What is the Christian Old Testament called in the Jewish Faith?

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I’d like to be able to discuss scripture with my Jewish brother in law and I’d like to be able to get my terms correct. What is the Christian Old Testament referred to in the Jewish Faith? Do they believe in all the books that the Catholic Old Testament contains?

I apologize for my ignorance, but out of respect for his beliefs I’d like to get my terms correct.

God Bless,
Gary
 
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gez722:
I’d like to be able to discuss scripture with my Jewish brother in law and I’d like to be able to get my terms correct. What is the Christian Old Testament referred to in the Jewish Faith? Do they believe in all the books that the Catholic Old Testament contains?

I apologize for my ignorance, but out of respect for his beliefs I’d like to get my terms correct.

God Bless,
Gary
I believe they call it the Torah. They accept all the books except Wisdom, Eclesiasticus, Tobit, Judith, Baruch, and 1 and 2 Machabees.
 
The Jews refer to the Old Testament simply as “The Bible” or “The Hebrew Bible.”

The Torah refers specifically to the first five books, called the “Books of Moses”: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
 
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gez722:
I’d like to be able to discuss scripture with my Jewish brother in law and I’d like to be able to get my terms correct. What is the Christian Old Testament referred to in the Jewish Faith? Do they believe in all the books that the Catholic Old Testament contains?

I apologize for my ignorance, but out of respect for his beliefs I’d like to get my terms correct.

God Bless,
Gary
The Torah is the books of the Law.
The Tanach is what we would term the Old Testament.

Here is a link for comparison.
sacred-texts.com/bib/jps/

🙂 Melissa
 
Hi all!

Our Sages (at Yavneh/Jamnia, after the destruction of the 2nd Temple in CE 70 :crying: & before the Bar Kochba Revolt in CE 132-135) excluded the so-called Apocryphal books from the Tanakh (what we call what you call the “Old Testament”) for several reasons. Ferinstance, I Maccabees, while considered to be very historically accurate & written by a believing Jew, was not considered to be Divinely inspired. The Prayer of Manasseh, while quite moving & a spiritual gem, was considered to be inauthentic (i.e., not by King Manasseh) as well as uninspired. Other books were considered to contain/be full of/ nonsense (i.e. ideas that didn’t jibe with the Torah), as well as inauthentic and/or uninspired.

We (orthodox Jews) believe that whereas the Torah (Genesis to Deuteronomy) has existed in its current form since God finished dictating it to Moses our Teacher, the other books of the Tanakh were codified and “canonized” by our Sages.

We believe that the authorship of the 39 books of the Tanakh is as follows:

Genesis to Deuteronomy: God dictated, Moses wrote it down.

Joshua wrote his own book.

Judges was written by Samuel.

I & II Samuel were written by Samuel and other prophets & chroniclers such as Gad and Nathan.

I & II Kings are compilations.

Isaiah wrote his own book.

Jeremiah wrote his own book.

Ezekiel wrote his own book.

Hosea wrote his own book.

Joel wrote his own book.

Amos wrote his own book.

Ovadiah wrote his own book.

Jonah wrote his own book.

Micah wrote his own book.

Nahum wrote his own book.

Habakkuk wrote his own book.

Zephaniah wrote his own book.

Haggai wrote his own book.

Zechariah wrote his own book.

There is disagreement about Malachi. The word “malachi” literally means “my messenger.” Some of our Sages say that such a man with such a name wrote the book. Other Sages identify Malachi with Ezra.

Psalms was written by King David, King Solomon, Asaph, Heiman, etc.

Proverbs was written by King Solomon, Agur and Lemuel.

The verdict is still out on Job. Some say it was written by Job himself. Others say that the book is a parable.

Song of Songs was written by King Solomon.

Ruth was written by Samuel.

Lamentations was written by Jeremiah.

Ecclesiastes was written by King Solomon.

Esther was written by Esther and Mordecai.

Daniel wrote his own book.

Ezra wrote his own book.

Nehemiah wrote his own book.

I & II Chronicles were written by Ezra.

The above is the order in which the books appear in a Jewish Tanakh.

The first 5 books are the Torah (also known as the “Pentateuch”). The next 21 are the Prophets, or Nevi’im, in Hebrew. The next 13 are the Writings, or Ketuvim, in Hebrew. Hence the acronym Tanakh (which is what we call what you call the “OT”).

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
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stillsmallvoice:
Hi all!

Our Sages (at Yavneh/Jamnia, after the destruction of the 2nd Temple in CE 70 :crying: & before the Bar Kochba Revolt in CE 132-135) excluded the so-called Apocryphal books from the Tanakh (what we call what you call the “Old Testament”) for several reasons. Ferinstance, I Maccabees, while considered to be very historically accurate & written by a believing Jew, was not considered to be Divinely inspired. The Prayer of Manasseh, while quite moving & a spiritual gem, was considered to be inauthentic (i.e., not by King Manasseh) as well as uninspired. Other books were considered to contain/be full of/ nonsense (i.e. ideas that didn’t jibe with the Torah), as well as inauthentic and/or uninspired.

We (orthodox Jews) believe that whereas the Torah (Genesis to Deuteronomy) has existed in its current form since God finished dictating it to Moses our Teacher, the other books of the Tanakh were codified and “canonized” by our Sages.

We believe that the authorship of the 39 books of the Tanakh is as follows:

Genesis to Deuteronomy: God dictated, Moses wrote it down.

Joshua wrote his own book.

Judges was written by Samuel.

I & II Samuel were written by Samuel and other prophets & chroniclers such as Gad and Nathan.

I & II Kings are compilations.

Isaiah wrote his own book.

Jeremiah wrote his own book.

Ezekiel wrote his own book.

Hosea wrote his own book.

Joel wrote his own book.

Amos wrote his own book.

Ovadiah wrote his own book.

Jonah wrote his own book.

Micah wrote his own book.

Nahum wrote his own book.

Habakkuk wrote his own book.

Zephaniah wrote his own book.

Haggai wrote his own book.

Zechariah wrote his own book.

There is disagreement about Malachi. The word “malachi” literally means “my messenger.” Some of our Sages say that such a man with such a name wrote the book. Other Sages identify Malachi with Ezra.

Psalms was written by King David, King Solomon, Asaph, Heiman, etc.

Proverbs was written by King Solomon, Agur and Lemuel.

The verdict is still out on Job. Some say it was written by Job himself. Others say that the book is a parable.

Song of Songs was written by King Solomon.

Ruth was written by Samuel.

Lamentations was written by Jeremiah.

Ecclesiastes was written by King Solomon.

Esther was written by Esther and Mordecai.

Daniel wrote his own book.

Ezra wrote his own book.

Nehemiah wrote his own book.

I & II Chronicles were written by Ezra.

The above is the order in which the books appear in a Jewish Tanakh.

The first 5 books are the Torah (also known as the “Pentateuch”). The next 21 are the Prophets, or Nevi’im, in Hebrew. The next 13 are the Writings, or Ketuvim, in Hebrew. Hence the acronym Tanakh (which is what we call what you call the “OT”).

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
ssv,

Thanks for the information… that’s exactly what I needed to know!
 
I know that Maccabees 1 and 2 are not in the Protestant bible, but since they have the story of what is now celebrated as Hannakuah (forgive the spelling) I think the old testement that our Jewish Brothers and sisters study would include it. Its a very important part of their history - about the oil lasting for 8 days. That’s one of the reasons why Hannakauh (forgive the spelling again) lasts for 8 days.
 
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gez722:
Melissa,

Thanks!
You are welcome. 😃

I am positive that stillsmallvoice would be able to explain other things better than I could. He lives it.

👋 stillsmallvoice

🙂 Melissa
 
Hi all!

Hi Melissa! 🙂
Truthseeker 4:
I am positive that stillsmallvoice would be able to explain other things better than I could. He lives it.
Yes, I love it/live it.

Just don’t ask me to explain the Very Big Things, such as why the Pirates were the National League doormats again :crying: . There are certain things that are simply beyond human ken! Other than stuff like that, I’ll do my best.

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
To tack on one more question here,

How did the Jews keep track of the page/passage before there was chapters and verse numbers? How did they know where to start and stop each reading?
I asked this on another forum, but they didnt really know.

Also,do they contain the number references now or is there a restriction on adding extra numbers to the sacred texts?
 
Hi all!
Catholic Dude:
How did the Jews keep track of the page/passage before there was chapters and verse numbers?
Memory & tradition.
Catholic Dude:
How did they know where to start and stop each reading?
Memory & tradition.
Catholic Dude:
Also,do they contain the number references now or is there a restriction on adding extra numbers to the sacred texts?
See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh#Chapters_and_verse_numbers.2C_book_divisions & jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=265&letter=T&search=Torah#994.

Most Hebrew editions of the Tanakh, from Jewish publishing houses, relegate the “modern” chapter & verse divisions to the margins of the page.

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
Actually, ‘chapter & Verse’ is a modernist affectation in the Bible. I believe that it came in only in the late 15th Century, as a response and solution to some technical problems brought on by the Printing Press. 😃
 
Catholic Dude:
To tack on one more question here,

How did the Jews keep track of the page/passage before there was chapters and verse numbers? How did they know where to start and stop each reading?
I asked this on another forum, but they didnt really know.

Also,do they contain the number references now or is there a restriction on adding extra numbers to the sacred texts?
Actually the Christian Bible wasn’t divided onto chapters until the 13th centurey and into verses in the 16th century.
 
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