What is the church of Christ?

[Odell]

Thanks guys this is some good stuff

 

[Odell]

However, they don’t believe in infant baptism. They believe in adult believers baptism. If you were to join their church and were infant baptized they would rebaptize you. They only believe in baptism by immersion, no sprinkling.

so I can touch up on baptism replacing circumsision and Peter or Paul (cant remember) being Baptized in his house standing (spinkling)

They are interesting in that they have no instrumental music in their worship service. They sing acapello (sp?) They do this because there are no examples of instrumental music in the new testament worship.

I see no problem with acapello but isnt there musical instruments in Revelation?

They claim to follow only the new testament example.
They claim to speak where the Bible Speaks and keep silent on matters that are silent in scripture.

But didnt Paul tell people to search the scriptures (Old Testament)
To see Jesus and didnt Jesus himself do the same?

I think the biggest difference is that this church was founded by Warren Stone & Alexander Campbell in Kentucky in 1836 .

do all Church of Christ believe this? If I was to say something about them not being the original Chruch would they realize when they were founded?

Church of Christ members almost always reject miracles and Saints, however they do believe in angels and spiritual warfare, though it is not talked about.

So I need to also touch up on miracles performed by Peter and the other apostles

Thanks for the help and let me know if you guys have anything else.

 

[sarita]

It really depends on what flavor of church of Christ you’re dealing with. I’m a convert (Tiber Swim Team 2007) from the non-institutional variety. Meaning:

If there’s a fellowship hall - you’re going to hell
If there’s a kitchen - you’re going to hell.
If the congregation supports any charity or school - you’re going to hell (it’s okay for each individual member to do this on his or her own).
If you use “the instrument” in worship - you’re going to hell.

Do you get my drift?

There were two churches of Christ in my town and we were not allowed to fellowhip with the other group because they had a kitchen and daycare in their building.

Most members will not be able to give you an affirmative statement of what they believe. I was born ‘n’ raised and I can tell you what we DIDN’T believe, but not what we did believe.

The New Testament is the primary rule but the Old Testament is seen as useful (especially when it’s needed to back up a point.)

I’ve seen some amazing mental gymnastics used to get around the fact that the wine was really wine.

You can check out the Preacher’s Files (you’ll have to google, I’m NOT going to link) for a fairly representative version of the CoC beliefs.

There’s also a forum for those of us who have converted from the CoC to Catholicism. We’re always more than happy to give advice on how to approach a CoC member.

 

[BMCD]

I did not do a good job of addressing two things earlier. First, any miracles performed in the New Testament are considered valid. Church of Christ members simply reject any miracles performed after the time of the New Testament. Second, I must say that I went to a Church of Christ elementary, middle school, and high school and I was a senior before I heard about Alexander Campbell. Many Church of Christ members do not look at history very well. Interestingly enough, the only time I have heard history really used was when backing up the use of acapella music (They quoted some ECFs).

Getting a Church of Christ member to look at history will make a real impact because that got me really thinking about the Catholic faith. Getting them to look at history is the hard part though.

 

[sarita]

Excellent point about Alexander Campbell, BMCD. I was in college before I ever heard his name mentioned.

 

[Odell]

Getting a Church of Christ member to look at history will make a real impact because that got me really thinking about the Catholic faith. Getting them to look at history is the hard part though.

What history impacted you the most?

thanks for your help and everyone else

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Hey JTBC…After reading your signature, I was wondering what is your biggest obstacle with the Church?

I don’t know that I can say a particular one is bigger than any other. I’m sure that authority has to be the foundation of the problem b/c once you can establish that, the rest is pretty easy - but as of yet I’ve had no success in being convinced. I have had a lingering bit of faith in the RP though so I’m actually coming at my studies from that angle right now.

At this point I think its going to take some divine intervention if you wouldn’t mind offering a small prayer for me

Bless You~

 

[BMCD]

What history impacted you the most?

For me it started by thinking about the gap between 300 AD and Alexander Campbell. I always wondered how the Church of Christ can be the true church if they were not founded until the early 1800s. Next I started reading some of the Early Church Fathers talking about the Eucharist, and I read the didache (any way you look at it baptism by pouring goes against the Church of Christ).

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I’m confused (nothing new there though, really ).

Why are fellowship halls and kitchens bad? And Sarita said supporting a school sends you to hell, but BMCD said he (she?) went to a cofC school. Sarita, would your (former) church say BMCD’s was damned?

This is fascinating, what folks can “find” in the bible when they really want to.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[BMCD]

Why are fellowship halls and kitchens bad? And Sarita said supporting a school sends you to hell, but BMCD said he (she?) went to a cofC school. Sarita, would your (former) church say BMCD’s was damned?

The non institutional churches of Christ consider my group to be lost. They believe that fellowship halls and schools are bad because they weren’t in the Bible. I may as well be an atheist to them because I go to a church that has a fellowship hall. To show one difference between the two groups in the is that some call it the church of Christ while I have always attended a Church of Christ.

The problem with the Church of Christ is that each church has its own leadership. The like minded congregations sometimes get together for retreats or devotionals, but at the end of the day each church is governed on its own. One local church split because some people wanted to worship at each other’s houses. The Church of Christ structure in an of itself is set up so that any man can go out and start his own church if he does not like something. This anarchy among the groups I have grown up in yet another reason why I am seriously considering Catholicism.

 

[sarita]

BMCD was one of them thar’ lib’rul apostates

Seriously - that’s what I was taught in Sunday school. Things like instrumental music and fellowship halls are salvation issues. The antis (another name for non-institutional) have their own unofficial network but there’s no defined church government. Decisions are made by a handful of men at each local congregation.

I don’t know about BMCD, but we also didn’t celebrate Christmas or Easter.

 

[BMCD]

My church celebrates Christmas and Easter, but more as a secular holiday. We get presents and put up Christmas trees in our houses. The only time there is a Christmas service is if Christmas happens to fall on a Sunday. If it does we sing Christmas music as we do around Christmas time. Easter is the day when more people come to church to please their families, everyone dresses up, and the children all get peeps and chocolate bunnies.

My church even has big television screens so that everyone can watch the preacher, read sermon notes, or see the words to the songs. I have visited some of the stricter Churches of Christ and it is like going to a different denomination. I must admit that I have never visited a church of Christ though.

I would still not say we are normal though. Our wedding receptions have no dancing or alcohol, and my high school could not have a prom because it was Church of Christ school, so we had a junior/senior banquet instead. It was basically a catered meal where everyone dressed up.

 

[Lampo]

I don’t know that I can say a particular one is bigger than any other. I’m sure that authority has to be the foundation of the problem b/c once you can establish that, the rest is pretty easy - but as of yet I’ve had no success in being convinced. I have had a lingering bit of faith in the RP though so I’m actually coming at my studies from that angle right now.

At this point I think its going to take some divine intervention if you wouldn’t mind offering a small prayer for me

Bless You~

I said a prayer for you and I’ll offer an undesignated rosary bead for your continued conversion of heart towards God and His Church. I’ve heard that for a lot of converts to Catholicism, the authority of the Catholic Church is what ultimately brings them into the faith.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

But so many things aren’t in the bible, how do you keep from becoming like the Amish? I mean, electricity, telephones and cars also aren’t in the bible. Or is it just church/worship related things? Don’t they realize that the bible was written when Christianity was outlawed, so they couldn’t even build churches, much less fellowship halls and schools? The Christians then were just trying to stay alive and spread the gospel. If the cofC is going to be really consistent, then they need to get rid of the church buildings altogether, because I believe the earliest believers met in the synogogues on Saturday, then in different houses on Sunday for “the breaking of the Bread” (Eucharist). What do they do about weddings? Outside of Cana, which was a Jewish wedding feast, Christian weddings aren’t mentioned at all. Does cofC forbid church weddings, and have members just get married at the courthouse?

Boy, just when I think I’d heard everything!

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[sarita]

Ellen - electric, etc are “expedients.” They’re not mentioned in the Bible, but it’s okay to use them because they aid in worship. The hermeneutic the CoC tends to use is called CENI - Command, Example, Necessary Inference. Matters of faith and worship are either explicitly commanded, shown by biblical example or one can make the necessary inference that the practice is acceptable from various biblical passages.

Views on weddings vary - my particular flavor of CoC didn’t allow the building to be used for weddings. The ministers would perform weddings though. My brother was married by my uncle in my uncle’s living room.

 

[BMCD]

I agree that it makes absolutely no sense to believe that fellowship halls and kitchens are wrong while having a building with electricity for worship, but I know of a church split that occurred because some people thought that it was more Biblical to worship in each others houses. This is an example of what can happen when sola scriptura is taken to the extreme.

As far as weddings are concerned, there are weddings in the CofC churches, but a courthouse wedding is just as valid as a church wedding because marriage is not considered a sacrament (I should know I got married in a courthouse). I don’t think that really differs from other protestant denominations though.

 

[tparsons]

Am I reading this right? You are Catholic, but your new friends belong to the Church of Christ? And you want to know the differences and similarities between the Church of Christ and the Catholic Church?

If you mean Church of Christ, a lot depends on “which one?”

There are four different Churches of Christ in a neighboring community. Unlike Catholics, who can attend Mass in any Catholic Church in a given town, they do not normally attend services or assemblies somewhere other than their “home” church.

I can only give you information on one particular one, to which some good friends of ours belong, and it will be eye-opening. Go to www.bible.ca. This may not necessarily cover the Church of Christ to which your friends belong, but I know it’s the one our friends belong to (I did the search to find where “true Christians are assembling” in our community… and their church was listed.)

I hope this helps and good luck with your friendship.

What an irritating website.

 

[auhsoj88]

They claim to follow only the new testament example.
They claim to speak where the Bible Speaks and keep silent on matters that are silent in scripture.

Yes, I got told this one time also by a coC member. So I asked him where in the bible does it say this? To this day, no answer…

In Chris!

 

[auhsoj88]

But didnt Paul tell people to search the scriptures (Old Testament)
To see Jesus and didnt Jesus himself do the same?

.

The Bereans searched the scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true (ie, OT prophesies of Jesus), they were NOT searching the scriptures to come up with different interpretations, or to find another church.

We have over 30,000 denoms all because they all claim to “search the scriptures”…

The Bereans listened to Pual and believed.

IN Christ

 

[TNT]

Very similar to the JW’s in disfellowshipping you, even your blood relatives including next of kin will disassociate with you.
“…Treat him as a heathen or publican.”
Leave the COC and you pretty much get the axe.

Ok, by my unscientific survey, about 70% of COC who go Catholic is because of the Literal Real Presence.
Once you get them to admit that Jn 6 is fulfilled in the Last Supper, which they are obstinate about denying because of the consequences, they’re half way there. The rest depends on how well they can resist peer pressure…mostly they cannot.

Then the ECFathers reading reinforces it greatly.

“Unless you eat the flesh of the Son…and drink His Blood you have NOOOOOO life in you.”

“My Flesh is Meat indeed, My Blood is Drink indeed…” .
Indeed is a VOW, not just a fun word in the NT.

“This is my Body, This is My Blood…”

Stay with Jn 6 & the Last Supper discourse…beat it to death.
Then the ECF’s who all believed what we do about it with greater or lesser clarity…beat that to death too.
Why bo you believe in the Baptists on this and not the ECF’s?

Break that barrier and you can make progress…Yes.

From there to the Pope/Peter principle.

No COC preacher will give a sermon on that part of Jn 6…it’s anathema to them for the most part, I mean “catholic”.

BTW:
James Akin, Catholic Answers Director of Apologetics and Evangelization I believe was a convert from the COC.
If not, well, he looks the part:http://www.catholic.com/Images/seminars/akin.jpg

See also:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3220871

Sincerely,
Having fun in the COC world.