What is the Catholic teaching on 1 Cor. 1:8?

[Tommy999]

Just curious, Benny12. As an ex-Catholic who clearly is not friendly to the Catholic faith, what brought you to CAF?

To debate in good faith?
To demean Catholics and the Catholic faith?
To convince Catholics they are wrong?

It sounds like a little of each to me with an emphasis on the second one.

Julius Caesar and Fhansen have disagreed with you but have extended personal courtesy to you and have been respectful in their tone.

I don’t see you reciprocating much. Your last few comments were uncharitable to the highest degree, in my opinion.

 

[Tommy999]

This has nothing to do with the OP’s topic, and you know it, or at least should know it.

If you want to discuss sexual abuse by clergy as a topic, feel free to start one.

I personally think you bring up some interesting points that deserve discussing, but please try to be more respectful in tone.

@Lanman87 shares a lot of your views (I think) but is more courteous and respectful in tone. I suggest you learn from him on how to interact and disagree respectfully because I’m hoping you can stick around on CAF longer this time around.

 

[lanman87]

Of course we can meet that standard-as Scripture tells us to.

Wow, this thread has exploded, in a bad way, over the past few days.

Anyway, apparently Augustine disagreed that to be righteous is to be sinless. Which is the standard scripture holds us to achieve.

At the Council of Carthage in 418, that was oversaw by Augustine, it was maintained… as a principle of faith that Christian grace is absolutely necessary for the correct knowledge and performance of good, and that perfect sinlessness is impossible on earth even for the justified. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Semipelagianism

This is the crux of Reformed Theology on justification and righteousness. We aren’t justified and declared righteous because we achieve a perfect righteousness. God’s grace doesn’t just give us the ability to live a righteous and holy life. We are justified and declared righteous because of the righteous of Christ that is given, by Grace, to us as a gift “to all who believe”.

Therefore we are both sinners and righteous or sinners and justified, both at the same time. Our humanness makes us sinners and our status of being “in Christ” makes us righteous/justified. That is why there is no condemnation to those “In Christ”. Because to be “In Christ” is to be righteous before God thanks to the sacrifice of Christ, and not because of any personal righteousness we obtain through our merit or effort.

 

[fhansen]

The crux of Reformed theology is a novel, confused, and dangerous doctrine. No sinners enter heaven, as Scripture affirms. Augustine believed in a final purgation. Faith was never intended to be a replacement or stand in for righteousness, or the equivalent of righteousness in Gods eyes.

 

[fhansen]

Then how can we be sure “And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” Phil 1:6 ESV

and “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,” Jude 24 ESV

Do we bring the work to completion ourselves by an act of the will or does God bring us to completion by an act of His will?

Do we keep ourselves from stumbling and present ourselves as blameless by an act of our will or does God keep us from stumbling and present us blameless by an act of His will?

Why do we work out our salvation? Why would we need to make our calling and election sure? Why so many warnings and admonitions to believers to continue to walk the right path, worded in a variety of ways, with eternal life at stake. We can have a guarded assurance; we don’t have 100% assurance. Because it’s our will working in conjunction with Gods will. So He’ll bring us thru, as long as we remain in Him.

Phil 1:6 and Jude 24 apply to the elect at the end of the day. But only He knows with perfection who they are. Otherwise those verses are very obviously encouragement, hyperbole, etc, and not everyone who heard them at the time they were first written, or later thru the centuries and applied them to themselves were/are necessarily saved.

 

[fhansen]

LOL…

I’ll say goodbye for now because I’m sure Catholic Answers doesn’t want me talking about Catholic priests molesting children.

They don’t like truth

As the Catholic theologian Augustine once put it, “ All truth is Gods truth.” Truth is always better than falsehood, but we humans will continue to struggle with that concept: Catholics, Protestants (an AOG pastor of a church I once attended had a terrible problem with this), nihilists, humanists, nothingists, et al.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Therefore we are both sinners and righteous or sinners and justified, both at the same time. Our humanness makes us sinners and our status of being “in Christ” makes us righteous/justified. That is why there is no condemnation to those “In Christ”. Because to be “In Christ” is to be righteous before God thanks to the sacrifice of Christ, and not because of any personal righteousness we obtain through our merit or effort.

And in John 15, we are told to remain in Christ. So righteousness isn’t from us, but it’s still something we maintain.

 

[fhansen]

Scripture does not mention baptizing infants

Yes, and that’s a real problem-at least for Sola Scritpura adherents because Scripture is vague or even seemingly contradictory at times-on many things, which is why those who hold to SS often disagree with each other…on many things. Infant baptism was never an issue for the early Church- which is why one can find no real controversy on it in early Christian writings; the matter was settled from the beginning in both the east and west. And most Protestant churches from the Reformation on continued to believe in and practice it.

CC teaches at baptism the infant will start his/her salvation

True?

Yes, with the faith of the family and community standing in for the infant until the age of reason when more would be expected of and from them, in terms of fulfilling their baptismal vows. And Acts 16 tells us that whole households would be saved due to the faith of a parent and also that those whole households were baptized. Infant baptism continued to be the Tradition of the Church, the only entity that could know with any kind of certainty the truth of the matter. Anything else is guess-work.

 

[Cathoholic]

1st CORINTHIANS 1:7-9 7 so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; 8 who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

We ARE sustained to the end. That’s God’s part.

But by grace, WE have a part to play to REMAIN in the VINE (Jesus).

We must REMAIN in Him (in that Vine – Jesus).

If we do NOT REMAIN in Him (notice it is possible NOT to remain in Him), if we CHOOSE to reject Him, if we jump OUT of His hand, we will be cast aside and burned!

JOHN 15:1-7 ‘I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 ‘I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

 

[Justin_Mary]

From the Ascent of Mt Carmel

P.3. I am not undertaking this arduous task because of any particular confidence in my own abilities. Rather, I am confident that the Lord will help me explain this matter because it is extremely necessary to so many souls.

Even though these souls have begun to walk along the road of virtue, and our Lord desires to place them in the dark night that they may move on to the divine union, they do not advance. The reason for this may be that sometimes they do not want to enter the dark night or allow themselves to be placed in it, or that sometimes they misunderstand themselves and are without suitable and alert directors who will show them the way to the summit.

God gives many souls the talent and grace for advancing, and should they desire to make the effort they would arrive at this high state. And so it is sad to see them continue in their lowly method of communion with God because they do not want or know how to advance, or because they receive no direction on breaking away from the methods of beginners.

Even if our Lord finally comes to their aid to the extent of making them advance without these helps, they reach the summit much later, expend more effort, and gain less merit, because they do not willingly adapt themselves to God’s work of placing them on the pure and reliable road leading to union.

Although God does lead them – since he can do so without their cooperation – they do not accept his guidance. In resisting God who is conducting them, they make little progress and fail in merit because they do not apply their wills; as a result they must endure greater suffering. Some souls, instead of abandoning themselves to God and cooperating with him, hamper him by their indiscreet activity or their resistance. They resemble children who kick and cry and struggle to walk by themselves when their mothers want to carry them; in walking by themselves they make no headway, or if they do, it is at a child’s pace

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