What is the Catholic gospel message?

[Della]

Some biblical points…

1. God does His part to demonstrate his love (Romans 5:8), putting it on display. We don’t play a part here because ‘we were yet sinners’.
2. Our purpose in life is to glorify God (Rev 4:11). Giving man any credit is taking God’s glory.
3. Our cooperation plays no part in our justification since we have nothing to offer God. Romans 9:15-16 says “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
4. Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us while we were yet sinners (Rom 5:6, Rom 4:24), but there is still a battle between our old and new natures (Rom 6:15-21).

This will be all I say on the matter as I’ve had discussions similar to this that end up to the inevitable conclusion that my authority rests in the Bible, and not the traditions of the Church.

I pray that we all turn to the Bible and seek truth from God and that may He have all the glory.

All you’ve done here is substitute your own tradition and your own interpretation for that of the Church Christ founded. In choosing who I will follow I will follow those commissioned by Christ to decide matters of faith and morals–the Apostles and their successors, the bishops of the Catholic Church. The Bible is the Catholic Church’s book, not just anyone’s to interpret as they see fit. A great book on the topic is: Where We Got the Bible. It gives the history of how the Bible was compiled, safe-guarded, copied, preached and taught, studied and expounded upon by Catholics down through the centuries. Without all the Church did to preserve and teach the Bible you wouldn’t have one in your hands today.

 

[fhansen]

Some biblical points…

1. God does His part to demonstrate his love (Romans 5:8), putting it on display. We don’t play a part here because ‘we were yet sinners’.
2. Our purpose in life is to glorify God (Rev 4:11). Giving man any credit is taking God’s glory.
3. Our cooperation plays no part in our justification since we have nothing to offer God. Romans 9:15-16 says “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
4. Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us while we were yet sinners (Rom 5:6, Rom 4:24), but there is still a battle between our old and new natures (Rom 6:15-21).

This will be all I say on the matter as I’ve had discussions similar to this that end up to the inevitable conclusion that my authority rests in the Bible, and not the traditions of the Church.

I pray that we all turn to the Bible and seek truth from God and that may He have all the glory.

And I’ll do the same, concluding, like Della, that my authority rests on Gods’ Church, the pillar and foundation of truth.
But I thought I’d shift gears a bit while staying on thread and ask yourself or anyone else a question. What do you think it means to give glory to God? Or why would you think we would do so?

 

[swords99]

There is only one true Gospel message: The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the redemption of mankind.

 

[MDK]

I agreed with all you wrote MDK, but I think you went a bit too far in saying that those believers in Christ who are not Catholic are not authentically Christian. It would be better to say, as the Church does, that they are in imperfect union with Christ’s Church. Imperfect because they are separated from the Eucharist (except the Orthodox, of course, and any others the Church recognizes as having a valid priesthood). But in union through their trinitarian baptism (if done with the proper matter and same intent as the Church).

I take note, Mick, that you haven’t made many replies to our posts. I do hope it’s not because we aren’t being helpful to your inquiry. Please let us know what isn’t clear to you and why.

Hello Della. I did not go too far. For instance, I didn’t say he wasn’t or could not be considered a generic Christian or one of the seperated brethren. I said he was not an authentic Christian, as he does not believe in authentic Christianity. I stand by that. I am very familiar with what the Catechism teaches, and there is no conflict in what I said. Those who do not believe what Christ authentically taught are not authentic Christians. Some formally in the Catholic Church are not authentically Christian, because they don’t buy into authentic Christianity, but like the Protestants prefer their own religion the way they want, going through the cafeteria line. Please understand what was written in the way it was meant.

 

[MDK]

Hi Della,

I’m sort of perplexed at the responses I’ve seen thus far. Only a few of the responses have touched on exactly WHAT the good news is!

Mick,
What is perplexing is why you would think or insinuate that the Gospel (Good News of Jesus Christ) is different than Catholic Good News. Your post is born sadly of ignorance of autentic Christianity. I hope now you understand why. Christ built the Catholic Church to teach the Gospel without error. God’s Church (The Catholic Church) has done that for almost 2,000 years now, and no other ecclesial community has. Christ is Head of the Catholic Church, the only Church He established. All other ecclesial communities were established by men who are not also God. They all teach their own version of God’s Good News, none of them having done it without error, because they don’t teach God’s word, but their own interpretations of God’s word. By telling others that God said or taught such and such, when it’s not true, is bearing false witness against God. Is that fair to Him or to anyone? Their version of the Good News is different than God’s. God teaches His Good News throught the Catholic Church, and so how could it be different? It’s not! The God-made Catholic Church has never once taught error in faith and morals binding on all the faithful. None of the man-made “churches” can make that claim honestly.

 

[MDK]

So, what do you expect Catholics to say that we aren’t saying?

You mentioned that Jesus said we must be born again. That’s quite right. He did say that. He also said: Mark.16 [16] “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” It puts another complexion on the meaning of the words “born again” because Jesus said: John.3 [5] Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Belief is great, but it must be accompanied by baptism. Why? Because Jesus commanded it. And if Jesus commanded it, baptism is much more than a mere symbol of belief but a true sign of an inward grace that indelibly marks the soul. Jesus was quite specific about commanding his Apostles to Matt.28 [19] “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…” Whatever Jesus said, we Catholics believe absolutely.

This is what I mean by being or not being authentically Christian. Mick does not believe nor understand what it means to be “born again” due to learning it from inauthentic “authority.” In authentic Christianity, it means Baptism by water and the Spirit. Baptism is the entrance ticket into the Church, and the gateway to all the other Sacraments. All salvation is related to Baptism and the Eucharist.

 

[tobinatorstark]

The word “gospel” means “good news”. What is the Catholic gospel in your opinion?

Christ

 

[swords99]

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, the apostle Paul summarizes the most basic ingredients of the gospel message, namely, the death, burial, resurrection, and appearances of the resurrected Christ.

15:1 Now I want to make clear for you, brothers and sisters, the gospel that I preached to you, that you received and on which you stand, 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 15:3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received—that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, 15:4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures, 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve…

This is the true Gospel.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The word “gospel” means “good news”. What is the Catholic gospel in your opinion?

Christ Crucified.

Why do you think we call it “Good Friday”?

 

[guanophore]

The word “gospel” means “good news”. What is the Catholic gospel in your opinion?

The NT was written by Catholics, and represents 100 % Catholic belief. In it, we read that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us”, and “there is no greater love than this, that a man will lay down his life for his friends”. Very good news!

 

[guanophore]

This doesn’t make much sense to me. If God “created man to make him share in his own blessed life” then it seems to me that we would ALL go to heaven–unless God actually created only some of mankind to share in his own blessed life.

Yes, I can see why this would not make sense to you. You have been heavily contaminated by misunderstandings of predestination created by the Reformers.

God created man in His own image and likeness This means (among other things) that He created man with free will. In His sovereignty, He allows men to choose whether or not they wish to have eternal fellowship with Him, or not. This is true love, the setting totally free of the object of love.

If “He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church”, then it must be possible for all men to recognize which so-called ‘church’ really is GOD’S church.

I believe it is possible to recognize the One True Church. The Apostles gave us four signs, she is One, she is Holy, she is Apostolic, and she is Catholic.

From my limited experience here at CAF, I would say that most of the Catholics here would say that the good news (the gospel) is that Jesus founded the Catholic Church, and that the CC is what we need for correct doctrine and for our salvation.

These things are also true.

No, I believe that before Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit they had free will, but the result of the first sin was a corrupted human nature that is hostile to God and enslaved to sin.

This is consistent with Catholic teaching. What is not consistent, however is the Reformed view of the nature and extent of that corruption. The Apostles taught that man was wounded, yet still able to be drawn to, and respond by choice of will to God, even though he suffers inclination to sin (hostility to God). The Reformers departed from this Apostolic view, and changed the meaning of the words"free will" for themselves.

Yes, I believe that the bible teaches predestination. God eternally wills to save some and to leave others in their sin and rebellion. God’s mercy and grace is not equally distributed to all souls. The God of the bible is free to have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and He will harden those whom He will harden.

Although these Catholic teachings, found in the Scripture, are part of the gospel message, your perception of what they mean, and how these eternal truths affect mankind, has been warped by various heresies. It is not your fault. It seems clear that you were never exposed to what the Apostles taught.

No, the bible teaches that not everyone is going to heaven, and not everyone is going to hell. It is based upon the will of God.

I agree with you, except that the bible does not “teach”. It is a record of Apostolic Teachings. God gave the duty of teaching to persons, not books. I also agree that it is based upon the will of God. In His sovereignty, He has ordained that each soul choose to be with Him for eternity, or not.

I agree that God desires that we love Him “Freely” in return - not coerced. But it seems to me that since “the sinful mind is hostile to God” as Scripture says, unregenerate people cannot love God because they WILL NOT love God.

True, but those who come to God do not necessarily come to Him out of love. Love begins in us as a small seed, and grows. Long times of sanctification will result in greater love toward God. However, most come to Him initially out of a desire to save themselves from the fires of hell, or the evils of this present generation.

We cannot bring ourselves to do what we will not do.

No, and Latin Catholics refer to drawing grace as “prevenient” - the grace that precedes coming to Him. This grace is poured out upon all, so that all may be saved,a nd come to the knowledge of the Truth. Not all respond to it by coming.

Something needs to change within us before we can love God. Jesus said, “you must be born again.”

Well, love is a many layered Truth. We love Him, because He first loved us. Our love is very self centered at first, and grows selfless over time. However, it is a heresy that a person is born again before coming to Christ.

 

[guanophore]

I believe that everything that God commands of me is law in God’s view, which is the only viewpoint that really matters!

I agree. However, the Law of Love is qualitatively different than the Law of Moses.

If you are saying that baptism in water is necessary for a person to be saved then I would object on the grounds that Scripture tells us that by observing the law no one will be justified.

God can save whoever He wants, however He likes. He has commanded baptism, so we obey Him. He is not bound in the way He dispenses His grace.

Gal.2:15-16 We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Rom. 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

You are taking these verses out of context. They are making reference to the Law of Moses. Those under the Law of Moses were saved the same way we are, by grace, through faith. Obedience flows from grace, through faith.

However, baptism is one of the means by which grace is imparted. It is not, as you seem to think, a “work of the law”.

Where in the context of the two verses I cited does Paul tell us that he is discussing the Levitical Law only? What does “Law of Love” have to do with getting baptized in water? I don’t understand why we can’t just take the verses to mean what they seem to mean: that no one is justified by obedience to the law?

The context of the letter to the Galatians is Paul addressing the believers about getting circumcised after they were baptized Christians. They were falling prey to Judiazers, who were telling them that they must be, and that they needed to follow the Law of Moses.

We are justified in baptism by grace, through faith. It is not a work of the Law.

Mick,
What is perplexing is why you would think or insinuate that the Gospel (Good News of Jesus Christ) is different than Catholic Good News. Your post is born sadly of ignorance of autentic Christianity. I hope now you understand why. Christ built the Catholic Church to teach the Gospel without error. God’s Church (The Catholic Church) has done that for almost 2,000 years now, and no other ecclesial community has. Christ is Head of the Catholic Church, the only Church He established. All other ecclesial communities were established by men who are not also God. They all teach their own version of God’s Good News, none of them having done it without error, because they don’t teach God’s word, but their own interpretations of God’s word. By telling others that God said or taught such and such, when it’s not true, is bearing false witness against God. Is that fair to Him or to anyone? Their version of the Good News is different than God’s. God teaches His Good News throught the Catholic Church, and so how could it be different? It’s not! The God-made Catholic Church has never once taught error in faith and morals binding on all the faithful. None of the man-made “churches” can make that claim honestly.

Don’t be too hard on Mick. He has never been exposed to the Apostolic Teachings. He did not even know that he was separated from them by the Reformation. He has done the best he could with the truncated version of the Gospel he received.

 

[juliamajor]

I love when OP put a question up, that sounds like they want to debate,then proceed to “school” you-or tell you what you believe.
All who do not fall into their narrow view of Gospel via Sola Scriptura is condemned.The trouble is that as a Jew Christ himself would have viewed His scriptures via the prism of Word and Tradition.Not one or the other but both, a tradition that started at Sinai and that continues to this day.Jewish disciples of a Rabbi were not allowed to write down his words.Writing can be flawed,the writer can fall asleep, his pen might slip,he gets fatigued.Oral transmission was considered the more reliable way to pass information.Such is the confidence in oral transmission, oral tradition,oral authority which some disdain so much.

 

[MDK]

Don’t be too hard on Mick. He has never been exposed to the Apostolic Teachings. He did not even know that he was separated from them by the Reformation. He has done the best he could with the truncated version of the Gospel he received.

All the more reason to tell the truth to those ignorant of where they are and where they have been, and the dangers of it. There is obviously no condemnation, but letting one know where they are in relation to the true picture. Considering what I’ve seen here, it is completely appropriate. Your real friend will tell you you have something on your nose. Others will just laugh.

Take a look at the way Christ schooled Peter, for which Peter must have had some sleepless nights. I have done much less here, as I haven’t called him a “Satan”. So, I should be doing more than I am now. I don’t believe that Christ was in the least being uncharitable to Peter, but He was being extremely charitable by training Peter for his mission. We are supposed to become saints. If Mick wants that, he should listen. If he doesn’t, then he should remain stubbornly in his own man made tradition. Withholding the truth would not help in this case to appear to some to be their version of “nice.” People who know me know I am one of the nicest guys around.

 

[Ignatius]

The word “gospel” means “good news”. What is the Catholic gospel in your opinion?

The Gospel message of The Catholic Church is the one received by the Apostles from Jesus Christ. We wrote a book about. Here’s it is:
The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun***, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament. ***
Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

The Council of Hippo in 393 reaffirmed the canon put forth by Pope Damasus I…

AD 393:
Council of Hippo. "It has been decided that besides the canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture.

The Third Council of Carthage reaffirmed anew, the Canon put forth by Pope Damasus I…(canon 47 A.D. 397).

The Gospel of Jesus Christ remains the same as the one received by The Apostles. If you would like to learn more about the teachings of Jesus Christ, please contact the folks at http://www.chnetwork.org/. I promise, if you unite yourself to Jesus Christ through His Church, you will experience the great gift the He has promised to those who follow Him. As Jesus said, “He who eats My body and drinks My blood lives in Me and I in him and I will raise him up on the last day.” And He is faithful and sure to keep His promises. Repent, turn to the Gospel and be saved and you will have everlasting life.

Grace and peace be with you.

Your servant in Christ.

 

[PJM]

=Mick Taylor;5511756]The word “gospel” means “good news”. What is the Catholic gospel in your opinion?

***The Incarnation took palce so that humanity could come to know God in a personal relationship.

Jesus Died on the Cross and Rose from the dead to effect humanities Redemption:thumbsup:

Jesus created the Seven Sacraments [five of which have a powerful and influencial role in ones personal Saqlvation] Baptism, Confirmation, Confession, The last Rites and THe Eucharist, the very Real Presence of Jesus Himself on earth. [Mt. 28:20]

When Jesus hung on the Cross He was filled with Regrets! NOT for what He had endured, NOT for what He has accomplished, but FOR what Jesus had failed to do!

What is that you ask? To SAVE every man, women and child; past, present and furture!

In Divine Wisdom and Perfect Love Christ Instituted His ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOLOSTOLIC CHURCH, as a Mother, to guide, teach, nurish, shelter, lead and be the source of a multitude of GRACES only available to Catholics, but needed by everyone, to give every help, every assistance in cooperating with Jesus in our Salvation:clapping::dancing:***

Catholics have THEE MASS, thee single greatest source of grace availabe to humanity on planet earth. Indeed it is thee closest tging to heaven on earth! TALK ABOUT THE GOOD NEWS!

Love and prayers friend. It’s wonderful to be a Catholic:heaven:

 

[Mick_Taylor]

The NT was written by Catholics, and represents 100 % Catholic belief. In it, we read that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us”, and “there is no greater love than this, that a man will lay down his life for his friends”. Very good news!

Hi guanophore,

Didn’t the CC also once say that there is no salvation outside of the CC? I know that the CC has changed its position on this issue post V2, but that was what it once taught! Amazing!

 

[davidv]

Hi guanophore,

Didn’t the CC also once say that there is no salvation outside of the CC? I know that the CC has changed its position on this issue post V2, but that was what it once taught! Amazing!

This teaching has not changed. It is somewhat more refined, but the teaching is the same.
Do a search on this forum and you will find numerous threads on the subject.

 

[cides23]

Hi guanophore,

Didn’t the CC also once say that there is no salvation outside of the CC? I know that the CC has changed its position on this issue post V2, but that was what it once taught! Amazing!

??? Yeah that teaching is still taught, if you read the Catechism of the CC you’ll see that those who through no fault of their own do not know Christ and his Church but seek to live a holy life, are saved through the Grace of GOD.

But those who do know Christ and his church but refuse to obey and reject, well out side His Church no salvation because through his church we receive the fullness of Truth because it is His Church that he instituted not man made like all the protestants.

i just think it’s amazing WOW Christ founded a Church and gautanteed the promise of the HOly Spirit to guide to all truth.

 

[SimonArizona]

??? Yeah that teaching is still taught, if you read the Catechism of the CC you’ll see that those who through no fault of their own do not know Christ and his Church but follow the dictaes of the Holy Spirit seek to live a holy life, -]are/-] may also be saved through the Grace of GOD.

But those who do know Christ and his church but refuse to obey and reject, well out side His Church no salvation because through his church we receive the fullness of Truth The power of the Holy Spirit unto salvation (Sacraments) because it is His Church that he instituted not man made like all the protestants. Fallen away brothers in Christ

i just think it’s amazing WOW Christ founded a Church and gautanteed the promise of the HOly Spirit to guide to all truth.