What is the cause of poor catechesis?

[1ke]

I am concerned that the Catholic hierarchy does not universally have a high view of scripture.

This flies in the face of all evidence, such as literally every church document, which are steeped in scripture quotes, and Dei Verbum from VII.

 

[Dovekin]

Why am I confused? I have felt uneasy in the Catholic Church for several years. I feel my faith walk is like a parched desert. Again, thanks.

This is common. Many feel they are in uncomfortable positions. For some it is time to move, but for more it is time to stay. Without a thirst for the Word in the parish, preachers may not know they need to bring living water to us.

Wherever you help people appreciate the Word, you help build the Church.

 

[goout]

Scripture is NOT just for Christ! Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ! The word of God is our life’s blood. Without the word of God we walk in a wilderness without direction.

I have no idea what point you are disputing or what point you are trying to make.

I pointed out that scripture does not reveal itself for itself, nor does it serve itself for itself.
Scripture is for Christ, not the other way around. Perhaps the word “for” is confusing.

Scripture points to Christ and reveals Christ. It does not stand by itself or for itself at the peak of revelation.
The word is made flesh in Christ.

 

[glencor63]

The Catholic hierarchy does not make scripture a priority. If it was a priority scripture would have primacy of place, along with the sacraments. It would not just be heard during Mass in the Liturgy of the Word. It should not be left up to the laity to start their own bible studies or Sunday School classes. These things should be readily available in every parish. My parish has an adoration chapel, but not a Sunday School class for all ages each week. My faith is not soley focused on the Eucharist, but every word of God.

 

[goout]

The Catholic hierarchy does not make scripture a priority.
…

At the risk of being another echo in the chamber, let me say
NONSENSE.
read what others are pointing out to you.

 

[fide]

Goout: We as disciples take catechesis out of the abstract and put flesh on it when we witness to Christ with our whole lives.

Your post reminds me of this:

1. …it is appropriate first of all to emphasize the following point: for the Church, the first means of evangelization is the witness of an authentically Christian life, given over to God in a communion that nothing should destroy and at the same time given to one’s neighbor with limitless zeal. As we said recently to a group of lay people, “Modern man listens more willingly to witnesses than to teachers, and if he does listen to teachers, it is because they are witnesses.”
   (Pope Paul VI - On Evangelization in the Modern World - EN 41)

But teachers are still needed! Witnesses who are poorly formed in the fullness of the Faith, will give an incomplete testimony - one centered too much on themselves, and not on the saving message - the full truth of Christ.

We need teachers who are authentic witnesses.

 

[glencor63]

Is my experience false? Am I imagining the lack of bible studies and Sunday School classes? Are you telling me that I witness throughout the Catholic world a love of scripture, an emphasis on scripture, a knowledge of scripture, and a focus on scripture to rival any Protestant church? Are you saying that the Catholic laity is encouraged to love scripture as much as the Eucharist? Are you saying that at every parish exists an opportunity to study the word of God? If that is what you are saying it’s untrue.

 

[dconklin]

Oh and let me just add that PARENTS are the primary educators of their children in the faith.

1ke always hits the nail on the head. I am the Asst Dir of Religious Ed at a large parish. My primary responsibility is leading our PreK through 7th grade programming. We only see the kids for one hour a week for 28 weeks. We do cover Scripture. Some grades more than others - 6th grade is mostly OT and 7th grade is NT. I met a pastor once that was proud that in his parish kids had to know (memorize) certain things each year. As a professional educator, I know that not all kids learn that way. My son has some disabilities and could not learn that way.

 

[Cordelil]

I couldn’t have said it better.

 

[dconklin]

Are you saying that the Catholic laity is encouraged to love scripture as much as the Eucharist?

The Eucharist is first and foremost - as it should be.

 

[glencor63]

The Eucharist is not above the word of God. It is to be consumed along with the word of God.

 

[glencor63]

A friend, a cradle Catholic only discovered certain biblical characters, after she began attending a non-denominational bible study. She went through sixteen years of Catholic school. Please explain why she was excited to share things she learned as an adult, things I knew from my Protestant childhood.

 

[dconklin]

Life would be boring if we stopped discovering new things once we finished school. I attended Catholic grade school, high school, university and graduate school. I am 52 and have not read the Bible cover to cover. I still frequent Bible studies and read scriptural essays and literature. The Eucharist is why I am still Catholic.

 

[glencor63]

I should have become Anglo-Catholic. It’s more balanced. The Roman Catholic Church has its teachings. It has the right to teach that the Eucharist is the source and summit of the Catholic faith. It’s not what I believe anymore. I have to leave the Catholic Church to continue to grow spiritually. I won’t find answers in Catholicism.

 

[VeryBlessed]

Non-Catholic Christianity has some absolute strengths. In rejecting the sacraments, they are largely left with just two or three, baptism, prayer/worship, and Bible study. Bible study is clearly a strength there. But if you leave the Catholic Church you will find a randomness in the finer points of theology at virtually any other church you try. I say that as a revert after having spent more than 20 years in various wonderful but always slightly (or not so slightly) erroneous protestant churches. Consider this question - could the current evangelical Christian approach to the faith have existed before the invention of the printing press? It may well be that you are in the Catholic Church right now, to help people discover as great a love for scripture as they have for the sacraments. You may need the church, and the church may need you, more than you realize.

 

[glencor63]

Scripture alone is not biblical, but neither is it taught in scripture that the Eucharist is the source and summit of a Christian’s faith. The Catholic Church teaches this from sacred tradition. Both are important and deserve primacy of place. This thread has helped me to make a decision. I’m going to start attending an Anglo-Catholic Church.

 

[glencor63]

I’ve struggled with this for several years. Truthfully, I should never have converted. I set aside some red flags. I thought the Catholic Church was where I was supposed to be, but I should have waited. I don’t feel peace in my faith. The more I learn about Catholicism a feeling of entrapment comes over me. I feel trapped in a church that is actually undermining my faith. I don’t claim this for others. It’s the emphasis on everything else, but God’s word which disturbs me. It’s not something I can explain away. It’s a gnawing feeling that I’m in the wrong church.

 

[1ke]

Is my experience false?

Your experience is limited. If there are real concerns in your local parish, take them up with your pastor and the parish council.

Am I imagining the lack of bible studies and Sunday School classes?

I would say yes, because every parish I know of has religious education (not always on Sundays, ours is on Wednesdays).

At my old parish we had 4 different bible study groups that ran year round, one of them I led for 10 years, plus I was involved in a Catholic bible study with a pro life group in addition to the Bible study I ran at my parish. This was typical for all the parishes in my area. Where I live now it’s a small rural parish so we don’t have our own bible study but have one together with another parish.

Are you telling me that I witness throughout the Catholic world a love of scripture, an emphasis on scripture, a knowledge of scripture, and a focus on scripture to rival any Protestant church?

Um, yes. The Catholic Church loves scripture and teaches scripture. We also love the entirety of the Christian life of which scripture is only part.

Are you saying that the Catholic laity is encouraged to love scripture as much as the Eucharist?

Um, yes.

Are you saying that at every parish exists an opportunity to study the word of God?

As I mentioned above our parish is small and rural so group bible study is with another parish in the area. We provide a subscription to our parishioners for FORMED which has self study bible study opportunities.

I haven’t been to every parish in the world, I’m sure some do a better job than others. Just as I can tell you that the various Episcopal churches I belonged to before becoming Catholic varied widely in their emphasis on and opportunity to do bible study. Of the four I attended regularly (home, college, young adulthood) only 1 had adult bible study.

And the local Methodist Church in our town has zero bible studies and zero online resources for their parishioner. We do some ecumenical stuff with them and I get their newsletter.

I think you are trying to find issues with the Catholic Church as a whole, and basing that on your limited experience while viewing Protestant churches through rose colored glasses.

 

[edward_george1]

but neither is it taught in scripture that the Eucharist is the source and summit of a Christian’s faith.

Jesus himself says in John 6 that we must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life. Sounds like the source and summit to me.

I don’t see how there can be a dichotomy between word and Eucharist. The Eucharist is the Word of God, the Word made flesh. We worship Jesus in the Eucharist, and the written word helps us to understand him, but he is really present in the Eucharist. It’s not either/or, it’s not as though one is preferred to the other. It’s both, both the written word and the Word made flesh are cherished in the Church. The one is a sign of his presence, the other is a sign which is him truly present.

You are in my prayers.

 

[glencor63]

I grew up Protestant. I KNOW they have problems too. I love the Eucharist, which is why Anglo-Catholicism is where I’ll go.