What is the Catholic Church?

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The Catholic Church teaches that there is NO salvation outside the herself. I’ve also heard that Protestants (not members of the Catholic Church) CAN have salvation. Can someone please explain this confusing dogma and explain why it even matters to be Catholic?
 
The Catholic Church teaches that there is NO salvation outside the herself. I’ve also heard that Protestants (not members of the Catholic Church) CAN have salvation. Can someone please explain this confusing dogma and explain why it even matters to be Catholic?
The Catholic Church encompasses: every human being in Heaven; every human being in Purgatory; and every human being who is in full or partial communion with the Bishop of Rome, in his role as the Successor of Peter, who was appointed by Jesus Christ to be the Chief Shepherd of the Church, together with his successors. (John 21:15-19; Matthew 16:18-19)

Those who are saved, are saved by means of the Church - even if at the time they don’t happen to be aware of it.
 
… in full or partial communion with the Bishop of Rome, in his role as the Successor of Peter…
In full communion means you accept all that he teaches and partial communion would be through baptism. And full communion means you’re Catholic and partial communion means any other Christian. So does that mean you only have to be a Christian by believing in Christ and being baptized to be saved? Does it matter to be Catholic?
 
In full communion means you accept all that he teaches and partial communion would be through baptism. And full communion means you’re Catholic and partial communion means any other Christian. So does that mean you only have to be a Christian by believing in Christ and being baptized to be saved? Does it matter to be Catholic?
Yes, it matters. Catholics in full communion have access to the Sacraments, so that if they commit sin, they can go to Confession, and they can increase in grace to be able to resist temptation, by receiving Holy Communion.
 
Paragraph 1129 of the Catechism says the sacraments are necessary for salvation. Will God send the Protestant man to Hell if he commits a mortal sin, because he most likely won’t believe in Confession? Or when Christ says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood or we have no life in us, do Protestants not have life in them because they don’t have a valid Eucharist (or even believe it’s His flesh)?
 
Paragraph 1129 of the Catechism says the sacraments are necessary for salvation. Will God send the Protestant man to Hell if he commits a mortal sin, because he most likely won’t believe in Confession? Or when Christ says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood or we have no life in us, do Protestants not have life in them because they don’t have a valid Eucharist (or even believe it’s His flesh)?
The only possible answer is that God is beyond the Sacraments, and can save anybody He wants to save.

If I were a Protestant who knew of the need for the Sacraments, though, I wouldn’t be laying bets that God is going to perform a miracle that’s all about me - I’d convert (which is, in fact, what I did, when I was a Protestant who found out about the need for the Sacraments).
 
So is what your saying is when something is revealed to someone that doesn’t have the complete truth, they must accept it and if it hasn’t been revealed to them, then God might pardon them for their ignorance?
 
=ajpirc;7790116]The Catholic Church teaches that there is NO salvation outside the herself. I’ve also heard that Protestants (not members of the Catholic Church) CAN have salvation. Can someone please explain this confusing dogma and explain why it even matters to be Catholic?
While your initial understanding is correctly worded; the verbage used does not fully explain the position of the CC.

Before sharing some Catholic catechism teachings with you; allow me to briefy explain our position.

Because intended to; and factualy did, found only 1 Faith, 1 Church; 1 set of beliefs; and that the NT has over 100 references to ONLY One Church; logically because salvation comes from and through Christ; the CC being HIS CHURCH; all salvation must literally flow through Her. These vrs. give evidence of Only One Church: Begaining with Mt. 16:19 where Christ gives to Peter "The [all of] the Key’s to the kingdom of heaven, Mt. 28: 19-20 where issues the MANDATE to Peter and Apostles to teach ALL to ALL of the Earth and here where Christ formally institutes His 1 Church.

**Jn.20: 19-22 ** "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. **As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” **And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”

Hilighted are the key words: Christ herein bestows the same powers unto His Apostles and Church as the Father shared with His Son Jesus… So the Church has the 'Power of God" The as further evidence look at Jn.14:16-17 [Holy Spirit FOREVER] and Jn.17; 15-19 [Christ offers HIMSELF as warranty of her inability to Teach in error on Faith Beleifs and Morals].

**Eph. 4: 1-7 “**I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [WHICH MEANS 1 CHURCH] and 1 Spirit, just as you were called to the 1 hope that belongs to your call, 1 Lord, 1 faith, [Meaning only 1 set of beliefs] 1 baptism, 1 God and Father of us all,.

**Eph. 2: 18-22 **“ for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. “

Salvation through the CC

868 The Church is catholic: she proclaims the fullness of the faith. She bears in herself and administers the totality of the means of salvation. She is sent out to all peoples. She speaks to all men. She encompasses all times. She is “missionary of her very nature” (AG 2).

**819 “**Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

816
“The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.”

The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: “For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God.”

**846 **How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

My friend I hope this very broef explaination surfices, if not PM me…

God Bless,
Pat
 
Christ said: "As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remain on the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for without me you can do nothing.

If anyone does not abide in me, he shall be cast outside as the branch and wither; and they shall gather them up and cast them into the fire, and they shall burn" (John 15:4-6).

The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.

God Bless, Gary
 
Are Protestant ecclessial communities broken off branches or are they still attached, because the CCC says they are in communion once after baptism?
 
Are Protestant ecclessial communities broken off branches or are they still attached, because the CCC says they are in communion once after baptism?
The possibility of salvation is not the same thing as the likelihood of salvation.

A Catholic who is in a state of grace and partaking regularly of the Sacraments is likely to be saved.

A Protestant of good will can possibly be saved. Do you see the difference?

If a Protestant were to never commit any kind of mortal sin after his baptism, he could be saved. The likelihood of such a thing happening, though, is extremely remote, unless they were baptized as infants, and died before the age of seven.
 
Are Protestant ecclessial communities broken off branches or are they still attached, because the CCC says they are in communion once after baptism?
When you say in “full communion” with Rome. Then yes should this be the case they are in communion with Rome. For example Angelicans seek full communion because they believe its the “right” path to take. If you are not in Full Communion with Rome then you are not in full communion with Rome. Most who consider themselves Christians for example believe in the Incarnate and Baptism in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. While this makes them Christians it doesn’t make them in full communion with Rome.

google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCMQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholic.org%2Finternational%2Finternational_story.php%3Fid%3D34126&ei=HPyyTZODMpO2tgflrK3qDg&usg=AFQjCNGuXd3VEyjFerkIvEhGSUwFlceEmQ

The Catechism quotes Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium on this subject: “Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation…. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or remain in it. This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and His Church” (nn. 846-847).

The Catechism goes on to quote Vatican II’s teaching on what is known as Baptism of desire: “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation” (n. 847).

Nonetheless in the age of the Super Information Highway who on earth today is not aware of the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ? If you are not part of the body then you are defined as a living cell existing outside the body. Not in communion with the body. Thus if your in Full Communion with the Church then you are part of the body.

God Bless, Gary
 
The possibility of salvation is not the same thing as the likelihood of salvation.

A Catholic who is in a state of grace and partaking regularly of the Sacraments is likely to be saved.

A Protestant of good will can possibly be saved. Do you see the difference?

If a Protestant were to never commit any kind of mortal sin after his baptism, he could be saved. The likelihood of such a thing happening, though, is extremely remote, unless they were baptized as infants, and died before the age of seven.
If I may, I’d like to incorporate several questions/points in one post. If this is not appropriate, I hope someone will correct me and direct me in the right direction.
  1. Firstly, what about the Orthodox? Where do they fit in with all of this?
  2. It’s has been said by both Catholic and Orthodox that salvation is only in the Church. Yet, both claim to be the Church. If that is the case, why won’t the Orthodox allow Catholics to receive sacraments in Orthodox churches, as Catholics will allow Orthodox? (And, please, let’s not let this devolve into yet another argument about the filioque, o.k. 👍?)
  3. If it is not the case that both Catholic and Orthodox are both part of the One Church, that would make one of them “wrong”, so to speak, and subject to the “possibility” of salvation rather than the “likelihood” of salvation. Is this the work of a God Who is Mercy, Himself?
There’s more, but that’s probably enough for now :).

God Bless!
 
The possibility of salvation is not the same thing as the likelihood of salvation.

A Catholic who is in a state of grace and partaking regularly of the Sacraments is likely to be saved.

A Protestant of good will can possibly be saved. Do you see the difference?

If a Protestant were to never commit any kind of mortal sin after his baptism, he could be saved. The likelihood of such a thing happening, though, is extremely remote, unless they were baptized as infants, and died before the age of seven.
So the possibility would be the Protestant having “the door open for him.” The likelihood would be the Catholic “walking toward and through the door.” Would this be right?
 
So the possibility would be the Protestant having “the door open for him.” The likelihood would be the Catholic “walking toward and through the door.” Would this be right?
I like the metaphor. Yes, I think this is right. 🙂
 
I’ve got this dogma stuck in my head so I just created another metaphor to help me understand it:

Two people (1 Catholic & 1 Protestant) are born (baptized) of the same mother (the Church). One person (Protestant) runs away from home. The other (Catholic) stays home. The one at home receives nurturing and education from the mother (Sacraments and teaching from the Church). The runaway is told lies by his friends and isn’t living a healthy life through drugs (Sola scriptura/fide and sin/lack of grace). Now both people have the same mother and she loved each (the Church through baptism) except one didn’t want her love and the other saw that he needed her love for the rest of her life (Eternal life from the gifts of the Church). Once the two people were about 25, one of them (Catholic) was living a successful life (Heaven) and the other (Protestant) is helped by his loving mother and put into rehabilitation to get clean (Purgatory). After he is drug free, he lives a successful life (Heaven). Both people were given successful lives by the love of the mother (grace through the Church) even if the one (Protestant) was never living with her (not in full communion).

This is how I think of it, I don’t know if it’s right, but it makes pretty good sense (to me at least). Maybe the Church could use it to explain the dogma, I don’t know. I hope you understand it. 😃

Happy Easter,
Austin J. Pirc
 
=ajpirc;7790606]Are Protestant ecclesial communities broken off branches or are they still attached, because the CCC says they are in communion once after baptism?
No my dear friend, I don’t think that is the actual message. Because of a common Baptism, and a common belief in the Trinity and because of similar Moral understandings; it MIGHT be possible for Protestants to be saved. IF, IF it is possible; that salvation flows naturally and consistently and only through the CC.

**819 “**Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

816 “The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.”

The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

**1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. **Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

Incorporation “INTO CHRIST” in this application literally Means Christ; NOT Christ Church. This affirmed in the following teaching: PJM

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: “For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be **called Christians, **and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.” “Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn.”

They have the right to be called “Christians” BUT NOT “catholics” with the right granted in “full-communion” which denotes holding **ALL OF THE SAME FAITH BELIEFS! **. Wish it were, but were not there yet.

GOD BLESS and a JOYOUS EASTER,
Pat
 
Is this then, speaking metaphorically, the Catholic Church is a city and Protestants are just in its outskirts? What does incorporated into Christ mean; wouldn’t this be the Catholic Church?
 
Is this then, speaking metaphorically, the Catholic Church is a city and Protestants are just in its outskirts? What does incorporated into Christ mean; wouldn’t this be the Catholic Church?
The Church (that which was given to Peter and continues to be led by Peter’s successors; the Pope) is Christ’s body here on earth. If you are not in full communion with the Pope, then you are not fully part of the body.

Your analogy about the kid that ran away from home is dead on, I think.

With your city analogy, I think if we say that the Church is the city, then the Protestants are citizens who have gone up into the mountains to leave behind all of the amenities of the city (abundant clean water, soap, warm well-kept houses, being able to buy food from the store using money earned from a regular, well-paying job) to try to make it on their own. They don’t bathe with soap, or even at all in many cases (no baptism or Confirmation), they only acquire food once every three months and have to survive on that for the whole three months (Eucharist); and the food isn’t very nourishing (no Real Presence) so they get sick very easily, and they mostly live out in the cold (no Sacraments of Holy Orders or Marriage). And they have no access to hospitals, so if they get badly injured or really sick, they just die (no Sacrament of Anointing).

The very tough ones can survive; the smarter ones return to the city and get regular jobs; the rest of them just die really young.
 
The possibility of salvation is not the same thing as the likelihood of salvation.

A Catholic who is in a state of grace and partaking regularly of the Sacraments is likely to be saved.

A Protestant of good will can possibly be saved. Do you see the difference?

If a Protestant were to never commit any kind of mortal sin after his baptism, he could be saved. The likelihood of such a thing happening, though, is extremely remote, unless they were baptized as infants, and died before the age of seven.
Are you saying that the chance of a Protestant being saved practically zero? I don’t think that’s fair. As with anyone who haven’t heard of the Gospel yet, I do think God could show him mercy and save him. But I’m not the one to decide that, it’s all up to God who he chooses to save. Likewise I believe that many Christians in other churches than the Catholic Church may be saved, if it is that they haven’t learned about the Catholic Church yet. But know that I’ve started to investigate the Catholic Church, I’m convinced that I’d be a huge sin if I don’t convert now that God has revealed the whole Truth for me.

Logically, anyone who seeks Him with all of his heart should find the Truth, and likewise the true Church, if he’s open for the holy Spirit to lead him on his journey.

If someone tells you a lie and you believe it, is it your fault if you fail? Somehow I think it depends on how much you really want to know the Truth, how eager you are to find it, and the circumstances (e.g. people, media) given by God to make you able find it.
 
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