What Is The Cause Of Priestly Debauchery?

[Tis_Bearself]

it would help to require all priests to marry

So you think married men do not molest minors, have gay sex, or commit debauched acts?

Think again. Marriage does not mean a man will not sin in these ways. The only difference when a man is married is his wife and any children they might have must cope with his sinful behavior instead of just himself.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We are called to do penance in reparation for the sins committed by others. Not only is this in Scripture but also if one believes in the approved private revelations such as Marian apparitions, it is a constant theme of those too.

Our doing penance and prayer helps atone for the sins of others and brings God’s grace to the entire Church as well as to ourselves individually.

As for how many are doing it, there was a pretty good crowd at the Philadelphia cathedral night of reparation. Some parishes are also having special Masses for the Church. And just about every parish is adding this issue to the General Intercessions, so even if somebody isn’t doing other fasting and prayer, they are adding their prayers at Mass.

 

[Gab123]

I can see how an individual fasting could help make that individual an uncomfortable place to dwell in but in what way would me fasting help the Church?
This is a genuine query.

The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. Thus as a member of the Church you either help or harm the Church. When we sin we harm the Church, likewise when we fast and sacrifice for the Church the whole Church benefits. The whole point of a monastery or a cloistered convents is to act as a heart of prayer to give life to the Church. There’s a reason why St Therese of Lisieux, who was a cloistered nun, is the patroness of missions and missionaries, because she devoted her life and sacrifices for the success of foreign missions. Likewise, the laity has a role of prayer, especially these days when convents and monasteries have dried up or been infested with the spirit of the demonic. People need to understand the reality of a spiritual WAR that HELL and the army of wicked spirits wages against the Church and it’s members. Spiritual wars have to be fought spiritually not simply loud outrage on blogs and websites which only cause division and hate, thus foolishly doing the devil’s work against the Church.

St Paul describes the Church as one body:

Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body. . . . If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 1 Cor:12:12-26

 

[Gab123]

As for how many are doing it, there was a pretty good crowd at the Philadelphia cathedral night of reparation

The Church has 1 billion members, I wonder what percent of members heed the call. The pope is urging the Church to fast and pray, how many actually do what will solve the problem? There’s a reason why God allows suffering, loss of freedoms and persecution; only then does the Church start supplications in prayer and penance. It’s the same story we read in the Old Teatament with the unfaithful Israelites. Unfortunately it’s not until one personally feels real turbulence on a flight that the prayers and promises start flowing like a fountain…

 

[buffalo]

The root cause is the high number of active homosexuals in the priesthood. They are 2% in the general population and some report as high as 50% in the priesthood.

This has infected the priesthood and the Church as we can see.

Just think - if the homosexual acts upon post-pubescent and older male is removed from the John Jay Criminal College Study, there would be no “crisis”. Yes, there was abuse, but nowhere near what we now know.

In addition, we may not have the lack of priests as the priesthood would be understood to be a masculine vocation. Sadly, many men reject considering it, because of the effeminate nature it has become.

The elephant in the room is still being ignored by the Bishops (embarassment) and the media (political correctness and agenda).

Even though in the 1960’s and then more recently the Vatican stated men with deep seated homosexual tendencies should not be ordained, it has been ignored because these priests now are in positions of authority and let it go or encourage it.

 

[buffalo]

St. Peter Damian’s Book of Gomorrah: A Moral Blueprint for Our Times - Part I​

Considering that the Book of Gomorrah was written in 1049 A.D. it borders on the miraculous to note how many of Damian’s insights can be applied to the current pederast and homosexual debacle here in the United States and abroad, including the Vatican. His treatise certainly stands as a masterful refutation of contemporary homosexual apologists who claim that the early Fathers of the Church did not understand the nature or dynamics of homosexuality. Rather, as Damian’s work demonstrates, the degradation of human nature as exemplified by sodomical acts is a universal phenomenon that transcends time, place and culture.

One of the main points of the Book of Gomorrah, is the author’s insistence on the responsibility of the bishop or superior of a religious order to curb and eradicate the vice from their ranks. [7] He minces no words in his condemnation of those prelates who refuse or fail to take a strong hand in dealing with clerical sodomical practices either because of moral indifferentism or the inability to face up to a distasteful and potentially scandalous situation. [8]

https://www.ourladyswarriors.org/articles/damian1.htm

 

[Tis_Bearself]

if the homosexual acts upon post-pubescent and older male is removed from the John Jay Criminal College Study, there would be no “crisis”.

Because it’s not a problem if priests abuse minor and adult females? Or have consensual relations with adult females? I don’t think so. And a lot of priests have done these things.

 

[buffalo]

Because it’s not a problem if priests abuse minor and adult females? Or have consensual relations with adult females? I don’t think so. And a lot of priests have done these things.

Everyone of these is bad.

The numbers would be relatively low. Look at the numbers yourself. Do the math.

 

[Lee1]

Thank you @gab123 and @Tis_Bearself, as I read your replies I realised that I knew some of what you have said, for some reason it had slipped my mind.

 

[steve-b]

The entire World is now focused on the unfolding news of Priest’s sexual abuse and Bishop’s cover ups. What should Pope Francis do to change the Culture of Debauchery, and what has caused it in the first place ?

Who is Satan going to focus on attacking relentlessly? Our Lord’s clergy from lowest in rank to highest. THAT’S his plan of division. As Jesus put it,

Lk 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you,[d] that he might sift you[e] like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for you (singular)that your faith may not fail; and when you(singular) have turned again, strengthen your brethren.”

Ergo Satan has been allowed to sift everyone, particularly the clergy. Just as the angels were tested, and 1/3 failed , now it is our turn to be tested. Unfortunately, most of us fail in the end as in few are saved because humanity blows it

 

[Flor]

However, if you look at all of the creatures God created, all of them need and display love for each other. Marriage isn’t all about Sex. The basic primal need for touch and love and intimacy is normal and endowed by our Creator. Factory Installed, if you will. No one is higher in rank or more on a Pedestal or more Holy etc etc because they are celibate. No one is less all those things if they are married. It’s easy to see that for some, attempting to be Celibate forever is mind bending because it goes against the natural needs installed by Creator. Priests were not always required to be celibate. And again, it’s not all about sexual release, but the nature of needing to love and be loved. To require strict celibacy is cruel in many cases. Very few humans can just take that in stride.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s easy to see that for some, attempting to be Celibate forever is mind bending because it goes against the natural needs installed by Creator.

Much of our faith practice, including celibacy for priests and religious, monogamy for married men, fasting and self-mortification in general goes against the way we would “naturally” behave if not for God’s laws.

I’m not buying this “men naturally need sex” business. People do not die or become mentally ill or sexually perverted because they don’t get to have sex.

 

[Lee1]

Maybe a man won’t die if he doesn’t have sex but it can feel that way! The strength of the sex drive obviously varies from male to male, I once read a man describing the loss of his libido as a wonderful release, he said all his life he had felt as though handcuffed to a madman!

I’m sure there’s lots of research done on this in psychology but generally speaking I’d say that sometimes the need to satisfy the drive can overpower reason in some men.

 

[AlNg]

32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord. 1 Cor. 7:32-35

You are following St. Paul here. Do you also follow him when he says that women are to stay silent in church and are to wear headcovering?

 

[AlNg]

You cannot require someone to attend seminary training.
It can be required as a condition for ordination.

 

[AlNg]

Seminary training is one requirement for ordination. No one is forced to undergo seminary training. Similarly, no one is forced to marry, but it could be a requirement for ordination.

 

[steve-b]

Gab123:

32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord. 1 Cor. 7:32-35

You are following St. Paul here. Do you also follow him when he says that women are to stay silent in church and are to wear headcovering?

Actually pre Vatican II women wore head coverings in mass. Post Vat II that is found to be more of a cultural issue, OR tradition. Point being, head covering is voluntary and today head covering is rare.

As for women’s silence in church, that had to do with preaching. Since Priests are men, that is still the norm for men to preach at mass… Women have always been in choirs, and Post Vat II, can volunteer to read at mass and be extraordinary Eucharistic ministers at mass.

 

[AlNg]

My humble proposal is that it be a requirement as it is in some Orthodox districts.

 

[Gab123]

You are following St. Paul here. Do you also follow him when he says that women are to stay silent in church and are to wear headcovering?

Understand that celibacy in the priesthood is a discipline, not a doctrine, the same with women wearing veils in church or being silent. Obviously the Church has changed certain disciplines throughout the ages. But as any married man with a family can tell you, marriage is a full time vocation with plenty of challenges and hardships of its own, not to mention feeding a family and raising and education children. As for celibacy in the priesthood, this is a 7 year discernment before a man takes a vow. Obviously priests who break that vow are no different than men who break their vow to their wife and commit adultery.

 

[AlNg]

AlNg:

You are following St. Paul here. Do you also follow him when he says that women are to stay silent in church and are to wear headcovering?

Understand that celibacy in the priesthood is a discipline, not a doctrine, the same with women wearing veils in church or being silent. Obviously the Church has changed certain disciplines throughout the ages. But as any married man with a family can tell you, marriage is a full time vocation with plenty of challenges and hardships of its own, not to mention feeding a family and raising and education children. As for celibacy in the priesthood i¡this is 7 year discernment before a man takes a vow. Obviously priests who break that vow are no different than men who break their vow to their wife and commit adultery.

Why quote St. Paul on celibacy but not on women wearing headcovering in church?