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PRmerger
Guest
But your understanding of who the Son is is at odds with traditional Christianity.
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SteveVH
Guest
The intent of Christian baptism is to be baptized in the name of God. The name (not names) of God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Your intent is not the same, therefore your baptism is not the same. I think you would agree with that as the LDS require that you be re-baptized. Christian baptism is not acceptable to you. You do not believe in the same God who is a Trinity. If you call a dogs tail a leg, it still has only four legs. To say you baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is not telling the entire story.Mormon’s do indeed baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
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Pythons
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A faith group which rejects the Trinity ISN’T Christian, it’s heretical - period.
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buffalo
Guest
This is my fault… I probably should have checked the examples closer.No, none of those groups are in communion with the bishop of Rome.
CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES
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SteveVH
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Very funny. I won’t put words into buffalo’s mouth, but what I would be referring to by the word “recognize” is the recognition of the Pope’s primacy in Christianity. The Eastern Orthodox, as far as I am aware, believe in papal primacy but do accept papal supremacy. As for the others you mentioned (JW’s & Mormons) they do not recognize any authority whatsoever in the Papacy. Nor, for that matter, do the great majority of Protestants. Big difference.I’m pretty sure all protestant, eastern orthodox, and even the JW & Mormons ‘recognize’ the pope as the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
For the visual def of recognize, same answer - his uniform is quite distinct, and he has the coolest limo when he visits
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Popemobile_passes_the_White_House.jpg
I recognize Joseph Smith as the founder of Mormonism, but I do not recognize him as a prophet in any way, shape or form. Get it?
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Antionach
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What do you mean by “Jesus-only” Evangelicals? Never heard that term before.any current JWs bring thier children back to the Church for Baptism and FHC.
But as a group, theologically, JWs, Mormans and some “Jesus-only” evangelicals are not Christians, as the Church defines the term.
Are they Unitarians then (Like Oneness Pentecostals)? Or why do you lump them together with JWs and Mormons?
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Antionach
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Well, Baptists or Pentecostals or other denominations who do Believer’s Baptism only, also don’t accept an Infant Baptism… (Infant Baptism = “only” a blessing, as baby can’t commit his/her live to Jesus. First give one’s life to Jesus and then is the Baptism as an outward sign that belong to Jesus (and then you are officially recorded in your Church).)The intent of Christian baptism is to be baptized in the name of God. The name (not names) of God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Your intent is not the same, therefore your baptism is not the same. I think you would agree with that as the LDS require that you be re-baptized. Christian baptism is not acceptable to you. You do not believe in the same God who is a Trinity. If you call a dogs tail a leg, it still has only four legs. To say you baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is not telling the entire story.
Mhm, if I recieve a Believer’s Baptism in, let’s say, a Baptist Church, do I need to be rebaptized in the LDS Church?
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SteveVH
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To answer your last question first, yes you would have to be re-baptized to enter the LDS Church. They absolutley do not accept any other baptism.Well, Baptists or Pentecostals or other denominations who do Believer’s Baptism only, also don’t accept an Infant Baptism… (Infant Baptism = “only” a blessing, as baby can’t commit his/her live to Jesus. First give one’s life to Jesus and then is the Baptism as an outward sign that belong to Jesus (and then you are officially recorded in your Church).)
Mhm, if I recieve a Believer’s Baptism in, let’s say, a Baptist Church, do I need to be rebaptized in the LDS Church?
As for the “Believer’s Baptism”, as you call it, this is a result of having no understanding of the nature of a sacrament after several hundred years of being separated from the origninal Church. Baptism is not just a person’s public statement that they believe in Jesus Christ. I can certainly make that statement without getting wet. It is an act of God’s grace. When God acts, something very real happens. Our souls are cleansed from sin and supernatural life is infused into us through the Holy Spirit who now dwells within us. Baptism is how we enter the family of God. Grace, by its very nature, is a free gift, requiring nothing from us. That is why infants can be baptized through the desire of their parents. If they wish to reject Christ later in life that option is always available to any of us. Baptism does not remove our free will.
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Antionach
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Interesting, for I know that if I am baptized in a Baptist Church, I don’t need to be rebaptized if I go to the Assemblys of God for instance.To answer your last question first, yes you would have to be re-baptized to enter the LDS Church. They absolutley do not accept any other baptism.
Yes, that’s the Catholic position.As for the “Believer’s Baptism”, as you call it, this is a result of having no understanding of the nature of a sacrament after several hundred years of being separated from the origninal Church. Baptism is not just a person’s public statement that they believe in Jesus Christ. I can certainly make that statement without getting wet. It is an act of God’s grace. When God acts, something very real happens. Our souls are cleansed from sin and supernatural life is infused into us through the Holy Spirit who now dwells within us. Baptism is how we enter the family of God. Grace, by its very nature, is a free gift, requiring nothing from us. That is why infants can be baptized through the desire of their parents. If they wish to reject Christ later in life that option is always available to any of us. Baptism does not remove our free will.
I believe that God can draw people to Him. Either by someone witnessing about Jesus, or because a person starts seeking Him and starts reading the Holy Bible.
In this conversion-process, the person recieves the Holy Spirit sent by Jesus. Then this person is a reborn-Christian and should find a community where he/she is nourished.
Then you can go into deepening talks about Jesus and the Holy Bible with the local pastor and then you can be baptized as an outward sign that you are a reborn-Christian and believe in Christ Jesus…
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buffalo
Guest
If you are Baptized using the Trinitarian formula, you have been baptized into the Catholic (universal) Church.Interesting, for I know that if I am baptized in a Baptist Church, I don’t need to be rebaptized if I go to the Assemblys of God for instance.
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SteveVH
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Nor do you need to be re-baptized to enter the Catholic Church. As Buffalo stated above, if you are baptised in the name of the Trinity, with water, you are baptised into the Catholic Church.Interesting, for I know that if I am baptized in a Baptist Church, I don’t need to be rebaptized if I go to the Assemblys of God for instance.
Yes, there is no end to the ways that God calls all people to himself.I believe that God can draw people to Him. Either by someone witnessing about Jesus, or because a person starts seeking Him and starts reading the Holy Bible.
The Catholic postion would be that we receive the Holy Spirit initially through Baptism (although the Holy Spirit is present in all of the sacraments). The conversion process should prompt one to desire the presence of the Holy Spirit and the person may be led by the Holy Spirit, but being drawn to God is not equivalent to receiving the Holy Spirit.In this conversion-process, the person recieves the Holy Spirit sent by Jesus. Then this person is a reborn-Christian and should find a community where he/she is nourished.
Or you could be baptised in order to cleanse your soul from sin.Then you can go into deepening talks about Jesus and the Holy Bible with the local pastor and then you can be baptized as an outward sign that you are a reborn-Christian and believe in Christ Jesus…
“Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.” (Acts 2:38)
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ConstantineTG
Guest
The First Ecumenical Council has settled this question a long time ago. Anyone who denies Christ’s divinity is anathematized.
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Lucky7
Guest
And yet in the Book of Acts we have stories of whole households, not just adults, being baptized.Well, Baptists or Pentecostals or other denominations who do Believer’s Baptism only, also don’t accept an Infant Baptism… (Infant Baptism = “only” a blessing, as baby can’t commit his/her live to Jesus. First give one’s life to Jesus and then is the Baptism as an outward sign that belong to Jesus (and then you are officially recorded in your Church).)
Mhm, if I recieve a Believer’s Baptism in, let’s say, a Baptist Church, do I need to be rebaptized in the LDS Church?
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SteveVH
Guest
Yes, we are to believe that there were no children under the age of reason in those households. I think the real problem is just a lack of understanding what a sacrament is. Even the term “sacrament” is not found in many Protestant denominations. It has been replaced with “ordinance” and has lost all original meaning.And yet in the Book of Acts we have stories of whole households, not just adults, being baptized.
The concept that God would freely give his grace and infuse an infant with divine life, absent any action on the part of the one being baptized, but rather the desire of the parents out of love for their child, is foreign to those who consider it an “ordinance”. Baptism, as an ordinance, is really just a public statement of one’s belief in Christ. There is no sanctifying grace involved. If one goes with this line of thinking then baptizing an infant would seem preposterous. Therefore they are forced to interpret the verse you chose in Acts as not including children under the age of reason. How they actually accomplish that mental feat is what I would like to know.
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