M
Mick_Taylor
Guest
How, in your opinion, was the identity of the true church obvious without a thorough knowlege of history?
- Status
F
fhansen
Guest
There has always been heresy and schism but there was never the huge multiplicity of approaches to the faith that have existed beginning with the reformation.
M
Mick_Taylor
Guest
So without the huge multiplicity of approaches to the faith, the identity of the true church must have been obvious without a thorough knowlege of history? How?
M
Monica4316
Guest
the ‘Catholic gospel’ is THE Gospel… it’s not somehow different from a “Christian Gospel” 
sorry if I’ve misunderstood…
the ‘Catholic Gospel’ is that God became a Man and died for our salvation and rose again on the third day.
sorry if I’ve misunderstood…
the ‘Catholic Gospel’ is that God became a Man and died for our salvation and rose again on the third day.
F
fhansen
Guest
I don’t know where you’re going with this. There was basically one Church so why would anyone need to know history then? Knowing history now actually causes people to cease to be Protestant.
D
deanarrca
Guest
Didn’t realize that there was this thread when I started mine- However mine was coming from a Catholic view point in the First place. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=364520
Now for what you said in my thread
*Mick Taylor Said >>Jesus said, “I am the way.” If Jesus wanted us to enter into the mystery of the Gospel by means of His Church, then He would probably have said something like, "I am the way, and the only way to me is by the Catholic Church.<<
*
**Nope Mick-- you misunderstand that-- **The Church is the Body of Christ. By means of his Church means that it is now through the Church (Universal- all members who make up the Body of Christ) that now spread and teach the Gospel. The Church is the means by which the world is evangelized.
CCC846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Now for your Question --What is the Catholic gospel message?
The Catholic Gospel is more than the typical Fundamentalist Gospel which is very truncated. There is much more to the Gospel than the typical Fundamentalist version of
Peter 2:14-47
38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Now for what you said in my thread
*Mick Taylor Said >>Jesus said, “I am the way.” If Jesus wanted us to enter into the mystery of the Gospel by means of His Church, then He would probably have said something like, "I am the way, and the only way to me is by the Catholic Church.<<
*
**Nope Mick-- you misunderstand that-- **The Church is the Body of Christ. By means of his Church means that it is now through the Church (Universal- all members who make up the Body of Christ) that now spread and teach the Gospel. The Church is the means by which the world is evangelized.
CCC846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Now for your Question --What is the Catholic gospel message?
The Catholic Gospel is more than the typical Fundamentalist Gospel which is very truncated. There is much more to the Gospel than the typical Fundamentalist version of
- acknowledge that we are all sinners in need of God’s forgiveness.
2.) we recognize that only God can save us.
3.) acknowledge Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins and to bring us to God.
4.) the final step is that each individual accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior to be saved.”
- That is not what Peter preached when the 3000 were saved.
Surely you will admit Peter must have Preached the Gospel here-
Peter 2:14-47
38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
D
Disciple96
Guest
He calls us but we don’t all choose to respond. That little pesky thing called “free will” gets in the way of some folks. That is no reflection on God, His abilities or His mercy. It is a reflection of our own stubborn ignorance.
M
Mick_Taylor
Guest
Hi deanarrca,
It seems to me that if God wanted to make one particular religion or one religious institution the focal point for our attention and our loyalty He wouldn’t have Jesus telling one of the men crucified next to Him that, “today you will be with me in paradise.”
Jesus often rebuked Jewish teachers of the law for their prideful attitude concerning their standing as faithful and obedient Jews. So, while I agree with you that the main role of the church is to spread and teach the Gospel, it is God who gets all the glory for our salvation. Jesus said:
I am the way.
D
Disciple96
Guest
Um…you know, It’s pretty clear all through the Bible that God did make one particular religion and even one particular family the focus of His own attention, and pointed us toward it too.
That family has grown over the years and is now worldwide. Hence the name which means universal. Ie, the Universal Worldwide Catholic Church, the Body of Christ and the Family of God and the visible Kingdom on earth, which the Church has always realized is the New Israel grafted onto the First Israel, with the rest of the family being either in Heaven or not having been created yet. The family is still a work in progress.
C
carolin_A
Guest
The Catholic gospel is about Jesus who was present from the beginning of times and offers us salvation but he has also given us the choice to choose the path we want to go.
He is the new Adam, who conquered death and as a result of his dying on the Cross for all men, we are saved.
He is the new sacrificial lamb . The Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World.
He is the new Moses who leads his people out of exile(if we are in a state of sin), if we reconcile.
Jesus also tells us that the most important of all the laws is to Love Your Neighbour.
Forgive your brother not 7 but 77 times. This summons up the most important aspects of the bible. So lets try to do this, instead of seeking who’s church is preaching what. Then God will be pleased with us and we too can be pleased with ourselves that we are living a life that is acceptable by GOD. .
Let people see the Jesus in our life and tell them who he is by our examples. This is the Catholic story of the Gospel and a beautiful one. God Bless
He is the new Adam, who conquered death and as a result of his dying on the Cross for all men, we are saved.
He is the new sacrificial lamb . The Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World.
He is the new Moses who leads his people out of exile(if we are in a state of sin), if we reconcile.
Jesus also tells us that the most important of all the laws is to Love Your Neighbour.
Forgive your brother not 7 but 77 times. This summons up the most important aspects of the bible. So lets try to do this, instead of seeking who’s church is preaching what. Then God will be pleased with us and we too can be pleased with ourselves that we are living a life that is acceptable by GOD. .
Let people see the Jesus in our life and tell them who he is by our examples. This is the Catholic story of the Gospel and a beautiful one. God Bless
M
MDK
Guest
This is extremely ignorant of what Christ has done. Do you recall that Jesus said He would build His Church, and that Peter was the rock, and that the gates of Hell would never prevail against it? If so, how can you ignore that Jesus said He would build a Church? Did Jesus just do things that were on a whim, or inconsequential? No, He did not. Everything He did had meaning and purpose. The Church He built is no different.
The ignorant will try to separate things with either/or. With what Christ has established, it’s not either/or. These things must exist with Christ and for Christ. The ecclesial communities not made by Christ have drifted, with some being so far from Christ, they don’t recognize Christ nor what He established (that last sentence would be you, Mick).
The ignorant will say it is either God or the Church He built.
The wise, In truth will say it is God and His Church.
Why? Because it is in the Church, His Body, His Bride, that we have the truth about Him without error and His Seven Sacraments that unite us more fully to Him. By rejecting what Christ has established to know Him and be close to Him, you therefore reject Christ. Evidence is that those ignorant of what the Scriptures actually teach, end up creating their own version of Christ in their own image and to their own liking.
The ignorant will say either God or the priest.
The wise will say God through His priests.
The ignorant will say the Bible or the church.
The wise will say God’s Church with the Bible it authored.
The ignorant will say it is Jesus or the office of Peter.
The wise will say it is through the office of Peter (which God protects from teaching error in faith and morals) that we know God without error.
The ignorant will say that it is Jesus because His Church went astray.
The wise will say that it is Jesus and His Church which cannot go astray because of His promise and protection.
We could go on, but this is enough to illustrate the point (not that I think the ignorant will understand and go with this truth).
M
MDK
Guest
This is ignorant even of when the Church started as well. Scriptures teach that Jesus told the “good thief” that he had salvation, and evidence of Scripture showing the thief’s faith and good work of proclaiming Christ is Lord from the Cross. At the time Jesus said this to the thief, the Church had not even been started yet. Do you recall that Adam’s bride was taken from His side while asleep. As the new Adam, Christ’s bride was taken from His side when blood and water issued forth as He was dead on the cross. The Church then got its “legs” at Pentecost, when Jesus gave those in the upper room the Holy Spirit. Before receiving God’s Holy Spirit, the Apostles were afraid. Jesus then proceeded to give His Church the Holy Spirit (note that Christ didn’t just give the Holy Spirit to all those standing in the Temple, or those standing around Jerusalem). After receiving the Holy Spirit, you couldn’t stop the leaders of His newly founded Church from preaching the Good News of Jesus (BTW, what Bible did they use at Pentecost to preach from? None, there wasn’t one at the time. Inspired Catholic men had not authored the NT Scriptures yet, and wouldn’t for some time, and the canon of the Bible itself would not be formally defined for some 350 years. These inspired Catholic men preached the Oral Tradition before, during, and after some of this Tradition was written into the Scriptures). Christ’s Apostles were the first Bishops of the one Church that Christ created, while Jesus had clearly established Peter as head Apostle with authority (keys to the Kingdom of Heaven). The office of Bishop and of Head Bishop have been passed down through organic laying on of hands of ordination in God’s Catholic Church to the present day, and will until the end of time. This is all done by the will of God, and with the protection of God so that the Church remains Christ’s spotless Bride by never teaching error in faith and morals.
F
fhansen
Guest
Mick, would it really make sense for God to desire the kind of disunity that occurs within the body of Christ every time a new denomination spins off-sometimes with much viciousness involved and usually over doctrinal issues? Many of the doctrinal issues that divide Protestants are crucial ones-centering around salvation. Even JWs and Mormonism are distant Protestant offspring, interpreting scripture as they see fit. A single Church which God guarantees will not be led into error on matters of the faith is the only option that makes sense. And the only Churches that could possibly vie for such a position are the Roman Catholic and Orthodox, both related to each other in their mutual continuous connection to the beginning of Christianity.
God chose to use people to spread His good news. And the message must be the correct one.
M
MDK
Guest
Why do the ignorant try to keep hanging their beliefs on what they think God would have done, or should have taught, or could do? We do know what God has revealed, and what He did do and actually did teach. God didn’t leave us orphans, and gave us a means to know Him and be close to Him. That means is His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church of which He is Head, seated on His throne in Heaven. His Church exists in Heaven, in Purgatory, and on Earth. For the Church on Earth, He set up an office of Prime Minister through which He protects this “pearl of great price” from teaching error in faith and morals. This is simply what God has done and continues to do.
All the speculating about what you or anyone thinks God could do, should do, might do, ought to have taught, should have taught…, will never lead us to know Christ and what He did do, what He actually taught, and still does and teaches.
People won’t become any less ignorant by speculating on what they prefer to believe about Christ, rather than learning from the infallible source what He did do and still does. Why is it infallible? Because God built it and protects it.
M
Mick_Taylor
Guest
I hope this won’t offend you, but it seems to me that we ought to want to place ALL of our trust in what we desperately need for our salvation, and that is Jesus. Your “gospel” message is primarily about your religious institution, which never saved anyone, and can’t be good news since it is basically a message of “my church is better than your church”. How is THAT good news?
N
nuntym
Guest
EGAD! So many people were not saved because the printing press, modern construction techniques, and mandatory schooling were not invented yet for the first 1500-1900 years of the history of the Church, and the Church did not believe in Matthew chapter 25?! The horror! gasp
F
fhansen
Guest
**How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”[g] Romans 10:14-45
**
Of course only God saves but Jesus isn’t received by osmosis-the gospel must be preached. The good news is the Churchs’ message-and she points us to the Trinity-not to herself.
D
deanarrca
Guest
OK Mick Taylor
I answered this for you once already. I will assume you missed it
Mick you said–
I]added yet another combersome burden–“outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.”
You don’t understand and misrepresent this phrase.
As I already stated :
**Nope Mick-- you misunderstand that-- The Church is the Body of Christ. By means of his Church means that it is now through the Church (Universal- all members who make up the Body of Christ) that now spread and teach the Gospel. The Church is the means by which the world is evangelized.
CCC846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:**
I answered this for you once already. I will assume you missed it
Mick you said–
I]added yet another combersome burden–“outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.”
You don’t understand and misrepresent this phrase.
As I already stated :
**Nope Mick-- you misunderstand that-- The Church is the Body of Christ. By means of his Church means that it is now through the Church (Universal- all members who make up the Body of Christ) that now spread and teach the Gospel. The Church is the means by which the world is evangelized.
CCC846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:**
D
deanarrca
Guest
**What is The Catholic Gospel-
Hera ya Go:** Surely Peter preach the gospel when the 3000 became Christians.
St. Peter’s first sermon, which is preached on the day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:22-40) summarizes Jesus’ life, death and resurrection, and ascension into heaven. Then he instructs his hearers: “Repent, and be baptized… for the forgiveness of your sins” (2:38)
In this address, the notion of salvation by “faith alone” does not appear at all. Instead, the gospel preached is the proclamation of who Jesus is and what he has done. Salvation (including God’s forgiveness of sins) comes to hearer through their response of repentance, baptism, and a subsequent life of obedience to God. (If you believe/have faith you will be obedient see James 2) When St. Paul preaches the gospel, he makes the same kind of proclamation and calls for the same kind of response. (see Acts 13:16-41; 1 Cor 15:1-11
(The above was taken from notes of mine and are not all my words- I believe they are mostly Dave Armstrong’s words)
Hera ya Go:** Surely Peter preach the gospel when the 3000 became Christians.
St. Peter’s first sermon, which is preached on the day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:22-40) summarizes Jesus’ life, death and resurrection, and ascension into heaven. Then he instructs his hearers: “Repent, and be baptized… for the forgiveness of your sins” (2:38)
In this address, the notion of salvation by “faith alone” does not appear at all. Instead, the gospel preached is the proclamation of who Jesus is and what he has done. Salvation (including God’s forgiveness of sins) comes to hearer through their response of repentance, baptism, and a subsequent life of obedience to God. (If you believe/have faith you will be obedient see James 2) When St. Paul preaches the gospel, he makes the same kind of proclamation and calls for the same kind of response. (see Acts 13:16-41; 1 Cor 15:1-11
(The above was taken from notes of mine and are not all my words- I believe they are mostly Dave Armstrong’s words)
G
guanophore
Guest
I could not help but think of the history of the Hebrew people when reading this. I think there is an error in your premise. You see, salvation is of the Jews, and this is exactly what He did with the Jews!
I fail to see what the two had to do with one another. Do you think the thief was not a Jew?
I fail to see the relevance of this statement. Do you think that Catholics are have a “prideful attitude”?
Jesus is not separated from His Body, the Church. It was failure to recognize this that caused the fracturing of the Body in the first place.
For some reason you seem to think that His decision to found a Church, and to make that church His Body, and function as it’s Head was unnecessary and extraneous.
- Status