R
Rocky24
Guest
Have any Popes in the past issued an encyclical or is it written in the catechism? Is it a sin to not do anything about it? Is ‘Stewardship’ an official Catholic teaching?
Stewardship in general is a Catholic teaching, but how that concept applies to specific cases is not spelled out specifically. The Catholic Church does not take a binding position on the science involved.Have any Popes in the past issued an encyclical or is it written in the catechism? Is it a sin to not do anything about it? Is ‘Stewardship’ an official Catholic teaching?
There is not and cannot be a Church doctrine on climate change. That is a purely scientific question on which the Church has no basis for speaking. She can no more have doctrines on this topic than she could have one on the Big Bang theory.Have any Popes in the past issued an encyclical or is it written in the catechism? Is it a sin to not do anything about it? Is ‘Stewardship’ an official Catholic teaching?
There’s actually no need for a separate Church doctrine on climate change. “Thou shalt not kill” is plenty enough for Catholics and people of many other religions around the world to mitigate climate change. In addition, God has commanded us to “keep the garden.” Of course, there was also the issue about the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but, well, you know how we are…There is not and cannot be a Church doctrine on climate change. That is a purely scientific question on which the Church has no basis for speaking. She can no more have doctrines on this topic than she could have one on the Big Bang theory.
Ender
You seem unable even to recognize the possibility that someone could actually doubt that AGW is real. It also appears you fail to understand the role intent plays in determining whether an action is moral.There’s actually no need for a separate Church doctrine on climate change. “Thou shalt not kill” is plenty enough for Catholics and people of many other religions around the world to mitigate climate change.
That’s true. And I do believe you sincerely disbelieve AGW is real or dangerous, so if we annihilate all life on earth due to our contributions to AGW, you’re off the hook, and I’ll see you in heaven, assuming all else is okayYou seem unable even to recognize the possibility that someone could actually doubt that AGW is real. It also appears you fail to understand the role intent plays in determining whether an action is moral.
I don’t believe man is responsible for global warming. I do believe that many of the proposals for fighting this non-existent problem could have catastrophic effects, especially on poor nations. Given what I believe to be true, if I sided with the AGW crowd and supported their proposed solutions despite believing that it would be disastrous to millions … then I would be committing a sin. That is, if I supported your position - believing what I believe to be true - that would be a sin just as it would be a sin on your part to support my position believing what you believe.
Supporting or opposing the mitigation of global warming is neither moral nor immoral, it is the reason behind our choices that determines the morality of our actions.
Ender
Good, that’s the only point I’ve been trying to make. It is reasonable to claim that my position opposing the theory of AGW is scientific nonsense but it is not valid to claim that the Church has any position on the subject. One of us is surely wrong as to the science involved but there is no moral difference between our positions.Supporting or opposing the mitigation of global warming is neither moral nor immoral…
That’s true.
Except if I’m wrong and you are right, I have only done sensible things to mitigate, reducing our GHGs by more than 60% below our 1990 emissions, that also reduce other environmental and other problems. We have also saved $1000s, without lowering our living standard while doing so.Good, that’s the only point I’ve been trying to make. It is reasonable to claim that my position opposing the theory of AGW is scientific nonsense but it is not valid to claim that the Church has any position on the subject. One of us is surely wrong as to the science involved but there is no moral difference between our positions.
Ender
Disbelieving in AGW is not the same as disbelieving in conservation but the belief that the actions of individuals will have any useful effect on reducing GHGs seems more than a bit farfetched. Virtually no country reached its Kyoto target. Spain has severely damaged her economy by going green because the cost of that decision has been exorbitant. There have been major economic dislocations in most countries - including our own - that have pursued renewable energy without regard to costs. Economic damage is a reality. AGW damage is a theory.Except if I’m wrong and you are right, I have only done sensible things to mitigate, reducing our GHGs by more than 60% below our 1990 emissions, that also reduce other environmental and other problems.
Actually that is not the fault of the theory. That is the result of bad decisons. I mean nothing in the theory of AGW says thou must use corn as fuel! Also trust me if you look at the actual science behind the theory of AGW you will find it is not misguided. But if you are just looking at sites that specifically argue against AGW or get you info from places like fox news of course you are going to get the impression that it is misguided. Really though donlt get me wrong I once was skeptical of AGW as well. I mean the whole idea that man could have a huge effect on the climate seemed a little silly. I mean I did not reject the theory completely I thought humans were probably having a little to maybe some effect but that it was mostly natural. It wasn;t until I basically stumbled upon the realclimate blog one day and started reading that I learned more.Actually, the misguided AGW “theory” has already caused human suffering and likely death…We are burning corn in our gas tanks for NO GOOD REASON, reducing our gasoline mileage, damaging our engines, and removing corn from the worldwide FOOD SUPPLY.
Misguided and deadly.
This is true as far as it goes but it completely misses the point that decisions resulting in harmful side effects are inevitable. That’s the reason they are opposed by those who believe that AGW is wrong. If, as we all agree, the decision to use corn as fuel was a bad one why hasn’t it been rescinded? Quite clearly it is because the true believers feel that the bad consequences are part of the price that has to be paid to “save the planet.” There are no AGW mitigation strategies that aren’t harmful … and the theory is responsible for all of them that are tried since that is what is driving the effort to solve a nonexistent problem.Actually that is not the fault of the theory. That is the result of bad decisons.
I look at it in spiritual calculus. Mother Teresa when speaking about doing good for the poor said it doesn’t matter how small your good deed is, your love makes it infinite.Disbelieving in AGW is not the same as disbelieving in conservation but the belief that the actions of individuals will have any useful effect on reducing GHGs seems more than a bit farfetched…
We all wish to do the right thing. I remember a woman in our env group some 20 years ago talking about getting a wood-buring stove, thinking it a good env thing to do, and the environmentalist there (who had her degree in env sci) told her the local pollution from it would cause harm.Actually, the misguided AGW “theory” has already caused human suffering and likely death…We are burning corn in our gas tanks for NO GOOD REASON, reducing our gasoline mileage, damaging our engines, and removing corn from the worldwide FOOD SUPPLY.
Misguided and deadly.
I don’t think it was ever the environmentalists who proposed it in the first place – at least not grass-roots environmentalists.If, as we all agree, the decision to use corn as fuel was a bad one why hasn’t it been rescinded?
Yeah this is probably at least part of the truth.I don’t think it was ever the environmentalists who proposed it in the first place – at least not grass-roots environmentalists.
Ag-biz is a very very powerful lobby in DC, and add to that the petrochemical fertilizer/pesticide industry that has a stake in ag-biz. Does Monsanto ring any bells – I shiver just to mention them; they’ll be after me with lawsuits in the $millions and sue me into eternal poverty for suggesting they might be involved in something bad and wrong. So let it be known, Monsanto good. Very good.
There’s a snowball’s chance that biofuels and their subsidies will be rescinded.
You write some very interesting things.We all wish to do the right thing. I remember a woman in our env group some 20 years ago talking about getting a wood-buring stove, thinking it a good env thing to do, and the environmentalist there (who had her degree in env sci) told her the local pollution from it would cause harm.
I just got a Volt without looking into the battery issue, and right after found there is some harm in the resource extraction for the battery, and am just hoping that driving 90%+ on wind-powered electricity (offsetting local, regional, and global fossil fuel pollution) will outweigh the harms.
Someone wrote a book, WHY THINGS BITE BACK, and I suppose you’ve seen the movie THE JERK.
**We need to do our best, learn and use our brains, and be flexible enough to give up bad ideas.
**
The first time I heard about “bio-fuels” some 15 or 20 years ago I thought, oh, no – food-to-fuels. Here I am trying to reduce drought famine in Africa by reducing my GHGs; why would I want to take food out of people’s mouths so I can drive around in my hotrod?
It was a no-brainer for me, about the biofuel harms, tho I’ve heard 2nd generation biofuels hold some promise, at least of being one solution among many many.
I know, right? Whenever I read the Huffington Post, I learn SO much, it makes my head explode.Actually that is not the fault of the theory. That is the result of bad decisons. I mean nothing in the theory of AGW says thou must use corn as fuel! Also trust me if you look at the actual science behind the theory of AGW you will find it is not misguided. But if you are just looking at sites that specifically argue against AGW or get you info from places like fox news of course you are going to get the impression that it is misguided. Really though donlt get me wrong I once was skeptical of AGW as well. I mean the whole idea that man could have a huge effect on the climate seemed a little silly. I mean I did not reject the theory completely I thought humans were probably having a little to maybe some effect but that it was mostly natural. It wasn;t until I basically stumbled upon the realclimate blog one day and started reading that I learned more.