What is the Catholic gospel message?

[Mick_Taylor]

I agreed with all you wrote MDK, but I think you went a bit too far in saying that those believers in Christ who are not Catholic are not authentically Christian. It would be better to say, as the Church does, that they are in imperfect union with Christ’s Church. Imperfect because they are separated from the Eucharist (except the Orthodox, of course, and any others the Church recognizes as having a valid priesthood). But in union through their trinitarian baptism (if done with the proper matter and same intent as the Church).

I take note, Mick, that you haven’t made many replies to our posts. I do hope it’s not because we aren’t being helpful to your inquiry. Please let us know what isn’t clear to you and why.

Hi Della,

I’m sort of perplexed at the responses I’ve seen thus far. Only a few of the responses have touched on exactly WHAT the good news is!

 

[Mick_Taylor]

Not sure if its been asked already, but just for clarifcation, in your experience, what do you think the Catholic gospel message is?

From my limited experience here at CAF, I would say that most of the Catholics here would say that the good news (the gospel) is that Jesus founded the Catholic Church, and that the CC is what we need for correct doctrine and for our salvation.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

That there is One Christ and in Him lies all Hope.

Remember the Last Supper as He said to do.

Remember the Cross and what He did.

Remember He rose again from the dead.

There is only one church, whoever you are and whatever you believe, or don’t believe.

He is Coming Again.

Hi Doxiemom,

Well said!

 

[Mick_Taylor]

High M.T. In my own words it’s a written record of God’s incredible love story to man by becoming man Himself; God enduring our whacky ways:whacky:.:yup:

Peace and God bless onenow1

Hi onenow1,

I agree. God’s love is beyond my comprehension!

 

[Mick_Taylor]

What happens when individuals don’t respond to His “call”?
What is not clear in this paragraph that makes you state that “This doesn’t make much sense to me”?

Hi davidv,

The point that I was responding to in the quote you had posted from the CCC is that it would be a very different gospel if God’s plan and intention is that ALL of mankind would be saved. IMO, the bad news–the fall of mankind into rebellion against God, and the just condemnation that resulted from the fall, is absolutely necessary in order to understand and appreciate the good news.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

So you do not believe that we have “Free Will”? … You do not believe that individual persons ccan turn towards God [Love] or towards Satan [Sin]?

No, I believe that before Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit they had free will, but the result of the first sin was a corrupted human nature that is hostile to God and enslaved to sin.

Do you believe that God "predestined’ some people for damnation and some for salvation?

Yes, I believe that the bible teaches predestination. God eternally wills to save some and to leave others in their sin and rebellion. God’s mercy and grace is not equally distributed to all souls. The God of the bible is free to have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and He will harden those whom He will harden.

Do you believe that everyone is going to heaven?
Or the opposite - Everyone is going to hell?

No, the bible teaches that not everyone is going to heaven, and not everyone is going to hell. It is based upon the will of God.

I believe the answer was clearly presented - Good created us out of Love. God desires that we love Him “Freely” in return - not coerced - that we choose to be in relationship with Him. God’s love is perfect, God’s promises are everlasting, God’s ability to foregive infinate … all that is left for us is to say “Yes” to God - and keep saying that “Yes” - returning to God when we fail … That is the Gospel message, that is why Jesus came into the world to Redeem its fallen nature.

So perhaps we need to ask you … What does the Good News message to you?

I agree that God desires that we love Him “Freely” in return - not coerced. But it seems to me that since “the sinful mind is hostile to God” as Scripture says, unregenerate people cannot love God because they WILL NOT love God. We cannot bring ourselves to do what we will not do. Something needs to change within us before we can love God. Jesus said, “you must be born again.”

 

[Della]

Hi Della,

I’m sort of perplexed at the responses I’ve seen thus far. Only a few of the responses have touched on exactly WHAT the good news is!

So, what do you expect Catholics to say that we aren’t saying?

You mentioned that Jesus said we must be born again. That’s quite right. He did say that. He also said: Mark.16 [16] “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” It puts another complexion on the meaning of the words “born again” because Jesus said: John.3 [5] Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Belief is great, but it must be accompanied by baptism. Why? Because Jesus commanded it. And if Jesus commanded it, baptism is much more than a mere symbol of belief but a true sign of an inward grace that indelibly marks the soul. Jesus was quite specific about commanding his Apostles to Matt.28 [19] “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…” Whatever Jesus said, we Catholics believe absolutely.

 

[Della]

Hi Della,

I’m sort of perplexed at the responses I’ve seen thus far. Only a few of the responses have touched on exactly WHAT the good news is!

So, what do you expect Catholics to say that we aren’t saying?

You mentioned that Jesus said we must be born again. That’s quite right. He did say that. He also said: Mark.16 [16] “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” It puts another complexion on the meaning of the words “born again” because: John.3 [5] Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Belief is great, but it must be accompanied by baptism. Why? Because Jesus commanded it. And if Jesus commanded it, baptism is much more than a mere symbol of belief but a true sign of an inward grace that indelibly marks the soul. Jesus was quite specific about commanding his Apostles to: Matt.28 [19] “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…” Whatever Jesus said, we Catholics believe absolutely.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

So, what do you expect Catholics to say that we aren’t saying?

You mentioned that Jesus said we must be born again. That’s quite right. He did say that. He also said: Mark.16 [16] “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” It puts another complexion on the meaning of the words “born again” because: John.3 [5] Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Belief is great, but it must be accompanied by baptism. Why? Because Jesus commanded it. And if Jesus commanded it, baptism is much more than a mere symbol of belief but a true sign of an inward grace that indelibly marks the soul. Jesus was quite specific about commanding his Apostles to: Matt.28 [19] “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…” Whatever Jesus said, we Catholics believe absolutely.

I believe that everything that God commands of me is law in God’s view, which is the only viewpoint that really matters!

If you are saying that baptism in water is necessary for a person to be saved then I would object on the grounds that Scripture tells us that by observing the law no one will be justified.

Gal.2:15-16 We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Rom. 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

 

[Della]

I believe that everything that God commands of me is law in God’s view, which is the only viewpoint that really matters!

If you are saying that baptism in water is necessary for a person to be saved then I would object on the grounds that Scripture tells us that by observing the law no one will be justified.

Gal.2:15-16 We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Rom. 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

The verses you cited have nothing to do with obeying Christ’s command that all be baptized. The Law Paul is discussing is the Levitical Law that Christ fulfilled. We are bound by the commands of Christ, which are the New Covenant of Love, thus we must take him at his word and baptize in water as he told us to. To confuse the Law of Love with the Old Covenant negates the clear command of Christ.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

The verses you cited have nothing to do with obeying Christ’s command that all be baptized. The Law Paul is discussing is the Levitical Law that Christ fulfilled. We are bound by the commands of Christ, which are the New Covenant of Love, thus we must take him at his word and baptize in water as he told us to. To confuse the Law of Love with the Old Covenant negates the clear command of Christ.

Hi Della,

Where in the context of the two verses I cited does Paul tell us that he is discussing the Levitical Law only? What does “Law of Love” have to do with getting baptized in water? I don’t understand why we can’t just take the verses to mean what they seem to mean: that no one is justified by obedience to the law?

 

[Della]

Hi Della,

Where in the context of the two verses I cited does Paul tell us that he is discussing the Levitical Law only? What does “Law of Love” have to do with getting baptized in water? I don’t understand why we can’t just take the verses to mean what they seem to mean: that no one is justified by obedience to the law?

Paul was fending off a group of people called the Judaizers. I learned about them and their battle with Paul in an Assemblies of God Bible college as a part of earning my B. A. in Bible and religious education there. These Judaizers were telling newly baptized Christians their men needed to be circumcised and they all had to keep the Levitical Laws. It’s why Paul wrote about eating meat offered to idols, for example. So, Paul wasn’t talking about the sacraments Jesus established, such as baptism, but rather the idea that Christians had to also keep all the Levitical Laws that Jesus fulfilled. It’s really a fascinating study–one I’m glad I had even before I became a Catholic because it helped me understand the difference between what Paul was teaching, and perhaps as importantly, what he wasn’t.

 

[fhansen]

We, like Jesus, are to ultimately fulfill the Law, but now by the Spirit, not by the flesh-not as slaves to a concept of holiness, attempting to put on an outward show, but as those who’ve truly come to love God with their whole heart, soul, mind and strength and their neighbor as themselves. We are to be perfect as our Father is perfect (no sinners will enter heaven) but this is impossible for us without His help-without His grace-afforded to us by faith in Him- having a heart which cries out Abba, Father. This is the beginning. Baptism is the first act or step because Jesus and His Church say so. All of this is a process of conversion-true change-effected by grace but not without our cooperation-the goal of which is to end up fully justified/sanctified/perfected in love.

 

[tptram]

What is the Catholic gospel…

to quote Fr Corapi “…not what! Who is the Gospel: Jesus Christ!”

Jesus is the Good News.

Tak

 

[CoachSTL]

The word “gospel” means “good news”. What is the Catholic gospel in your opinion?

The Catholic gospel is everything that Jesus taught and did. For every thing that He taught and did, He commanded the Apostles to teach and do as well. They were sent by Him to preach the Gospel, which was his life and revelation, and they were commanded to send others as successors.

The Catholic gospel is catholic, meaning that it is unifying as Christ is unifying to everyone.

 

[drtimstephens]

Paul was fending off a group of people called the Judaizers. I learned about them and their battle with Paul in an Assemblies of God Bible college as a part of earning my B. A. in Bible and religious education there. These Judaizers were telling newly baptized Christians their men needed to be circumcised and they all had to keep the Levitical Laws. It’s why Paul wrote about eating meat offered to idols, for example. So, Paul wasn’t talking about the sacraments Jesus established, such as baptism, but rather the idea that Christians had to also keep all the Levitical Laws that Jesus fulfilled. It’s really a fascinating study–one I’m glad I had even before I became a Catholic because it helped me understand the difference between what Paul was teaching, and perhaps as importantly, what he wasn’t.

To say that when Paul speaks of the law, he’s referring to Levitical laws is false.
If we continue to read from Romans 3, into Romans 4 Paul starts to talk about Abraham and how he was justified by faith, not of works (not of the law). Abraham predates the Mosaic/Levitical laws and so Paul is NOT just speaking of those laws but any religious practice that man does to try and earn favor with God.

We are justified by faith, given to us by God and then good works and obedience follows out of a love for Him (Eph 2:8-10).

And to the original topic (from a non-catholic)… the gospel message:
John 3:16 plain and simple. No additives needed, no organized religion, rites or rituals.

God loved us first. Salvation is completely an act of God, and there is one mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus. To claim salvation through any other (including the Catholic Church) is a false gospel.

 

[Della]

We, like Jesus, are to ultimately fulfill the Law, but now by the Spirit, not by the flesh-not as slaves to a concept of holiness, attempting to put on an outward show, but as those who’ve truly come to love God with their whole heart, soul, mind and strength and their neighbor as themselves. We are to be perfect as our Father is perfect (no sinners will enter heaven) but this is impossible for us without His help-without His grace-afforded to us by faith in Him- having a heart which cries out Abba, Father. This is the beginning. Baptism is the first act or step because Jesus and His Church say so. All of this is a process of conversion-true change-effected by grace but not without our cooperation-the goal of which is to end up fully justified/sanctified/perfected in love.

Beautifully put! Paul is talking about being transformed in Christ–something that couldn’t be done by the best of believers under the Levitical Law. Baptism removes the stain of original sin and restores the life of grace to our souls making it possible for us to do more than keep the Law, but to have the Law integrated into our very being.

 

[drtimstephens]

We, like Jesus, are to ultimately fulfill the Law, but now by the Spirit, not by the flesh-not as slaves to a concept of holiness, attempting to put on an outward show, but as those who’ve truly come to love God with their whole heart, soul, mind and strength and their neighbor as themselves. We are to be perfect as our Father is perfect (no sinners will enter heaven) but this is impossible for us without His help-without His grace-afforded to us by faith in Him- having a heart which cries out Abba, Father. This is the beginning. Baptism is the first act or step because Jesus and His Church say so. All of this is a process of conversion-true change-effected by grace but not without our cooperation-the goal of which is to end up fully justified/sanctified/perfected in love.

Beautifully put! Paul is talking about being transformed in Christ–something that couldn’t be done by the best of believers under the Levitical Law. Baptism removes the stain of original sin and restores the life of grace to our souls making it possible for us to do more than keep the Law, but to have the Law integrated into our very being.

Christ was the fulfillment of the law, the end of the law. We cannot fulfill the law (even in spirit) as we still have a sinful nature bent away from God. We rely solely on Christ’s work as we utterly fail to keep his standards.

Baptism is not the first step, Christ is the beginning and the end. Christ made the first step, he reached out to us first, we do not seek God (Romans 3:11). Baptism does not remove the stain of original sin: as sin entered into the world through one man (Adam - Romans 5:12), sin was defeated by one… Christ. (see end of Romans 5).

What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

 

[fhansen]

Christ was the fulfillment of the law, the end of the law. We cannot fulfill the law (even in spirit) as we still have a sinful nature bent away from God. We rely solely on Christ’s work as we utterly fail to keep his standards.

Baptism is not the first step, Christ is the beginning and the end. Christ made the first step, he reached out to us first, we do not seek God (Romans 3:11). Baptism does not remove the stain of original sin: as sin entered into the world through one man (Adam - Romans 5:12), sin was defeated by one… Christ. (see end of Romans 5).

What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Baptism is the first step for us-after faith, itself, at least- because God calls us all to do our part-not because He needs us to but because He’s in the business of molding people into beings who are one with Him in will. One in will does not mean beings who are still imperfect but have someone elses’ -even Jesus’-righteous merely imputed to them. There would be no purpose for this life and the fall if Gods’ intention all along was to give man standards he could never live up to. The whole point of the Christian faith is that man is, indeed, meant to live up to those standards and nothing less will satisfy God because He wants the best for us but man cannot do it without God. And the fall was exactly that-man trying to be “something” without God. This is why in Catholic teaching mans’ cooperation-his will-is always involved in the process of salvation. And changing our wills-changing* us*-is what this life and redemption is all about.

 

[drtimstephens]

Baptism is the first step for us-after faith, itself, at least- because God calls us all to do our part-not because He needs us to but because He’s in the business of molding people into beings who are one with Him in will. One in will does not mean beings who are still imperfect but have someone elses’ -even Jesus’-righteous merely imputed to them. There would be no purpose for this life and the fall if Gods’ intention all along was to give man standards he could never live up to. The whole point of the Christian faith is that man is, indeed, meant to live up to those standards and nothing less will satisfy God because He wants the best for us but man cannot do it without God. And the fall was exactly that-man trying to be “something” without God. This is why in Catholic teaching mans’ cooperation-his will-is always involved in the process of salvation. And changing our wills-changing* us*-is what this life and redemption is all about.

Some biblical points…

1. God does His part to demonstrate his love (Romans 5:8), putting it on display. We don’t play a part here because ‘we were yet sinners’.
2. Our purpose in life is to glorify God (Rev 4:11). Giving man any credit is taking God’s glory.
3. Our cooperation plays no part in our justification since we have nothing to offer God. Romans 9:15-16 says “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
4. Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us while we were yet sinners (Rom 5:6, Rom 4:24), but there is still a battle between our old and new natures (Rom 6:15-21).

This will be all I say on the matter as I’ve had discussions similar to this that end up to the inevitable conclusion that my authority rests in the Bible, and not the traditions of the Church.

I pray that we all turn to the Bible and seek truth from God and that may He have all the glory.