What is the Catholic view of Predestination?

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What is the Catholic view of predestination/providence? I was recently reading Calvin’s “Institutes of Christian Religion,” so I understand his view, but I don’t quite know my own. Could someone help me?
 
Predestination is a tricky subject that has gotten many gifted theologians into trouble. There is even a heresy that ran rampant in France for centuries that is heavily influenced by Calvinism (Jansenism).

Something to keep in mind is that Calvin was raised Catholic and was heavily influenced by Saint Augustine. Thus, the actual differences between Calvin and orthodoxy on this issue aren’t as great as you might think. However, those differences are absolutely critical.

It is required by our faith that we believe:
  1. We are saved by the grace of God alone.
  2. We alone are responsible for our damnnations.
How these two dogmas are compatible is a mystery that has vexed the church for years. There are multiple theories (i.e. Molinists vs Thomists); however, to date the Church has not declared one opinion to be correct.

God offers his grace to all, and it is only through his grace that we are saved. Our works do not merit God’s saving grace. However, we may choose to resist or reject that grace.

Calvin departs from Catholic orthodoxy by saying:
  1. God does not offer his grace to all, but only to a small elect.
  2. One may not resist God’s grace as this would subvert the will of God.
 
Goodcreature said:
What is the Catholic view of predestination/providence? I was recently reading Calvin’s “Institutes of Christian Religion,” so I understand his view, but I don’t quite know my own. Could someone help me?
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Predestination is scriptural. That doesn’t people are without free will, or that anyone is predestined to hell without their will.
 
steve_b said:
Predestination is scriptural. That doesn’t people are without free will, or that anyone is predestined to hell without their will.
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While you can say people are predestined to heaven, you absolutely cannot say anyone is predestined to Hell. Several people have tried to get around this by trying to add qualifiers, but the Church has repeatedly stated it is not appropriate to talk of God predestining people to Hell in any context.

Note: I know you weren’t saying this, but just wanted to point it out.
 
Predestination is Catholic teaching. The Church teaches us that God, in his will and solely out of his pleasure, predestines certain individuals to heaven and ensures that they use their free will to respond to his grace in fulfillment of that predestination. How this is accomplished has not been defined, and there are two schools of thought that have been proposed:

Thomism proposes that without considering their merits, God predestines certain people to salvation and therefore gives them the graces he knows they will freely respond to and thereby gain those merits that will ensure their salvation. In Ludwig Ott’s parlance, the order of intention is glory-grace (God destines to glory and therefore intends to give certain grace), the order of execution is grace-glory (God gives that grace so that the person freely responds to it and therefore gain merit for salvation).

Molinism proposes that God, who sees all, knows how all people freely respond to his grace. In light of this, he chooses, according to his own pleasure a fixed and definite order of grace. He knows how each person will freely respond to that grace and in light of that knowledge predestines for heaven those he knows who will freely persevere in his grace, and for hell those he knows who freely reject that grace. The order of intention is grace-glory (God intends to give grace so that he can destine to glory), and the order of execution is grace-glory (God gives the grace and predestines to glory those he knows will freely respond to that grace).

What the two theories have in common is that they both affirm free will in salvation. The main difference is that Thomism does not account for man’s foreseen merits, while Molinism does.

The Church allows both theories. I personally like the Thomistic view better.
 
Thought I would share this post from earlier this week to this exact question. 😉
MarcoPolo said:
I don’t know that there’s a “normative” teaching since this is still a very great mystery. But as near as I can tell, the Church has proclaimed at least 3 things throughout the centuries.
  1. That man’s response is free.
  2. That man’s free, faithful response first demands God’s prevenient grace
  3. Neither man’s freedom, nor God’s sovereign will is violated by 1 or 2. And this is a great mystery.
Examples of the above:CCC#600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: “In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.

The sin of the first man has so impaired and weakened free will that no one thereafter can either love God as he ought or believe in God or do good for God’s sake, unless the grace of divine mercy has preceded him. (Council of Orange, 529 A.D.)

But where this would deviate from Armenianism, as I understand, is that the will is itself aided by grace, something often called prevenient grace. For example:He knew would perish, but He did not predestine that they would perish, because He is just; however, He predestined eternal punishment for them. And on account of this we speak of only one predestination of God, which pertains either to the gift of grace or to the retribution of justice. … The freedom of will which we lost in the first man, we have received back through Christ our Lord; and we have free will for good, preceded and aided by grace, and we have free will for evil, abandoned by grace. Moreover, because freed by grace and by grace healed from corruption, we have free will. (Council of Quiersy, A.D. 853)

The Synod furthermore declares, that in adults, the beginning of the said Justification is to be derived from the prevenient grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called; that so they, who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace. (Council of Trent, Session 6, chapter 5)

If any one saith, that without the prevenient inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and without his help, man can believe, hope, love, or be penitent as he ought, so as that the grace of Justification may be bestowed upon him; let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Session 6, Canon 3)I believe the last quote anathematizes Armenianism, if I understand Armenianism correctly. And Calvin’s idea of predestination eliminated man’s will from the matter.
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So, how do we explain/deal with circumstances beyond our control …and how they fit into Catholic Predestination Soteriology ?

Example A: a child of perfectly instructed, fully graced, Catholic parents is Baptized on Day 7, or soon thereafter, and has ever advantage …best Catholic Schools and Churches
…one day becomes Pope.

Example B: a child born out of wedlock, to a cocaine addict, raised in abusive family w/o his real father, no grandparents, bad schools & neighborhood, no Catholic Church in his environment, dies at age 21 in drive-by shooting …having never been in a Catholic Church or heard of God’s love or that Christ’s atonement on Cross could Baptize him/her clean of all sins inherited and personally committed

Would Thomas or Molinist better help us understand ?
 
porthos11 said:
Predestination is Catholic teaching. The Church teaches us that God, in his will and solely out of his pleasure, predestines certain individuals to heaven and ensures that they use their free will to respond to his grace in fulfillment of that predestination. How this is accomplished has not been defined, and there are two schools of thought that have been proposed:

Thomism proposes that without considering their merits, God predestines certain people to salvation and therefore gives them the graces he knows they will freely respond to and thereby gain those merits that will ensure their salvation. In Ludwig Ott’s parlance, the order of intention is glory-grace (God destines to glory and therefore intends to give certain grace), the order of execution is grace-glory (God gives that grace so that the person freely responds to it and therefore gain merit for salvation).

Molinism proposes that God, who sees all, knows how all people freely respond to his grace. In light of this, he chooses, according to his own pleasure a fixed and definite order of grace. He knows how each person will freely respond to that grace and in light of that knowledge predestines for heaven those he knows who will freely persevere in his grace, and for hell those he knows who freely reject that grace. The order of intention is grace-glory (God intends to give grace so that he can destine to glory), and the order of execution is grace-glory (God gives the grace and predestines to glory those he knows will freely respond to that grace).

What the two theories have in common is that they both affirm free will in salvation. The main difference is that Thomism does not account for man’s foreseen merits, while Molinism does.

The Church allows both theories. I personally like the Thomistic view better.
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Isn’t this teaching of the Church more consistent with Molinism, tho?

**600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: “In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.
**
 
porthos11 said:
Predestination is Catholic teaching. The Church teaches us that God, in his will and solely out of his pleasure, predestines certain individuals to heaven and ensures that they use their free will to respond to his grace in fulfillment of that predestination.
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You seem to be saying that predestination is by God’s decree, not God’s foreknowledge, i.e. God ordains that a certain individual will be saved because He wills it, vs. God ordains that a certain individual will be saved because God knows that the person will be saved (by His foreknowledge). In the former scenario, it seems to me that God’s grace would then be irresistible to the person receiving it. Is that what you mean? Or did I mess it up?
 
brb3 said:
So, how do we explain/deal with circumstances beyond our control …and how they fit into Catholic Predestination Soteriology ?

Example A: a child of perfectly instructed, fully graced, Catholic parents is Baptized on Day 7, or soon thereafter, and has ever advantage …best Catholic Schools and Churches
…one day becomes Pope.

Example B: a child born out of wedlock, to a cocaine addict, raised in abusive family w/o his real father, no grandparents, bad schools & neighborhood, no Catholic Church in his environment, dies at age 21 in drive-by shooting …having never been in a Catholic Church or heard of God’s love or that Christ’s atonement on Cross could Baptize him/her clean of all sins inherited and personally committed

Would Thomas or Molinist better help us understand ?
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I don’t know…I think I understand predestination of man’s salvation, but I don’t quite yet see how that operates in events in man’s life. How does God predestine those? I don’t guess free will has anything to do with it, since events don’t exactly have any.:confused:
 
Goodcreature said:
You seem to be saying that predestination is by God’s decree, not God’s foreknowledge, i.e. God ordains that a certain individual will be saved because He wills it, … In the former scenario, it seems to me that God’s grace would then be irresistible to the person receiving it. Is that what you mean? Or did I mess it up?
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No I don’t think you messed up. I think this summarizes the Thomist thought on the matter.
vs. God ordains that a certain individual will be saved because God knows that the person will be saved (by His foreknowledge).
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And this is pretty much Molinism.

Both are acceptable to the Church.
 
fhansen said:
Isn’t this teaching of the Church more consistent with Molinism, tho?

**600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: “In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.
**
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I guess this is why the Church has not rejected Molinism, as God’s foreknowledge is not something trivial in the grand scheme of things.
 
brb3 said:
So, how do we explain/deal with circumstances beyond our control …and how they fit into Catholic Predestination Soteriology ?

Example A: a child of perfectly instructed, fully graced, Catholic parents is Baptized on Day 7, or soon thereafter, and has ever advantage …best Catholic Schools and Churches
…one day becomes Pope.

Example B: a child born out of wedlock, to a cocaine addict, raised in abusive family w/o his real father, no grandparents, bad schools & neighborhood, no Catholic Church in his environment, dies at age 21 in drive-by shooting …having never been in a Catholic Church or heard of God’s love or that Christ’s atonement on Cross could Baptize him/her clean of all sins inherited and personally committed

Would Thomas or Molinist better help us understand ?
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Case A, even if we know that this person died in a state of grace, we do not know if God has predestined this person to salvation.

Case B. God has likely not predestined this person to salvation (because if he had, he would have died in a state of grace) but this does not mean God decreed that he should go to hell (this is against Catholic teaching and where Calvin erred.)

In both schools of thought, free will is always a factor when God predestines a person to glory.
 
porthos11 said:
I guess this is why the Church has not rejected Molinism, as God’s foreknowledge is not something trivial in the grand scheme of things.
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Well, I’ve never been quite sure, but I always assumed that paragraph was based on Molinism. In either case Molinism seems to favor the importance of man’s free will more than Thomism does.
 
I have seen many apologetic arguments that Catholicism has against the Calvinistic view of predestination.

What are the Catholic arguments against Arminianism? I’m sure that the Thomists wouldn’t agree with Arminianism–would the Molinists differ?

I know the Catholic church says it is OK to be Thomist or Molinist in regards to predestination and it is wrong to be Calvinist in regards to predestination.

Is it OK to be Catholic an be Arminianist in regards to predestination?
 
Jerry-Jet said:
I have seen many apologetic arguments that Catholicism has against the Calvinistic view of predestination.

What are the Catholic arguments against Arminianism? I’m sure that the Thomists wouldn’t agree with Arminianism–would the Molinists differ?

I know the Catholic church says it is OK to be Thomist or Molinist in regards to predestination and it is wrong to be Calvinist in regards to predestination.

Is it OK to be Catholic an be Arminianist in regards to predestination?
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Just want to provide this link for now by the late Servant of God, Fr. Hardon which includes a history of Molinism.

Also, apologist Michelle Arnold says that Arminianism rejects the possibility of unconditional election, which the Church retains as a possibility. Other than that, I am not positive at this time what may be other deviations between Arminianism and acceptable Catholic teaching on predestination.
 
Goodcreature said:
You seem to be saying that predestination is by God’s decree, not God’s foreknowledge, i.e. God ordains that a certain individual will be saved because He wills it, vs. God ordains that a certain individual will be saved because God knows that the person will be saved (by His foreknowledge). In the former scenario, it seems to me that God’s grace would then be irresistible to the person receiving it. Is that what you mean? Or did I mess it up?
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Hello GoodCreature! (this is my first post on this thread)

I hold to Aquinas’ position, and I still believe Aquinas thinks God’s grace can be resisted. There’s a tension: God’s grace can be resisted (it’s not determinism, robots, etc.) and God will ensure that the elect will move His way. Both are true, and nobody has really gone beyond that.

Look at the red part…this is why I believe Thomas Aquinas thought that God’s grace could be resisted…it’s not from necessity.
Aquinas…from his “Summa”…

First Part: Treatise on God

Question 23. Of Predestination

Article 5. Whether the Foreknowledge of Merits Is the Cause of Predestination?

On the contrary, The Apostle says (Tit. 3:5) Not by the works of justice which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us. But as He saved us, so He predestined that we should be saved. Therefore, foreknowledge of merits is not the cause or reason of predestination.
…
And so others said that merits following the effect of predestination are the reason of predestination, giving us to understand that God gives grace to a person, and pre-ordains that He will give it, because He knows beforehand that He will make good use of that grace, as if a king were to give a horse to a soldier because he knows he will make good use of it. But these seem to have drawn a distinction between that which flows from grace, and that which flows from free choice, as if the same thing cannot come from both. It is, however, manifest that what is of grace is the effect of predestination, and this cannot be considered as the reason of predestination, since it is contained in the notion of predestination. Therefore, if anything else in us be the reason of predestination, it will be outside the effect of predestination. …
…
In another way, the effect of predestination may be considered in general. Thus, it is impossible that the whole of the effect of predestination in general should have any cause as coming from us, because whatsoever is in man ordering him towards salvation is included wholly under the effect of predestination, even the preparation for grace.

Reply Obj, 3 Yet why He chooses some for glory and reprobates others has no reason except the divine will. Hence Augustine says (Tract. xxvi in Joan.): “Why He draws one, and another He draws not, seek not to judge, if thou dost not wish to err.”

Article 6. Whether Predestination Is Certain?

I answer that, Predestination most certainly and infallibly takes effect; yet it does not impose any necessity, so that, namely, its effect should take place from necessity.

Part I of the Second Part

Treatise on Grace

Question 112. Of the Cause of Grace

Article 3. Whether Grace is Necessarily Given to Whoever Prepares Himself for It, or to Whoever Does What He Can?

On the contrary…
Hence, however much a man prepares himself, he does not necessarily receive grace from God.

I answer that…
…it is from God the Mover, and thus it has a necessity - not indeed of coercion, but of infallibility -as regards what it is ordered to by God, since God’s intention cannot fail, according to the saying of Augustine in his book on the Predestination of the Saints (De Dono Persev. xiv) that “by God’s good gifts whoever is liberated, is most certainly liberated.” Hence if God intends, while moving, that the one whose heart He moves should attain to grace, he will infallibly attain to it, according to John 6:45: Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to Me.
 
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