What is the Catholic gospel message?

[fhansen]

You are arguing in a circle again, MDK. It is certainly possible that you are not following what God established. That is why I asked all of you… how you can KNOW that the CC is the same church that was founded by Jesus. The answers given always seem to follow the same circular path:

We know that we follow the true church because it is impossible for the gates of hell to prevail against Christ’s church, and we know that the CC is Christ’s church because the gates of hell have not prevailed against it.

Is this not circular? Yet, surprisingly, this is (to many of you) the good news:

That Jesus founded the CC, outside of which there is no salvation.

As I see it, we ought to place all of our confidence in Jesus, and not in created things–even churches. Many religions will say, “We are the way.” But Jesus said, “I am the way.” It is Jesus, and He alone, who is worthy of all of our worship, praise, trust, and loyalty. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

How do you know that the bible is Gods word?

 

[diggerdomer]

You are arguing in a circle again, MDK. It is certainly possible that you are not following what God established. That is why I asked all of you… how you can KNOW that the CC is the same church that was founded by Jesus. The answers given always seem to follow the same circular path:

From your responses, it seems that NO answer would suffice, right? There’s no Church that anyone could PROVE to your satisfaction was founded by Jesus. Right? What if any criteria would satisfy you? I don’t think any exist that would meet your standards. Thanks.

 

[deanarrca]

*Mick said>>That is why I asked all of you… how you can KNOW that the CC is the same church that was founded by Jesus. <<
*

Because I have studied Church history and what the Church has taught and it is consistent from the beginning like Christ promised.

The burden of proof lies with you - Again if it ceased to be the “true” Church at what point do you feel it went astray?

For ease you can Look here- A timeline of Church History
davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_catholic_church.htm

All the Popes all the way back to Peter and the years they served
davidmacd.com/catholic/pope.htm#The%20List%20of%20Popes%20and%20Years%20Served

Time line of How the Bible Came to Us
davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_how_the_bible_where.htm

I would also recommend the Book By What Authority?: An Evangelical Discovers Catholic Tradition by Mark P. Shea

Aslo if you read the writings of the Early Church Fathers you will understand that most (not everyone on every topic but an astounding majority) are right in line with the Catholic Church teachings today. They have very little resemblance to what Luther and Calvin and the other reformers taught. It is very clear to me that how the very early Christian Church interpreted the Bible and what they taught is still how it is being interpreted and taught in the Catholic church today.

Investigate for yourself- You’ll be surprised and amazed at the Truth.

 

[CoachSTL]

Hi deanarrca,

Is there some way to KNOW that the CC is the true church without relying on your own private interpretation of history and Scripture? If so, please enlighten us! If not, then it will do no good–it will even appear hypocritical for you to pretend that Protestants like me are different from Catholics because we rely on our own private interpretation.

Mick Taylor,

Yes Mick. There is some way to know that the CC is the church established by Christ without relying on personal interpretation of history and Scripture. But I must ask, what is it that bothers you about what the Church teaches?

If you do not want to believe that history and Sacred Tradition (Christ and His Church) are sound reasons that Jesus’ message started with Him and has continued through the people He sent (ordained), than what kind of proof are you looking for?

A man named Jesus was born and claimed He was God. He could not prove prove it, He only gave people sound reasoning to believe Him. It took faith to believe Him. Some did, and some did not. Some will, and some will not.

The proof that you look for is in His Church (the people who He taught what to teach and how to teach it, and all of the body of believers.) is not in the interpretation of history or Scripture. It is in your heart. It takes faith and reason.

Simply put, Jesus taught people about Himself, and what we needed to do on this earth in order to attain heaven. He died. The people he taught continued the message. They died. The people who were taught by the people who Jesus taught did the same, and so on to this day. In the 1500’s a mere man, Martin Luther, convinced enough people to follow his teaching. His teaching was nothing founded by Christ. AKA we now have “christian churches” in addition to the one continuous Church founded by Christ. None of these Churches are founded by Christ, they are founded on personal interpretation of Scripture. And they do not teach, because they cannot teach, the full and authentic message of Christ.

 

[Disciple96]

If we are not saved by grace alone through faith alone, then what is it that saves us from our sins?

Well, first let us address this “alone” bit. Make up your mind: are you saying it’s “faith alone” or “grace alone”? This double alone-ness has always boggled my mind.

Second, it is God’s mercy and grace that saves us. I can’t save me. God can save me. He is saving me.now and He is saving me with my participation. Yes, He allows me to participate in my ongoing conversion and salvation. That’s what final perseverance is for. St. Paul urges us to persevere to the end.

He has already forgiven me my sins and is saving me in an ongoing conversion, each and every day. Now He is also giving me new life, which began at Baptism and continues as I continue to receive the Sacraments, study and pray the word of God in the Scriptures, hear the word of God at Mass, and receive the Word Himself in Holy Communion.

So I am saved. And I am being saved. And if I continue to be open to God and to receiving His grace, I shall be transformed more and more into the image and likeness of God, of Christ, to be precise. And the damage done by my sins will be more and more repaired and I will be more and more purified until at last one day I may hear those beautiful words:
*
“Well, done, my good and faithful servant. Come and enter into your Master’s house.”*

It’s not “grace alone”. It’s not “faith alone”. It’s my faithful co-operation with God’s grace with all the helps that He gives me, chief of those helps being Holy Mother Church. Neither “grave alone” nor “faith alone” is Biblical. They are not what the Church has always taught. And therefore, they are not what I accept. I accept the Gospel of Christ, which is held and taught, full and in entirety, by the Church which He founded.

 

[deanarrca]

Originally Posted by Mick Taylor
If we are not saved by grace alone through faith alone, then what is it that saves us from our sins?

Actually the Catholic Church Does teach that it is absolutely 100% by Grace alone through Faith but Not Faith Alone (see james 2)
I am sure you have read James 2 - the only place where the words faith and alone appear together is in James 2 and it is very clear that we are not justified by Faith alone.

Faith and works are two sides of the same coin.

Justification is total removal of sin, an infusion of grace and the renewal of the inner man. Catholics maintain that a true faith in Jesus Christ is not saving faith unless it bears fruit in good works without which spiritual growth is impossible. (I really think Fundamentalists agree here with Catholics and is why they put so much emphasis on the changed life of the believer but are afraid to say that good works take any effort on the part of the individual lest it be perceived the individual is trying to earn their salvation by good works) A Catholic does not believe you can earn salvation by good works just like Fundamentalists. That is the misconception. Catholics believe it is only by God’s Grace we are saved but good works are necessary for Salvation in the sense they are a reflection of ones faith. Faith without works is dead. see James chapter 2.

 So to a Catholic Justification and Sanctification are not separate from each other but closely related and intertwined. Sanctification is the process of being made holy not just legally declared so. Sanctification begins at baptism, is facilitated by prayer, acts of charity and the aid of the sacraments and is ultimately fulfilled upon entrance into heaven and union with God.

“Grace is defined in Catholicism as the gratuitous benevolence shown by God toward the human race and it is an absolutely unmerited free gift of God made possible through our redeemer Jesus Christ and his atoning death on the Cross for us.”

Mere external works done without purity of heart and charity are of little worth. 1 Cor 13:3

Catholicism holds that a person cannot save himself by his own self-originated works. The works come from a desire to demonstrate or work out our faith.

James Chapter 2:14-17 (KJV)

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

CCC 2010-2011

This article on my blog is really good and helps explain the differences between Protestantism and what the Catholic Church truly teaches

Justification by Love in Scripture and Catholic Dogma
deenyssimplejoys.blogspot.com/2009/07/justification-by-love-in-scripture-and.html

 

[Disciple96]

Originally Posted by Mick Taylor
If we are not saved by grace alone through faith alone, then what is it that saves us from our sins?

Actually the Catholic Church Does teach that it is absolutely 100% by Grace alone through Faith but Not Faith Alone (see james 2)
I am sure you have read James 2 - the only place where the words faith and alone appear together is in James 2 and it is very clear that we are not justified by Faith alone.

Faith and works are two sides of the same coin.

I was thinking more of St Augustine’s “God alone can save me, but he won’t save me without me.” Paraphrased. Close enough, I think.

Bottom line, we are not saved without our participation. We must co-operate with the grace that is freely given by God. He gives it freely, doesn’t have to. But we have to give something to receive it: we have to give our consent. We have to surrender ourselves to Him. Only then can we receive the grace God freely gives.

So that’s what I meant.

 

[swords99]

Ok, so now I’m confused. The apostle Paul taught we are saved by grace alone. That man can do nothing to save himself or add to his salvation.It is 100% God’s grace and the righteousness of Christ in the believer. Not our own “righteousness.” Paul, who was more of a saint and martyr then any of us could ever be, called himself the least of the apostles, a wretched man because he did not do the things he knew he should do, and the very things he should not do, he was doing!

The Catholic church teaches that there’s no salvation outside the church. (other religious groups teach the same thing, such as SDA, LDS, JW). So, what does the catholic church believe? Does the Sacraments save us? Baptism save us? “Good works”? Does man’s traditions save? Where in the Holy Bible does it say works or baptism saves? Paul never taught any of these things are requisite to salvation. The Bible says our most righteous acts are filthy rags. Paul said he was glad he was not called to baptize, but to preach. Paul also said he had preached the entire Gospel. If baptism is necessary for salvation then why didn’t Paul preach baptism? Why didn’t he baptize everywhere he went preaching? Either Paul was disobedient by only preaching half the Gospel, or baptism isn’t necessary for salvation.

 

[Thing]

Ok, so now I’m confused. The apostle Paul taught we are saved by grace alone. That man can do nothing to save himself or add to his salvation.

Man cannot save his soul anymore than Adam, after the fall, could save his soul by his own efforts. Adam needed another to save him. So, like Adam we are saved by God.

It is 100% God’s grace and the righteousness of Christ in the believer. Not our own “righteousness.” Paul, who was more of a saint and martyr then any of us could ever be, called himself the least of the apostles, a wretched man because he did not do the things he knew he should do, and the very things he should not do, he was doing!

What was Adams state before he fell and what was his state after he fell. Was Adam doing the same things both times. Surely the Adam who lived in a state of Grace acted and lived his life differently to the Adam who fell from the state of Grace.

The Catholic church teaches that there’s no salvation outside the church. (other religious groups teach the same thing, such as SDA, LDS, JW). So, what does the catholic church believe? Does the Sacraments save us? Baptism save us? “Good works”? Does man’s traditions save? Where in the Holy Bible does it say works or baptism saves?

The Catholic Church is the faith of the Apostles.

Paul never taught any of these things are requisite to salvation. The Bible says our most righteous acts are filthy rags. Paul said he was glad he was not called to baptize, but to preach. Paul also said he had preached the entire Gospel. If baptism is necessary for salvation then why didn’t Paul preach baptism? Why didn’t he baptize everywhere he went preaching? Either Paul was disobedient by only preaching half the Gospel, or baptism isn’t necessary for salvation.

Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

11 For it hath been signified unto me, my brethren, of you, by them that are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith: I indeed am of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I am of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I give God thanks, that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Caius; 15 Lest any should say that you were baptized in my name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanus; besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of speech, lest the cross of Christ should be made void. 18 For the word of the cross, to them indeed that perish, is foolishness; but to them that are saved, that is, to us, it is the power of God.

St. Paul was writing to contentious people here, saying he was glad *he *did not baptise them lest they would use his baptism to fan the flames of contention.
St. Paul did baptise Crispus and Caius and the household of Stephanus and others.
…
3 Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death?

38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[deanarrca]

For Sword99 This hopefully will help- I don’t have much time this morning-

First you said

The Catholic church teaches that there’s no salvation outside the church. (other religious groups teach the same thing, such as SDA, LDS, JW). So, what does the catholic church believe?

By this the Church means
The Church is the Body of Christ. By means of his Church means that it is now through the Church (Universal- all members who make up the Body of Christ) that now spread and teach the Gospel. The Church is the means by which the world is evangelized.

CCC846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Then you asked

So, what does the catholic church believe? Does the Sacraments save us? Baptism save us? “Good works”? Does man’s traditions save? Where in the Holy Bible does it say works or baptism saves?

Unlike Protestantism where Salvation is a one time event- Catholism and the Bible teach it is an ongoing process and Sanctification and Justification go hand in hand and are not separate from each other.

It is Grace alone that "Saves Us. The reason we can be saved is because of God’s love. Christ died to be the sacrifice for our sins. Our belief and faith in Christ saves us because if we truly believe we will obey and follow Christ. Christ said, " I am the way, the truth, and the life." You need to follow “The Way”. Christ has laid out a road map that if we have faith we will follow that leads to salvation. Justification and Sanctification is the foundation the start but it is also an ongoing process. The sacraments are gifts to us by God that are part of that process of continued sanctification so in that sense they can be said to save us. Works come from God’s Grace and our Faith compels us to good works and the Bible says works in turn perfect faith. In that sense works that come from faith are also part of salvation.** Keeping in mind we can do none of the above apart from God’s Grace.**

Many protestants claim to be "Saved"- well that is a misnomer- They are not "saved" yet because they have not died and are not in heaven. To be saved is to have attained eternal life and to be with God. When a protestant says they are "saved" what they actually mean is that they have "assurance of salvation" They believe they will be saved. But the assurance of salvation is another topic.

In Catholicism
SANCTIFICATION, is both a “past, completed action” and something which believers can increase or from which they can fall away through sin.

Sanctifying grace stays in the soul. It’s what makes the soul holy; it gives the soul supernatural life. More properly, it is supernatural life.

Actual grace, by contrast, is a supernatural push or encouragement. It’s transient. It doesn’t live in the soul, but acts on the soul from the outside, so to speak. It’s a supernatural kick in the pants. It gets the will and intellect moving so we can seek out and keep sanctifying grace.

To understand more fully I would start with these two article on Catholic Answers- These are a good place to start. They explain things clearer than I can.

Grace: What It Is and What It Does

and Is Justification Ongoing?

Where in the Holy Bible does it say works or baptism saves?

Look at Acts 2- for Batism Saves
James 2 for faith and works justify

There are many more Scriptures that clarify all this- but I am in a hurry so hope this helps as a start.

 

[deanarrca]

Sword99 and Mick Taylor

I started compiling a list of all the Scriptures that support the Catholic view of salvation and I ended up with a list too exhaustive to post here-

The Plan of Salvation as put forth by many Fundamentalists is this:

1. acknowledge that we are all sinners in need of God’s forgiveness.
   2.) we recognize that only God can save us.
   3.) acknowledge Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins and to bring us to God.
   4.) the final step is that each individual accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior to be saved.”

But What Does the Bible Say
Looking only from Scriptures you can see the typical Protestant plan of Salvation is not complete. It is truncated.

To Answer the Question
How are we saved? How can we attain eternal Life?

I can’t post all the Scriptures here. It is 10 Pages, but I did post them all written out in full
and organized under the following headings on my blog

deenyssimplejoys.blogspot.com/2009/08/scriptures-that-support-catholic-view.html

I. By God - God’s Grace Alone

Everything Below is only possible because of and with God’s Grace

II. Belief (But True Belief is demonstrated in Obeying- If one truly believes they obey)
III. Repentance of Sin
IV. Christ, Through Christ, Following Christ
V. God’s Word
VI. Not In The Scriptures/ The Scripture are just a Testament
VII. Works = Faith+Action (but not Works done without Faith or apart from Grace)
VIII. Baptism
IX. The Eucharist
X. Calling on the Name of Christ
XI. Must persevere to the End
XII. Salvation a Process
XIII. Salvation comes Through the Church (The Visible Church because she preaches God’s word – Evangelizes the World-- The Great Commission-- Also us individual Christians that make up the Church)

 

[Mick_Taylor]

Mick said>*>As I see it, we ought to place all of our confidence in Jesus, and not in created things–even churches. Many religions will say, “We are the way.” But Jesus said, “I am the way.” It is Jesus, and He alone, who is worthy of all of our worship, praise, trust, and loyalty. No one comes to the Father except through Him.<<
But you wouldn’t even know Jesus said “I am the Way” If it wasn’t for his Church. The Church that he Jesus created–

The Church came before the Bible- The Bible did not just appear out of thin air.

Christ founded the Church on Peter - a visible Church. The Apostles started visible Churches and gave instruction to those Churches.

I think I might trust the Church that gave the world the Bible- Why trust the Bible if you think the Church that determined what was Scripture was fallible and not the true Church?

I guess Christ, according to you, created his Church in vain since it is totally unnecessary in your mind.

Hi deanarrca,

Once again you simply add your bit to all these same repetitive slogans without anything to back them up. How do you KNOW that the CC is the one founded by Jesus? Does repeating these slogans over and over prove that they are true? Why are you so confident in your religion? I assume there must be some reason for your supreme confidence!

 

[Thing]

Hi deanarrca,

Once again you simply add your bit to all these same repetitive slogans without anything to back them up. How do you KNOW that the CC is the one founded by Jesus? Does repeating these slogans over and over prove that they are true? Why are you so confident in your religion? I assume there must be some reason for your supreme confidence!

Of course!

How does one know the CC is the one founded by Jesus?

By a simple process of elimination!

Protestantism ceases to exist before 1500 AD. => the Church founded by Jesus is not ‘protestantism’.

Eastern Orthodox ceases completely to exist when Constantinople was Byzantium. The first Bishop of the newly built Constantinople accepted the Pope in Rome as Pope. In fact there were about 33 Popes in Rome before Constantiople was built and given its first Bishop.

So, what Church do we have left? Ah… the CC. Very good.

The CC is the Church founded by Jesus, what else could be the Church founded by Jesus?

 

[deanarrca]

Hi deanarrca,

Once again you simply add your bit to all these same repetitive slogans without anything to back them up. How do you KNOW that the CC is the one founded by Jesus? Does repeating these slogans over and over prove that they are true? Why are you so confident in your religion? I assume there must be some reason for your supreme confidence!

Nope-- I answered you quite thoroughly in post #183 of this thread- Go back and Look at it and check out the links that I provided.

Look at my Signature and check out the link about my faith journey of how I came to the Catholic Church.

How do I KNOW that the CC is the one founded by Jesus?

Coming from the conclusion (which I can post all kinds of supporting evidence from Scripture) that there always was and is a Visible Church–

There was only One Church for the first 1000 years- Then that church splits in two to Become The Eastern (Orthodox Church) and The Western Church (Catholic Church all rites not just the latin). They both go directly back to Christ-

If the Gates of Hell did not prevail Against it – I believe both Churches are equally valid Apostolic Churches - Two branches of the same Lungs so to speak.

For the First 1000 year there was only one Visible Christian Church- If you were a Christian in 800ad then that is the Church you would have belonged to–

The Protestant pre-supposition is that at some point It ceased to be the True Church because it went astray into man-made tradition and departed from the true doctrines of the Bible.

But the Reformers and Protestants today can’t agree when that occurred- And if that is true then there was a gap with no visible church until the reformers restored it. This leads into the “Invisible Church” theory- But the Reformers didn’t restore the True Church or Reform the True Church. They created several new Churches because all the Reformers disagree with one another.

So no wonder you can’t figure it out- You are stuck with the invisible Church theory and that all Churches are flawed and none have the truth. The Bible has the infallible truth but what good is an infallible Bible when it can be interpreted fallibly.

But

I trust God that he preserved his teaching in his Church- A visible Church that did not disappear.

Why do I believe the CC is the Correct Church because I believe Jesus when he said
Peter upon this rock i build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.

I believe it is Visible and did not disappear. Because if you study what was taught and believed by the ECF’s who were part of the Visible Church they teach the same as the CC today- They Interpret the Bible the same way. The doctrine is consistent down through the ages. It has been preserved.

It is the reformers that had to change doctrine to fit their new definitions and to justify their divorce from the CC. They had to change what was believed by the Early Christians.

It is the Reformers that are teaching a new Gospel-- Faith Alone and Sola Scripture- the two foundations of Protestantism are not Biblical and are recent inventions not over 600 years old. The Bible the Apostles and the early church did not teach that.

If you believe the Bible is Infallible, then you must trust the Church that wrote, preserved, copied, protected and infallibly chose which books were to be included to be in the Bible, that true Church.

The Burden of Proof lies on you to prove otherwise that the Church that was the Church from the very beginning fell away from the truth-If so where is the True Church today? No wonder you have a dilemma.

So Church History, Logic, Consistency of Doctrine and Faith in Jesus all lead me to conclude that the CC is the true Church.

 

[fhansen]

Hi deanarrca,

Once again you simply add your bit to all these same repetitive slogans without anything to back them up. How do you KNOW that the CC is the one founded by Jesus? Does repeating these slogans over and over prove that they are true? Why are you so confident in your religion? I assume there must be some reason for your supreme confidence!

But the same question comes up for you. How do you know that Christianity is the true religion? How do you know the bible is Gods word? How do you know there is a God?

 

[guanophore]

How did you determine this? Was it by your own personal judgment?

No, I took a course in seminary on historical theology. We surveyed the development of theological ideas from the NT to the Reformation. For the first time, I actually read the Early Church Fathers.

 

[guanophore]

So what you’re saying is that YOU are capable of correctly interpreting the bible on your own, but not people like me? How is what you’re doing any different than what you say I’m doing (seeing things as I will)?

Catholics interpret according to the mindset of those who wrote it.

Do you have good reasons when you accuse me of “rejecting those Christ sent”? Where in the bible does it refer to a “chair of Peter” or a “pope”?

I think you have been very clear that you reject the Apostolic Succession.

Pope,and “chair” are Latin terms attached to what Christ put in place in Aramaic.

How did you come to know that in the Eucharist, Christ comes down from heaven PHYSICALLY to be with us?

This is what the Apostles believed and taught.

 

[guanophore]

Hi guanophore,

You also seem to see yourself as having quite a great gift for correctly interpreting the bible.

Really? How is that?

Why should we non-Catholics trust in YOUR supposedly non-deficient understanding of the bible?

I can’t see why you would. Since you reject those authorized by Christ, I am sure there is no reason for you to accept someone who was not.

  Are you a bible scholar?

Depends upon what you mean by that. I love scripture. I love to study scripture. I love to read scholarly works on the meaning of scripture.

 

[guanophore]

Hi guanophore,

I don’t recall that I necessarily confined my perception of the church to only three elements. But more importantly, what is it specifically that makes YOU so skilled at bible interpretation that you can discern “other marks of the true church”?

The Church did not come from the Bible, therefore, my ability to interpret scripture is irrelevant. The Bible came from the Church, the Church founded by Christ, upon the Apostles and Prophets.

 

[swords99]

If the Catholic Church is THE church founded by Christ Himself, then where did Jesus ever teach that we are to put traditions before or on par with Scripture? Jesus quoted Scripture often and rebuked the pharisees for ritual keeping and legalism. Where is it taught that we must confess our sins to a man (priest) when confession and prayer are to be directed to God alone. When did Christ ever teach praying to saints long since dead? These are things that need to be closely looked at and addressed. The Bible needs to be closely examined. If such traditions are not taught in our Scriptures, then they must be abandoned.

Someone on here wrote that protestantism didn’t exist before 1500, but what they fail to understand is that protestantism wasn’t some “new” faith. It was a protestation against a church that had gotten too big and powerful and had strayed from the simplicity of the Gospel that Jesus and the Apostles taught. What happened is that the CC had fallen into waters of errors. They were profiting from the sale of indulgences and sins were being absolved for those who could afford to pay. These and other things led Martin Luther to break away and nail his thesis to the church door. There was a catholic (universal) church already in existence at the beginning but it was not the catholic church of today. The modern Catholic church came into existence sometime after 300 AD. Protestantism was not a “new” faith, but rather revisions were made because of unscriptual things being taught and practiced in the CC. Neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever taught infant baptism or baptism by sprinkling. They never taught prayer or worship were to ever be directed to Mary. Reform was necessary and the Holy Bible needed to be in every home. It needed to be read by the farmer as well as the housewife…everyday folk, not just members of the clergy. People could not remain ignorant. People perish when there is lack of knowledge. The CC had too much power and it needed to be in the hands of the people. If we do not know what the Scriptures teach, then how can we know if what is being preached to us is even scriptural? The CC at that time frowned upon individual interpretation of Scripture, and it was this very monopoly that the Reformers protested against.

I was raised Catholic but left when I became an adult. I never once heard the necessity of being “born-again”, which the Bible clearly teaches. I hardly ever read the Bible. We had no Bibles in the church! I was never taught that only God can forgive sins. Jesus never played a major role in catholic teaching. I never even knew Him all those years I attended mass and religious instructions. I never even knew how to pray in my own words as I was accustomed to chantings.

I’ve had Mormon missionaries come to my door telling me they are the one true church because they have apostolic succession. The Catholic church claims the same thing. I have since realized that it is not a church ( i.e. religion), but a relationship with Jesus Christ that is of the utmost importance. The Church (bride) of Christ is made up of believers everywhere.