What is the cause of poor catechesis?

[fide]

1ke:
Oh and let me just add that PARENTS are the primary educators of their children in the faith.

True, but is that good news or bad news, in this matter? Is this truth cause for hope? Or for greater fear of the future, when our current children become parents, charged with forming their children with the very poor understanding of the faith that they are gaining now while they are the children?

Formation in the Faith has been on the decline for several generations now - and the explanation I see is that we the Church continue to neglect solid, comprehensive, life-long adult formation. The children of every generation are receiving less and less at home, and so the graph continues to show a decline.

This trajectory is not sustainable, and yet the failed policy of “religious ed is for the children” and “do not offend the adults with their need for formation, lest they feel insulted” is clearly not realistic nor is it working.

 

[1ke]

Well, Catholics are unlikely to start any “Sunday School” other than for children who need to be in CCD on that day before or after Mass.

Two of our 4 bible study groups at my old parish are on Sunday mornings. The other two were on weeknights.

Our children’s religious ed was on Sunday mornings until we ran out of classroom space and the moved to Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons to accommodate all the kids with the number of rooms we had.

 

[1ke]

Why should the do what Christ left as the role of the shepherds?

Now you are being disingenuous. There are plenty of non-clergy run bible studies in Protestant churches. I’ve been a member of a number of them over the years.

We are all responsible for our spiritual growth. The Church is there to help. the shepherd do shepherd but they don’t eat and drink for the sheep. The sheep have to do that on their own.

 

[PetraG]

I am concerned that the Catholic hierarchy does not universally have a high view of scripture.

Read what they say and what they write. For instance, if you go to the USCCB website, they have posted the entire Bible online and say this: http://www.usccb.org/bible/understanding-the-bible/index.cfm

And, as I think has been pointed out, in the Catechism:
CCC 133 The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful. . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ. (Dei Verbum (Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation) 25; cf. Phil 3:8 and St. Jerome, Commentariorum in Isaiam libri xviii prol.L 24,17B.)

Having said that, Dei Verbum was promulgated just over 50 years ago. That’s not a long time; there are a lot of grandparents not brought up reading the Bible. That doesn’t mean the heirarchy isn’t interested in getting the faithful to read the Bible!

 

[edwest211]

I was there 50 years ago. Family Bibles were common. And along with Scripture, they had pages to record births, deaths and marriages.

 

[PetraG]

Thank you! I feel my concerns are largely dismissed. Telling me that the Eucharist is the source and summit of the Catholic faith and that I just need to be obedient and accept this does not help me. For me, the Eucharist is what I consume for grace. Scripture is what I need to live. Scripture on a regular basis and not just in the Mass. The Eucharist could disappear, but if I have the word I am at peace. Corrie Ten Boom miraculously smuggled a bible into Ravensbrück concentration camp. It sustained and helped her endure

The Eucharist is not a what, but rather a He, the Lord Himself!
Read John 6! If being told the Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian life doesn’t help you, read your Bible!

Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. . . . Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
(Jn 6:53-57)

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
(1 Cor. 11:23-29)

St. Paul rebuked the Corinthians for failing in their conduct at Mass, for failing to recognize the Lord. Where does he rebuke them because they’re not reading the Bible enough? Where in Holy Scriptures is there this idea that it is Holy Scriptures alone and not the one act of worship that is the Mass that is indispensible? It isn’t there! No, we live not alone before God but as the Body of Christ, made one by becoming one in Christ. This happens at Mass! Should we reflect on God’s holy word outside of Mass? Of course we should! Should we imagine that if we have enough Bible study we do not need the Eucharist? Heaven forbid!!

 

[PetraG]

I was there 50 years ago. Family Bibles were common. And along with Scripture, they had pages to record births, deaths and marriages.

Yes, but which was more common for a Catholic family: reading the Scriptures together or praying the Rosary together? The Rosary and the readings at Mass were by far the most common way to pray and reflect on the events recorded in the Gospels.

 

[edwest211]

What I am saying is Bibles were there. We were encouraged to read them, just like today.

 

[PetraG]

What I am saying is Bibles were there. We were encouraged to read them, just like today.

True. As I remember, we’d usually read the readings for Mass from the missal, rather than from the big family Bible. The smaller Bibles and study Bibles were not old-vintage like the big family Bibles were. It was the old missals that were worn out from reading, too, not the family Bible.

(I have to say we were also spared weirdo interpretations of Revelation… sorry to anybody in the “interpret-it-for-yourself” crowd, but a lot of odd ideas come from amateur Bible study.)

 

[glencor63]

Frank Sheed once lamented to a priest that it was a shame that the laity did not study theology. The priest looked at him and said, " Why should they study theology"? Frank Sheed was dumbfounded. You study what you love. This was in the 1920s.

 

[edward_george1]

I love and study scripture, and I’m happy to share that love with you and anyone who might be edified by that. It’s why I got into the priesthood.

 

[PetraG]

I should have studied the Roman-Catholic faith more in depth before converting. The Catholic Church has much to offer. I’ve grown tremendously over the decades, but it’s become clear that my worldview is more Protestant than Catholic. I thought I could reconcile myself to the teachings of the Church, but what I need and what the Catholic Church deems most important is in conflict. Hindsight is 20/20, unfortunately. I’ll start visiting other denominations.

This sounds a bit consumerist. I mean that when you recieved into the Church, you attested that you believe that what the Church teaches is true. If you believe it is true, why would you leave it? This is especially puzzling in light of the plain truth that nobody is preventing you from reading the Bible and no one is forcing you to pray the Rosary. What is the problem, exactly?

I’ve studied the faith, but I no longer want my faith walk to be soley focused on sacraments and the Eucharist. Scripture is very important to me. I want a faith that has a high view of scripture. When all else fades away, God’s word remains. The sacraments could cease tomorrow, but God’s word will never pass away.

The Eucharist and the Word of God are NOT in conflict!! When is there ever a Mass that omits the Liturgy of the Word? Never! What about communion services without a priest? It’s still there!!
God’s word teaches that the Eucharist was not instituted at the Last Supper as an unnecessary trifle. It is central to the Pascal Mystery. Every one of the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles are clear on that.

 

[JimG]

I am always a little amazed by threads like these. As a kid, I sometimes I thought that I didn’t know much scripture. But over the years, hearing the scripture readings at Mass over and over again, I discovered that I knew a lot more scripture than some of my non-Catholic friends. And some of their ministers preached fewer portions of the bible than what I heard at Mass.

For many Protestant congregations, scripture study effectively takes the place of worship. For Catholics, worship is primary, and worship consists of uniting ourseves to the sacrifice one of Jesus to his Father, at every Mass.

It is good to meditate quietly on the words of scripture. It is even better to meditate on scripture while in the very presence of Jesus in person in the adoration chapel.

It is not as though Jesus, on the day of his ascension, presented each of the apostles with a bound copy of the old and new testaments, telling them to read it every day and organize scripture studies. He didn’t of course, because such a thing did not exist. The synagogues had the old testament scriptures, in scrolls, which could be read to the congregation. But the new testament had not yet been written, or gathered and canonized, and would not be for several decades. The printing press would not exist for 1500 years, so nobody would be carrying around their own bibles, and a great many could not even read. That did not deprive them of salvation. The Mass was present from the beginning.

But monasteries eventually began to painstakingly produce entire bibles by hand. In the meantime the word could still be preached. And the scriptures permeate every aspect of Catholicism.

 

[goout]

Frank Sheed once lamented to a priest that it was a shame that the laity did not study theology. The priest looked at him and said, " Why should they study theology"? Frank Sheed was dumbfounded. You study what you love. This was in the 1920s.

You don’t have to love theology to love Jesus Christ. 99.9% of people have children to raise and sick parents and jobs to work and there is literally no time to study theology. We all have our gifts and vocations, and loving the Lord means accepting that responsibility joyfully.

 

[glencor63]

It was a huge mistake to convert to Catholicism. Now, I feel trapped in a religion I no longer agree with fundamentally. I should have discerned more carefully. A dear friend, now deceased was surprised I chose Catholicism. He was surprised I didn’t go East. I should have chosen Anglo-Catholicism, which is a healthy balance. I appreciate the comments. Just pray God helps me on my path. Thank you!

 

[edwest211]

Studying theology is different from reading the Bible. I had Religion Class for years that was based on the Bible and included Church teaching on various issues. One book was To Live Is Christ, Volume II: The Mystery of Christ. It is copyright 1966 Henry Regenery Co. and has the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.

 

[PetraG]

It was a huge mistake to convert to Catholicism. Now, I feel trapped in a religion I no longer agree with fundamentally. I should have discerned more carefully. A dear friend, now deceased was surprised I chose Catholicism. He was surprised I didn’t go East. I should have chosen Anglo-Catholicism, which is a healthy balance. I appreciate the comments. Just pray God helps me on my path. Thank you!

I will, but please do realize your light regard for the Eucharist isn’t biblical. The Eucharist and the teachings of the Magesterium have been central since the beginning of the Church.
They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers. Acts 2:42

Think about it: the Christian life revolved around the Holy Mass before there even WAS a New Testament. It is the new Testament that flowed out of the sacramental life of the Church, not the other way around. All those epistles? Written to communities devoted to the breaking of the bread.

Yes, the Lord himself disclosed the meaning of the Scriptures on the road to Emmaus, but it was in the breaking of the bread that He made Himself known: Then the two recounted what had taken place on the way and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread. Luke 24:35

Please reconsider your lack of fervor towards Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. This shouldn’t be an either/or question but a task of both/and.

 

[Brendan_64]

In fact the Eucharist is the source and summit of the faith

I think that the lack of appreciation of this by many Catholics is the major issue we face in terms of the faith of our congregations. I think that all catechetical programmes should start from the Eucharist at the centre, as to do otherwise runs the risk of Catholics thinking that, as Catholics we believe in a range of different things and the Eucharist is just one of the things we believe in.

 

[glencor63]

I believe in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. I’m going to start studying Soteriology to discover exactly which denomination I most closely resemble theologically. This is a difficult journey. God bless!

 

[1ke]

Convinced of 4 marks of the Church— one, holy, Catholic, apostolic— and it’s authority, I began to study in order to conform my mind and soul to the Truth, not to seek a group that would confirm me in my own error.