousia autou menei aprositos. *[We say that we know our God from his energies (activities), but we do not profess to approach his essence—for his energies descend to us, but his essence remains inaccessible (*Epist. 234, ad Amphilochium)].”

 

[Finrock]

Hi RebeccaJ!

Not that it matters, but Jordan was an ordained Dominican priest when he wrote his thesis.

Finrock, I have never read, from Orthodox sources, what Vadja claims. Vadja is not an Orthodox theologian. For you to even grasp what he is talking about, in catholic terms, they need to be put in a catholic context…

Sorry Finrock, you are applying Mormon concepts to catholic belief. I know this is a favorite Mormon pasttime, and you do it all over the place. But isn’t going to fly here.

I’m sorry, I think you have missed the point. I wasn’t comparing the Catholic understanding of theosis to Mormon understanding of exaltation. I was comparing Orthodox understanding of theosis to Mormon exaltation. Vajda used as his source the writings of Greek Church Fathers and how 20th century Orthodox theologians understand theosis. Vajda references are there for you to check. He isn’t speculating, neither is he providing his opinion.

I’m not intending to put an LDS spin on anything. Rather I’m pointing out similarities that exist between the concepts. This shouldn’t be confused to mean that the concepts are identical.

It appears you aren’t very versed in Orthodox theosis (this isn’t a put down, just an observation). I can provide some links for you to read from, in case you are interested in learning more. But, consider these quotes (most are from greekorthodoxchurch.org):

Our purpose is to become gods

"Externally, man seems to be just a biological being, like other living beings, the animals. Of course, he is an animal, but ‘an animal … which can be deified through its inclination towards God’, as St. Gregory the Theologian characteristically says (Homily on the Epiphany MPG 36, 324, 13). He is the only being that stands apart from all creation; the only one which can become a god" (Abbott of the Holy Monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos).

“The Creator, God by nature, calls man to become a god by Grace” (Abbott of the Holy Monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos).

“[T]he final purpose for which our Maker and Creator formed man…” is “Deification – for man to be united with God, not in an external or a sentimental way, but ontologically, really” (Abbott of the Holy Monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos, Emphasis added).

“Man is ‘called to be a god’, i.e. he was created to become a god” (Abbott of the Holy Monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos).

Experience of Theosis is Proportional

"Experiences of Theosis are proportional to the purity of man. The more someone is cleansed from the passions, the higher the experience he will receive from God" (Abbott of the Holy Monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos, Emphasis added).

Theosis is Taking Part in Divine Energies

“In the Orthodox Church of Christ man can achieve daification because, according to the teachings of the Holy Bible and the Fathers of the Church, the Grace of God is uncreated. God is not only essence, as the West thinks; He is also energy. If God was only essence, we could not unite with Him…” (Abbott of the Holy Monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos).

“St. Maximus the Confessor, St. Dionysius the Areopagite, and other holy Fathers repeatedly say, God is filled with a divine love, a divine eros for His creatures. Because of this infinite and ecstatic love of His, He comes out of Himself and seeks to unite with them. This is expressed and realised by means of His energy or, better, His energies” (Abbott of the Holy Monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos, Emphasis added).

“The energies of God are divine energies. They too are God, but without being His essence. They are God, and therefore they can deify man. If the energies of God were not divine and uncreated, they would not be God and so they would not be able to deify us, to unite us with God” (Abbott of the Holy Monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos).

Orthodox Theosis More Than Beatific Vision

“The doctrine of beatific vision, borrowed by Augustine of Hippo from the Neo-Platonists, whereby man’s destiny is to become completely happy in the possession of the vision of the divine essence, is unknown to the Orthodox Patristic tradition” (John S. Romanides).

“[T]he Orthodox hope of salvation in its broadest sense is more than hope of a divine sentence of ‘not guilty’ or even of a beatific vision; it is `human participation in the being of God . . . a total sharing in the Triune life.’ . . . Created in the image of God, human beings are called to become like God by realizing the potential for ontological sharing in the life of God” (Ross Aden).

Deification: Simultaneously Human and Unoriginate and Eternal

“The uncreated and imperishable grace of God dwelling in man renders him, too, imperishable, eternal and unoriginate. These bold terms, used to describe the man who through God’s grace is regenerate, are not met with for the first time in [Gregory] Palamas; Maximus the Confessor had already used the same words to characterize the man who is alive in Christ and who is guided by His grace. They do not, of course, alter the basic distinction between man and God as created and Creator, but they express the truth of the genuine regeneration as experienced by the man who enters into communion with the divinizing grace, which makes him a god in every respect "save identity of essence”" (Mantzaridis).

“He who achieves deification is fittingly defined by both: he is on the one hand unoriginate, eternal, and heavenly, as we heard just above, on account of the uncreated grace that eternally derives from the Eternal God; he is on the other a new creation and a new man and things similar to these, on account of himself and his own nature” (Gregory Palamas).

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[ricko]

Okay good. I was a little worried about that, because I really thought that was a strange idea, thanks for clarifying. See - that’s why this forum is great, because it dispels misconceptions. I think there is a lot of misinformation spread about Mormons from untrustworthy sources.

Christine, Mormons will not come out and say the truth and our friend is being less than honest. I know you don’t know much about their church and so do they. You’re like a babe in the woods to them. Here is some actual quotes from one of their leaders, judge for yourself:

"As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.’’

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!..It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God…yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible…” (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17)

“He [God] is our Father–the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being;” (Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333)

“You and I–what helpless creatures are we! Such limited power we have, and how little can we control the wind and the waves and the storms! We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were stated by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: ‘As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.’” (President Spencer W. Kimball in “Our Great Potential” from the April 1977 Priesthood Session of General Conference)

Christine, please be careful with these people. They may seem nice and that may be but remember they teach a false gospel as our bible warned us about.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hi RebeccaJ!

Not that it matters, but Jordan was an ordained Dominican priest when he wrote his thesis.

No, it doesn’t matter.

I’m sorry, I think you have missed the point. I wasn’t comparing the Catholic understanding of theosis to Mormon understanding of exaltation. I was comparing Orthodox understanding of theosis to Mormon exaltation. Vajda used as his source the writings of Greek Church Fathers and how 20th century Orthodox theologians understand theosis. Vajda references are there for you to check. He isn’t speculating, neither is he providing his opinion.

I can assure you that theosis is closer to the beatific vision than Mormon exaltation. Perhaps you can take your ideas over to the Eastern Catholic forum and ask there.

 

[Finrock]

Good evening ricko! How have you been? Good I hope.

Christine, Mormons will not come out and say the truth and our friend is being less than honest. I know you don’t know much about their church and so do they. You’re like a babe in the woods to them. Here is some actual quotes from one of their leaders, judge for yourself:

I think the reality is that Mormons don’t always agree with what our critics think our doctrine is. There was nothing dishonest in my post. If this question was dogmatically clear, I would provide a dogmatically clear answer. But, speculation abounds in this area of Mormon theology. You’ll likely get several different answers from LDS posters on this forum alone.

In general, you will find two interpretations in Mormonism about what the statements you quoted mean.

1. God the Father was once a mortal man but remained a God just as Jesus Christ did and in the same way as Jesus did during mortality, God the Father progressed and was exalted and glorified.
2. God the Father was once a mortal man and was not always God.

Philosophically Mormon theology allows for both. The position that I believe finds stronger scriptural support is position 1. It’s the position I would advocate. I believe that it is the position Gordon B. Hinckley advocated. Other Mormons disagree. As I explained to Christine77, there is no consensus on this point. You seem to advocate position 2. For a critic, position 2 does have more shock value.

The most important perspective to keep in mind in all of this, is that as far as Mormons are concerned, God the Father is the God of everything we know and understand. Whatever else may be, as far as we (the human race) are concerned, God is infinite, eternal, and everlasting. He is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He is fully in control of all things. He reigns supreme. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. We worship Him only. We rely on Him only. He is God.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

P.S.
ricko, “these people” are humans just as you are. We aren’t demons or “wolf in sheep clothing”. We won’t steal your souls and cause you to burn in hell. It’s OK, you can relax.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Finrock, perhaps you may find this thread (Theosis and Theopoiesis), over at the Eastern Catholic forum, to be towards your interest in theosis.

 

[swplan76]

Okay good. I was a little worried about that, because I really thought that was a strange idea, thanks for clarifying. See - that’s why this forum is great, because it dispels misconceptions. I think there is a lot of misinformation spread about Mormons from untrustworthy sources.

I don’t really see how it dispels misinformation… The point is still that LDS believe that God is and was a man. He is a glorified exalted man. The idea is that he went through a process from being just a man, to becoming God.

Finrock is saying that it isn’t totally clear… but if LDS are going to say that God was a man who has been glorified and exalted, clearly he has not always been the God He is in our current age. In their way of thinking, God was at one point just a human, like you and me. Otherwise, why make that point, that He has been exalted and glorified - it would be pointless to even bring that up. What could possibly be gained from it if He has always been superior, exalted and glorified, matchless?

…

 

[ParkerD]

I don’t really see how it dispels misinformation… The point is still that LDS believe that God is and was a man. He is a glorified exalted man. The idea is that he went through a process from being just a man, to becoming God.

Finrock is saying that it isn’t totally clear… but if LDS are going to say that God was a man who has been glorified and exalted, clearly he has not always been the God He is in our current age. In their way of thinking, God was at one point just a human, like you and me. Otherwise, why make that point, that He has been exalted and glorified - it would be pointless to even bring that up. What could possibly be gained from it if He has always been superior, exalted and glorified, matchless?

…

swplan,
I have followed the comments here, and want to add my agreement with Finrock and to explain in a way that hopefully you do not misunderstand: the Son of God is an exalted sinless Man of Holiness, who followed His Father. It is not pointless to bring that up. It is basic to understanding the atonement and the love Christ has for us to bring that up. Christ’s suffering and death provides the way whereby those who are unworthy to inherit an exaltation can inherit an exaltation, a throne with Him, and become a joint heir with Him just as He sits on a throne at the right hand of His Father. The Father has always been “superior” in absolutely every way, and always will be.

 

[RebeccaJ]

swplan,
I have followed the comments here, and want to add my agreement with Finrock and to explain in a way that hopefully you do not misunderstand: the Son of God is an exalted sinless Man of Holiness, who followed His Father. It is not pointless to bring that up. It is basic to understanding the atonement and the love Christ has for us to bring that up. Christ’s suffering and death provides the way whereby those who are unworthy to inherit an exaltation can inherit an exaltation, a throne with Him, and become a joint heir with Him just as He sits on a throne at the right hand of His Father. The Father has always been “superior” in absolutely every way, and always will be.

Yes, your god is created and changes.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Christine, Mormons will not come out and say the truth and our friend is being less than honest. I know you don’t know much about their church and so do they. You’re like a babe in the woods to them. Here is some actual quotes from one of their leaders, judge for yourself:

"As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.’’

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!..It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God…yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible…” (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17)

“He [God] is our Father–the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being;” (Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333)

“You and I–what helpless creatures are we! Such limited power we have, and how little can we control the wind and the waves and the storms! We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were stated by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: ‘As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.’” (President Spencer W. Kimball in “Our Great Potential” from the April 1977 Priesthood Session of General Conference)

Christine, please be careful with these people. They may seem nice and that may be but remember they teach a false gospel as our bible warned us about.

I don’t think “these people” are any different than you or I! I think Finrock was being very honest in explaining that while Mormons have these doctrines, most Mormons don’t think of God that way. They think of God as being infinite and eternal just like we do.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t think “these people” are any different than you or I! I think Finrock was being very honest in explaining that while Mormons have these doctrines, most Mormons don’t think of God that way. They think of God as being infinite and eternal just like we do.

The Holy Spirit brings all to Truth. Thanks be to God.

 

[ricko]

God bless all you Mormons, you certainly need all of our prayers and blessings from God (the ONE true God).

What a shaky foundation the LDS church is built on. Your teachers clearly taught that god (I use small ‘g’ cause we’re not talking about the true god) was a man. Now, I guess because the teaching is so outrageous, y’all are starting to backpedal. Eventually the LDS will totally drop that teaching through a “Revelation” :whacky: from one of your prophets as it is becoming a hot potato.

Right now you are twisting what your own leaders have clearly stated just like you do scripture and changing meanings of words straight out of the dictionary.

No honor at all guys. How can there be when the whole LDS church is based on a lie. You have great faith but easily misled like little children. You should give up Joseph Smith and become true Christians for the sake of your souls.

 

[Catholic20064]

An interesting insight about the publication of the Book of Mormon can be found in the reaction of the editor of the Cleaveland Herald of Nov. 25, 1830:

This bible is closed by two certificates commending the work; to the first is attached the name of Oliver Cowdry and two other persons, and to the last are eight names, among which are those of the father and two brothers of the reputed author.

On reading the name of Oliver Cowdry, in support of the divine authenticity of the work, whatever faith we might have been inspired with on reading the certificate, was banished, for we had known Cowdry some seven or eight years ago, when he was a dabbler in the art of Printing, and principally occupied in writing and printing pamphlets, with which, as a pedestrian Pedlar, he visited the towns and villages of western New York and Canada, and the only opinion we have of the origin of this Golden Bible, is that Mr. Cowdry and Mr. Smith the reputed author, have taken the old Bible to keep up a train of circumstances, and by altering names and language have produced the string of Jargon called the “Book of Mormon,” with the intention of making mon[e]y by the sale of their Books; and being aware they would not sell unless an excitement and curiosity could be raised in the public mind, have therefore sent out twelve Apostles to promulgate its doctrines, several of whom are in this vicinity expounding its mysteries and baptising converts to its principles, whose labors, we understand are principally blest among the superstitious and ignorant or hypocritical, presenting a new proof that all fools are not dead, and knavery in any garb may, yet find votaries.

More information about this article can be found here:

sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/OH/miscohio.htm#112530

 

[Finrock]

Good day RebeccaJ (you like that little rhyme?)! I trust all is well with you today?

Finrock, perhaps you may find this thread (Theosis and Theopoiesis), over at the Eastern Catholic forum, to be towards your interest in theosis.

Thank you for providing the link and thanks for looking out. I think I’ve perused that thread before.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[Finrock]

Hello again!

Yes, your god is created and changes.

We Mormons understand that all persons that exist are fundamentally intelligences. Intelligence cannot be created or destroyed. It exist by a self-existing principle. God is an intelligence. The greatest of all, in fact! This means that whatever the case may be in regards to God the Father’s godhood, it is never true in Mormonism that God was created ex nihilo, or rather that He did not exist at some point. God is eternal.

Nor does God change, at least not in any of His perfections or Godly attributes. But, neither do we believe God is passionless. His feelings can change. He can feel sorrow for the sinfulness of His children, for instance. Also, because we believe God is anthropomorphic, He can change locations in space and time. Or change the position of His hand or foot, etc. So, in that sense, God can change.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[ricko]

Joseph Smith, who originally dictated the words of the Book of Mormon, later rejected its teaching that God is “unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity” (Moroni 8:18). Toward the close of his life, as recorded in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, he announced, “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea … he was once a man like us” (p. 345).

Again, the Book of Mormon declares there are only two destinies for mankind: eternal happiness or eternal misery. Those who die rejecting Christ receive eternal torment, with no second chance after death. They are “cast into fire, from whence there is no return” and “must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire” (III Nephi 27:11-17; Mosiah 3:24-27; II Nephi 28:22-23; Alma 34:32-35). By contrast, Mormonism today believes nearly everyone will enjoy some degree of glory, and even those who have died can be rescued from the “prison house” when the living perform proxy baptisms for them.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Joseph Smith, who originally dictated the words of the Book of Mormon, later rejected its teaching that God is “unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity” (Moroni 8:18). Toward the close of his life, as recorded in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, he announced, “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea … he was once a man like us” (p. 345).

Again, the Book of Mormon declares there are only two destinies for mankind: eternal happiness or eternal misery. Those who die rejecting Christ receive eternal torment, with no second chance after death. They are “cast into fire, from whence there is no return” and “must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire” (III Nephi 27:11-17; Mosiah 3:24-27; II Nephi 28:22-23; Alma 34:32-35). By contrast, Mormonism today believes nearly everyone will enjoy some degree of glory, and even those who have died can be rescued from the “prison house” when the living perform proxy baptisms for them.

So they’ve changed. Good! Why do you keep holding them to old standards? Even the Catholic Church changes. Look at our Mass, look at the sale of indulgences, etc. I think they are changing in a good direction. Not all of our popes were good people, and what they said was not infallible.