What is the Church's attitude on a Catholic State?

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Ok, so by doing a number of Google Searches of CAF, there have been quite a number of threads on CAF about Papal States, Catholic States, Theocracy, and Catholic Monarchy and the like.

And, I know there are a lot of detractors. But, the point is, that in all that I’ve read online about it (which isn’t too much, as there is no organization or movement on this at all, 100% on forums, blogs, and youtube)… I’d estimate there is considerable interest in this amongst the Catholic community as a whole.

I think opponents of anything of this sort understand this. The Catholic Church has 1.2 billion Baptized members. If 1% of them wanted to live in a Catholic theocracy, then that would be 12 million people. You can count how many nations have more or less than 12 million here, if you like:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

So, the point is, there are a lot of Catholics, and the Catholic Church could get it done. Clearly the Papal States only ceased to exist in 1870, which is why I’m posting this in Traditional Catholicism.

I’m not interested in arguing the pros and cons of such a state. I’m asking a question:

Did the Catholic Church ever pronounce that Catholics shouldn’t demand to live in a Catholic State? Did the Church ever teach that there should be no more theocracies after the fall of the Papal States?

Because, if the answer is no, then why aren’t there any organizations out there who focus on this?

There are a lot of people trying to get new nations formed. And, the point is, the Catholic Church could probably get it done fairly easily. Its more likely than Kurdistan becoming a nation in my lifetime, for instance.

I’m saying the will is there. The demand is there. I read through a very long thread on this, and it was asking people if they would consider living in such a place. I counted every response, and it was around 40-50% of the Catholic posters said yes.

How representative of the whole worldwide body of Catholics is CAF?
Because, I’m willing to bet, by the interest I’ve seen, that more than 1% of Catholics would seriously consider this. More than 12 million people. What if it were 10%? IE: 120 million.

Does the Church teach against it? Or, does Church teaching allow for it, at the present time?
 
What is your point? Should the Catholic Church invade those 50 countries and set up in government??
 
RC_Sojourner said:
Ok, so by doing a number of Google Searches of CAF, there have been quite a number of threads on CAF about Papal States, Catholic States, Theocracy, and Catholic Monarchy and the like.

And, I know there are a lot of detractors. But, the point is, that in all that I’ve read online about it (which isn’t too much, as there is no organization or movement on this at all, 100% on forums, blogs, and youtube)… I’d estimate there is considerable interest in this amongst the Catholic community as a whole.

I think opponents of anything of this sort understand this. The Catholic Church has 1.2 billion Baptized members. If 1% of them wanted to live in a Catholic theocracy, then that would be 12 million people. You can count how many nations have more or less than 12 million here, if you like:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

So, the point is, there are a lot of Catholics, and the Catholic Church could get it done. Clearly the Papal States only ceased to exist in 1870, which is why I’m posting this in Traditional Catholicism.

I’m not interested in arguing the pros and cons of such a state. I’m asking a question:

Did the Catholic Church ever pronounce that Catholics shouldn’t demand to live in a Catholic State? Did the Church ever teach that there should be no more theocracies after the fall of the Papal States?

Because, if the answer is no, then why aren’t there any organizations out there who focus on this?

There are a lot of people trying to get new nations formed. And, the point is, the Catholic Church could probably get it done fairly easily. Its more likely than Kurdistan becoming a nation in my lifetime, for instance.

I’m saying the will is there. The demand is there. I read through a very long thread on this, and it was asking people if they would consider living in such a place. I counted every response, and it was around 40-50% of the Catholic posters said yes.

How representative of the whole worldwide body of Catholics is CAF?
Because, I’m willing to bet, by the interest I’ve seen, that more than 1% of Catholics would seriously consider this. More than 12 million people. What if it were 10%? IE: 120 million.

Does the Church teach against it? Or, does Church teaching allow for it, at the present time?
Click to expand...
Isn’t Vatican City technically a catholic state?
 
RC_Sojourner said:
Ok, so by doing a number of Google Searches of CAF, there have been quite a number of threads on CAF about Papal States, Catholic States, Theocracy, and Catholic Monarchy and the like.

And, I know there are a lot of detractors. But, the point is, that in all that I’ve read online about it (which isn’t too much, as there is no organization or movement on this at all, 100% on forums, blogs, and youtube)… I’d estimate there is considerable interest in this amongst the Catholic community as a whole.

I think opponents of anything of this sort understand this. The Catholic Church has 1.2 billion Baptized members. If 1% of them wanted to live in a Catholic theocracy, then that would be 12 million people. You can count how many nations have more or less than 12 million here, if you like:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

So, the point is, there are a lot of Catholics, and the Catholic Church could get it done. Clearly the Papal States only ceased to exist in 1870, which is why I’m posting this in Traditional Catholicism.

I’m not interested in arguing the pros and cons of such a state. I’m asking a question:

Did the Catholic Church ever pronounce that Catholics shouldn’t demand to live in a Catholic State? Did the Church ever teach that there should be no more theocracies after the fall of the Papal States?

Because, if the answer is no, then why aren’t there any organizations out there who focus on this?

There are a lot of people trying to get new nations formed. And, the point is, the Catholic Church could probably get it done fairly easily. Its more likely than Kurdistan becoming a nation in my lifetime, for instance.

I’m saying the will is there. The demand is there. I read through a very long thread on this, and it was asking people if they would consider living in such a place. I counted every response, and it was around 40-50% of the Catholic posters said yes.

How representative of the whole worldwide body of Catholics is CAF?
Because, I’m willing to bet, by the interest I’ve seen, that more than 1% of Catholics would seriously consider this. More than 12 million people. What if it were 10%? IE: 120 million.

Does the Church teach against it? Or, does Church teaching allow for it, at the present time?
Click to expand...
I don’t think there is any teaching against it. But I doubt if it would work out. How about one which just gives Catholics an equal voice and equal justice under the law?

Linus2nd
 
I do not know what the official position of the Church is on such a matter - but I would suggest that history teaches that it is not a good idea.

Peace
James
 
RC_Sojourner said:
Ok, so by doing a number of Google Searches of CAF, there have been quite a number of threads on CAF about Papal States, Catholic States, Theocracy, and Catholic Monarchy and the like.

And, I know there are a lot of detractors. But, the point is, that in all that I’ve read online about it (which isn’t too much, as there is no organization or movement on this at all, 100% on forums, blogs, and youtube)… I’d estimate there is considerable interest in this amongst the Catholic community as a whole.

I think opponents of anything of this sort understand this. The Catholic Church has 1.2 billion Baptized members. If 1% of them wanted to live in a Catholic theocracy, then that would be 12 million people. You can count how many nations have more or less than 12 million here, if you like:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

So, the point is, there are a lot of Catholics, and the Catholic Church could get it done. Clearly the Papal States only ceased to exist in 1870, which is why I’m posting this in Traditional Catholicism.

I’m not interested in arguing the pros and cons of such a state. I’m asking a question:

Did the Catholic Church ever pronounce that Catholics shouldn’t demand to live in a Catholic State? Did the Church ever teach that there should be no more theocracies after the fall of the Papal States?

Because, if the answer is no, then why aren’t there any organizations out there who focus on this?

There are a lot of people trying to get new nations formed. And, the point is, the Catholic Church could probably get it done fairly easily. Its more likely than Kurdistan becoming a nation in my lifetime, for instance.

I’m saying the will is there. The demand is there. I read through a very long thread on this, and it was asking people if they would consider living in such a place. I counted every response, and it was around 40-50% of the Catholic posters said yes.

How representative of the whole worldwide body of Catholics is CAF?
Because, I’m willing to bet, by the interest I’ve seen, that more than 1% of Catholics would seriously consider this. More than 12 million people. What if it were 10%? IE: 120 million.

Does the Church teach against it? Or, does Church teaching allow for it, at the present time?
Click to expand...
Tried it in the past didn’t work
 
Do we really want the Catholic Church building roads, issuing drives licenses, delivering mail, setting automobile safety standards and dredging ports?

Road crews in reflective yellow vests with concrete saws and work trucks in the middle of the night repaving a bridge? Is that what Christ envisioned?

I don’t think the Church herself has a desire to do these things.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Do we really want the Catholic Church building roads, issuing drives licenses, delivering mail, setting automobile safety standards and dredging ports?

Road crews in reflective yellow vests with concrete saws and work trucks in the middle of the night repaving a bridge? Is that what Christ envisioned?

I don’t think the Church herself has a desire to do these things.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
The Church could issue “proof of automobile blessing” cards each year and charge a fine for those who neglect to get them blessed…

“May I see your license, proof of insurance, and proof of automobile blessing?”

😉 😃
 
YoungTradCath said:
Does the current situation work?
Click to expand...
Actually - Yes it does.
Because the Church is not a temporal power, it is free to act without regard to “political” considerations. This makes it a much stronger force for good.
In the past, when the Church leadership was both both spiritual and temporal rulers, the conflicts between these two offices caused many problems…

Peace
James
 
Just as a side perspective taking Catholicism out of the equation…people often forget the UK is a Christian country (Protestant) although only about 10% of its population attend church and many forget it is christian…it’s run as if its secular…so in that sense Ireland is more catholic than the UK is Protestant…at least they allow their faith to govern their laws on marriage, abortion etc…

On the other side of the coin is USA…it’s a secular country technically speaking but is very much Christian at its heart…I think someone once told me 90% attend church…

So in this sense the secular state seems to produce more religious people the the religious state. Plus you have that whole nasty issue of The Troubles in NORTHERN Ireland (UK)
 
Truefaith…
Your comparison is interesting…though I highly doubt that 90% of Americans attend Church - - Perhaps 90% have attended a church at one time or another…🤷

But -
There are two main problems that I would see with the state that the OP seeks.
The first is the tension between the spiritual and the temporal needs (especially in foreign relations etc) that I mentioned in an earlier post.

The second problem would come about with succeeding generations grow to adulthood.
If I am understanding the OP correctly, He would envision a place - empty of non-Catholics - and where only devout, practicing Catholics would be permitted to enter. Where the laws of the land grow out of the laws of the Church - out of canon law.
This is fine in theory - but then - as children are born and grow - how many of these will choose to become devout, practicing adult Catholics?
Will these be told to leave since they do not hold to the principles upon which the country is founded and under which it governs?
If they are allowed to stay, are they allowed to choose [not to practice the faith (remember that they would be baptized Catholic…or would this be against the law (Sunday mass, baptize their children, etc.)

The bottom line is that immigrants, like converts, are strong advocates for their adopted country…but this does not necessarily mean that their progeny will be. And how does a the country of “Catholica” (just made that up:p) deal with such dissension…

History seems to indicate that this issue - the conflict between the spiritual and the temporal - will cause many issues.

Just can’t see it working well…

Peace
James
 
I agree with you,.i can see somewhere like Catholica (👍) advocating something like the Amish do, where their children at 16 are able to spend a year seeing the rest of the world outside their protected closed world - if they choose to believe still, they are welcome back and must fully embrace Amish life, if they don’t, they are ostracised and shunned by family and friends.
 
Truth_Faith13 said:
I agree with you,.i can see somewhere like Catholica (👍) advocating something like the Amish do, where their children at 16 are able to spend a year seeing the rest of the world outside their protected closed world - if they choose to believe still, they are welcome back and must fully embrace Amish life, if they don’t, they are ostracized and shunned by family and friends.
Click to expand...
Yes that is possible - of course the Amish do this within the context of the larger community - they are not a separate state. That can make a difference…I mean - in our state of Catholica, where would the kids go for Rumspringa (as the Amish call it).

Of course realistically, Catholics, and for that matter most all Christian churches, use to do this as well. Perhaps not to the extent that some Amish have, but certainly 100 years ago things like divorce or marrying outside the faith were deeply frowned upon and heaven forbid a person move from one church to another.

Peace
James
 
I could see a state for Catholics in the US maybe an Island or something that is similar to the Indian Nations in the US
 
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