What is the cause of poor catechesis?

[Brendan_64]

I’m going to start studying Soteriology to discover exactly which denomination I most closely resemble theologically.

So you are looking to find which religion fits your own existing beliefs? Is that not looking at things upside down? How can you be so sure that what you believe is the truth? Perhaps read Matthew 16:18-19 and consider what that means in terms of the Church’s teaching authority.

 

[PetraG]

I believe in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist

You really have me confused. I thought you rote that you didn’t need the sacraments; you wouldn’t even miss them?

It has the right to teach that the Eucharist is the source and summit of the Catholic faith. It’s not what I believe anymore.

Why would you want the Church to teach the Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian life if you don’t believe that is true?
Don’t you see that it cannot possibly be the source and summit of the Christian life if it is not the Real Presence of Our Lord, not as if other kinds of presence are not real and but truly His Very Presence par excellence?

This isn’t a “if you want to believe that go ahead and believe that kind of thing.” Either the Eucharist deserves the worship due to God Himself or else it is idolatry! There isn’t an in-between, because the Church does not teach a “I have Grandma’s blanket and so I feel Grandma is always there for me” kind of presence in the Eucharist. The Church teaches a presence beyond which another presence could be more sensibly comprehensible but even then that no presence could be one little bit more real!

I’m going to start studying Soteriology to discover exactly which denomination I most closely resemble theologically. This is a difficult journey. God bless!

Who does that with any other kind of knowledge? You don’t look for a piece of the truth that resembles you. You look for the truth, the pearl of great price, and when you find it, well, it is fire sale city on everything else you have. You sell everything you value and you put all your eggs in that basket, because it is where all the value is. We don’t learn about ourselves and then go out and find the truth that fits. We learn the truth and then we look at ourselves all over again and in that true light we finally understand who we have always been.

 

[Dovekin]

I believe in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. I’m going to start studying Soteriology to discover exactly which denomination I most closely resemble theologically. This is a difficult journey. God bless!

Long before the birth of Christ, the LORD encouraged devotion to the Word of God. This is the world we grew out of, and that we struggle to live up to. The Word is in our lives. The Eucharist is the result of the Word in prayer uniting with the matter of the bread; withoutthe Word there is no Eucharist.

Hear, O Israel!
The LORD is our God, the LORD alone!
Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with your whole heart, and with your whole being, and with your whole strength.

Take to heart these words which I command you today. Keep repeating them to your children. Recite them when you are at home and when you are away, when you lie down and when you get up.
Bind them on your arm as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead.
Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.
Deuteronomy 6: 4-9

 

[De_Maria]

What is the cause of poor catechesis?​

Lack of interest.

You can’t mandate “learning”. If the student isn’t interested, he won’t learn.

If a student is interested, he will take it upon himself to learn what he is interested in learning. As the old saying goes, where there’s a will, there’s a way.

 

[PetraG]

You can’t mandate “learning”. If the student isn’t interested, he won’t learn.

What are the quotation marks for? If there is no mandate on the days the interest isn’t there, good luck.

When we as students are presented with things we have some duty to know, we need to have been taught that we have part of the duty of rousing our own interest. Likewise, when we’re talking to another human being whom we find boring, they are still human beings with a dignity that requires our attention, whether we feel like giving it or not. That doesn’t mean our teachers or our conversational partners have carte blanche to be as boring as they like, but just that we don’t let ourselves off the hook when they are.

If someone says they love God but they have no interest in knowing anything about God? Well, what would you say to someone who claims to love you but who has no interest in knowing you? Is that love? Should religion students not have some idea that rousing an interest is a duty because of Who it is they are learning about?

Again, we who are teachers have a duty to express enthusiasm and creativity and so on that our subject deserves, and even more so when the subject is God Himself. Having said that, the student should never be given the impression that the whole enterprise is on the back of the teacher making the work seem like a joy all of the time. Scholarship does not work like that!!

 

[edwest211]

That was never true in Catholic schools until the 1970s. Parents expected their kids to learn. Parents expected good report cards. At one time, parents could rely on teachers, lay or religious, to give their children a good education regarding the faith, the Mass and other subjects to increase knowledge which was meant to be acted upon. Avoid the 7 deadly sins. Learn the 10 Commandments and how they apply to you. And so on.

 

[PetraG]

That was never true in Catholic schools until the 1970s. Parents expected their kids to learn. Parents expected good report cards.

My dad wasn’t a slave driver about grades, but As in religion and citizenship were not negotiable.

 

[edwest211]

“citizenship” gasp. A concept that needs revival.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

You can’t mandate “learning”. If the student isn’t interested, he won’t learn.

What are the quotation marks for?

To emphasize and highlight the word. I am making a distinction between the personal responsibility to learn and the idea that someone can put something into an unwilling particpant’s head. That is normally called “teaching”.

If there is no mandate on the days the interest isn’t there, good luck.

Exactly my point.

When we as students are presented with things we have some duty to know, we need to have been taught that we have part of the duty of rousing our own interest.

How do you do that? How do you rouse an uninterested, apathetic person’s interest?

Likewise, when we’re talking to another human being whom we find boring, they are still human beings with a dignity that requires our attention, whether we feel like giving it or not.

Good luck getting a bored person’s attention, especially in this age when everyone has a cell phone with wifi.

That doesn’t mean our teachers or our conversational partners have carte blanche to be as boring as they like, but just that we don’t let ourselves off the hook when they are.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. How many students have graduated high school without having learned to read?

If someone says they love God but they have no interest in knowing anything about God? Well, what would you say to someone who claims to love you but who has no interest in knowing you? Is that love? Should religion students not have some idea that rousing an interest is a duty because of Who it is they are learning about?

They absolutely should. But do they?

Again, we who are teachers have a duty to express enthusiasm and creativity and so on that our subject deserves, and even more so when the subject is God Himself. Having said that, the student should never be given the impression that the whole enterprise is on the back of the teacher making the work seem like a joy all of the time. Scholarship does not work like that!!

Exactly. The major responsibility is on the student.

 

[De_Maria]

That was never true in Catholic schools until the 1970s.

Basically, that’s a myth. I know people who graduated from Catholic Schools before the 1970’s and they are just as clueless as everyone else. The 1970’s was a time when people were falling away from the Church. If the Catechetics had been so good in prior days, this wouldn’t have happened.

People like to blame the Church for not teaching. But the onus is on us for not learning. Mea Culpa, is true about almost everything.

Parents expected their kids to learn.

Parents still expect their kids to learn. Name one parent that sends his kid to the exorbitantly priced Catholic Schools in order to fail?

Parents expected good report cards. At one time, parents could rely on teachers, lay or religious, to give their children a good education regarding the faith, the Mass and other subjects to increase knowledge which was meant to be acted upon. Avoid the 7 deadly sins. Learn the 10 Commandments and how they apply to you. And so on.

Parents need to lead by example. You can’t give what you don’t have. If you want your children to learn the Ten Commandments, learn them yourself. So when they ask you, you can answer instead of saying, “ask your teacher.”

 

[edwest211]

Not a myth. There were a few who did not take the class as seriously as they should have. But their report card would have showed that.

 

[Sarcelle]

In fact it says in Scripture itself there were a lot of things Jesus did which were not written down.

 

[glencor63]

I believe in the true presence, but I don’t think sacraments are more important than scripture. I
have a high view of scripture and feel that so much emphasis is placed on the sacraments and the Eucharist that they supercede scripture which should have a prime position in the life of the Church.

 

[De_Maria]

I believe in the true presence, but I don’t think sacraments are more important than scripture…

So, you believe that a book is more important than Jesus?