What is the Church's position on

[oblateosb]

Please advise.
Our new pastor has given us guidelines that I believe are against church law. I will ask for a meeting with him, but I want to have the right references/answers beforehand.
3 things.

1. His decision to not raise the Host and not raise the Chalice for worship during Consecration I believe violates the GIRM (chap 4 para 150).
2. More Importantly. His “authorizing” “Eucharistic Ministers for the Sick” (his title)–His authorizing the taking home of the Eucharist for overnight. Although I can’t find a specific prohibition. The last time I studied this----When taking Communion to the sick, one is supposed to take the Eucharist directly to the homebound—no shopping; no chit chat; etc. And Reservation of the Eucharist under Canon Law ONLY specifies for religious houses and authorized by the Bishop.
3. His desire to have “more people participating” 3 Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (EMHC)for all Masses I think - violates the purpose of EMHC. There are usually only 50 - 100 people at the weekend Mass at this small parish.

Please either tell me that his guidance is OK or give me appropriate references with which to humbly meet with him. And please pray for me to have wisdom, humility, and courage.

If I knew how to attach to this email, I could send you his published guidance.
God bless you.
Bernadette Shonka

 

[Phemie]

Please advise.
Our new pastor has given us guidelines that I believe are against church law. I will ask for a meeting with him, but I want to have the right references/answers beforehand.
3 things.

1. His decision to not raise the Host and not raise the Chalice for worship during Consecration I believe violates the GIRM (chap 4 para 150).

Exactly when? I was taught that during consecration there are three gradual levels of ‘raising’.

Slightly above the altar as one prays the words of consecration,
Chest level when one shows the Host/Chalice after the Consecration
Eye level or higher when one hold up the Host and Chalice at the Doxology.

1. More Importantly. His “authorizing” “Eucharistic Ministers for the Sick” (his title)–His authorizing the taking home of the Eucharist for overnight. Although I can’t find a specific prohibition. The last time I studied this----When taking Communion to the sick, one is supposed to take the Eucharist directly to the homebound—no shopping; no chit chat; etc. And Reservation of the Eucharist under Canon Law ONLY specifies for religious houses and authorized by the Bishop.

That is also my understanding. I would ask him politely and if a satisfactory answer is not received I would contact the bishop.

1. His desire to have “more people participating” 3 Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (EMHC)for all Masses I think - violates the purpose of EMHC. There are usually only 50 - 100 people at the weekend Mass at this small parish.

Please either tell me that his guidance is OK or give me appropriate references with which to humbly meet with him. And please pray for me to have wisdom, humility, and courage.

If I knew how to attach to this email, I could send you his published guidance.
God bless you.
Bernadette Shonka

We used to use 3 on Sundays, one to help father distribute the Hosts and two for the Chalice. When H1N1 happened and Father became the only person distributing Communion they realized that the third minister is not really needed at all. Communion is not much longer - maybe a few minutes – and Mass still ends within an hour even when there is singing.

It would be interesting to ask him about more EMHCs to ‘get more people involved.’ I would innocently say 'I was not aware that that was why EMCHs are allowed. How could I have misunderstood?" and see what he responds.

 

[Lancer]

1. More Importantly. His “authorizing” “Eucharistic Ministers for the Sick” (his title)–His authorizing the taking home of the Eucharist for overnight. Although I can’t find a specific prohibition. The last time I studied this----When taking Communion to the sick, one is supposed to take the Eucharist directly to the homebound—no shopping; no chit chat; etc. And Reservation of the Eucharist under Canon Law ONLY specifies for religious houses and authorized by the Bishop

You are correct.
May I ask…what is the age of this pastor/priest?

Re: Email he sent…is the Bishop or any other Deanery or Chancery official/office on it.? After you talk to him…if he is recalcitrant…just ask him to send a copy to the Bishop’s Office for clarification. Being charitable does not restrict your rights as a Catholic lay person…to have the Mass celebrated in both a licit and a valid manner.

Pax Christi

Code of Canon Law
CHAPTER II.

THE RESERVATION AND VENERATION OF THE MOST HOLY EUCHARIST

Can. 934
§1. The Most Holy Eucharist:

1/ must be reserved in the cathedral church or its equivalent, in every parish church, and in a church or oratory connected to the house of a religious institute or society of apostolic life;

2/ can be reserved in the chapel of the bishop and, with the permission of the local ordinary, in other churches, oratories, and chapels.

§2. In sacred places where the Most Holy Eucharist is reserved, there must always be someone responsible for it and, insofar as possible, a priest is to celebrate Mass there at least twice a month.

Can. 935** No one is permitted to keep the Eucharist on one’s person or to carry it around, unless pastoral necessity urges it and the prescripts of the diocesan bishop are observed.**

Can. 936 In the house of a religious institute or some other pious house, the Most Holy Eucharist is to be reserved only in the church or principal oratory attached to the house. For a just cause, however, the ordinary can also permit it to be reserved in another oratory of the same house.

 

[Bergon]

1. He has no authority to omit the elevations.
2. He can use extraordinary ministers of the Holy Communion. To call them Eucharistic Ministers for the Sick is inappropriate and I doubt he’d be convinced to change this title. As far allowing them to take the Eucharist home overnight, that is a very grave matter.
3. It’s very difficult to argue how many extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion can be used at Mass. No doubt this point will generate much discussion.

Starting with the third of these points. I’d not bother attempting to tackle this issue.

With respect to the first one I’d ask him politely why he doesn’t do it. I’m clutching at straws but is he unable to raise his arms?

On the second issue I’d again approach him quietly and ask if some dispensation had been given.

It would probably get you further by asking him why he’s made these changes rather than barging in and demanding an explanation; although, I’m not suggesting that is what you’d do.

If you don’t get satisfactory answers tell him you’re going to write to the bishop. Keep an open mind and don’t assume his answers won’t satisfy you.

If you have to write to the Bishop keep a copy of your letter. I’d give the bishop a month to reply. If he doesn’t it’ll be your decision as to whether you pursue the matter further.

I wish you well in your endeavours to maintain the high standards our liturgy deserves.

 

[oblateosb]

Thank you, Phemie, Lancer, and Bergon for your comments and suggestions. His elimination of the raising of the host and chalice is each immediately after pronouncing the words of consecration. I would attach his actual guidance, but I don’t know how to attach here and it won’t “copy/paste”. Is there a way I don’t know about? I have a copy of the Code of Canon Law - 1983 revision, also “Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite” by Msgr Elliott, and the GIRM. If you have anything to add, please do so. Meanwhile, please pray that I use the right words and that he does not perceive me as confrontational, but concerned about proper reverence and respect for church matters. God bless you.

 

[Bergon]

Is there a way I don’t know about?

What exactly is it you want to attach?

I have a copy of the Code of Canon Law 1983

Do you possess a canon law commentary? One of those is extremely useful. I’d give you a reference but my wife’s tidied the study and I can’t currently locate it.

“Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite” by Msgr Elliott

An excellent book.

If you have anything to add, please do so. Meanwhile, please pray that I use the right words and that he does not perceive me as confrontational, but concerned about proper reverence and respect for church matters. God bless you.

I will pray for you. I think he’s not going to like it. Just remember to remain calm and rational, don’t raise your voice, respect his personal space but above all remain courteous and polite. I’m quite sure you’ll do all those things but they can be easy to overlook when it’s subjective.

 

[oblateosb]

I don’t have a Commentary. What I wanted to attach was the 2 pages of guidance that he put out. What makes this a little sticky is that my relationship is that I’m the Vice Pres of the Legion of Mary associated with his parish. I live actually in another diocese, but my home borders 3 diocese in Indiana. Our Legion President asked for my help in this matter since I’m the most versed in liturgical matters among our legionaries. She, our Legion of Mary President is one of the Lectors and EMHC’s. Mind you, I don’t “look for” areas of controversy, but I also don’t like to roll over and play dead when I see liturgical abuse–especially when it could compromise the safety and respect for the Blessed Sacrament.
Thank you for your guidance.

 

[Bergon]

What I wanted to attach was the 2 pages of guidance that he put out.

Is it a Microsoft Word document, an html link to a website, or specifically what? We can’t help you attach it until we know what it is. There’s different ways of attaching specific things.

 

[R_C]

1. His “authorizing” “Eucharistic Ministers for the Sick” (his title)–His authorizing the taking home of the Eucharist for overnight.
2. His desire to have “more people participating” 3 Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (EMHC)for all Masses There are usually only 50 - 100 people at the weekend Mass at this small parish.

The Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum “On certain matters to be observed or to be avoided regarding the Most Holy Eucharist” clearly states:

[132.] No one may carry the Most Holy Eucharist to his or her home …]

[133.] A Priest or Deacon, or an extraordinary minister who takes the Most Holy Eucharist when an ordained minister is absent or impeded in order to administer it as Communion for a sick person, should go insofar as possible directly from the place where the Sacrament is reserved to the sick person’s home, leaving aside any profane business so that any danger of profanation may be avoided and the greatest reverence for the Body of Christ may be ensured.

[88.] …] It is the Priest celebrant’s responsibility to minister Communion, perhaps assisted by other Priests or Deacons …] Only when there is a necessity may extraordinary ministers assist the Priest celebrant in accordance with the norm of law.

[147.] When the Church’s needs require it, however, if sacred ministers are lacking, lay members of Christ’s faithful may supply for certain liturgical offices according to the norm of law. …]

[151.] Only out of true necessity is there to be recourse to the assistance of extraordinary ministers in the celebration of the Liturgy. Such recourse is not intended for the sake of a fuller participation of the laity but rather, by its very nature, is supplementary and provisional. …]

[155.] In addition to the ordinary ministers there is the formally instituted acolyte, who by virtue of his institution is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion even outside the celebration of Mass. If, moreover, reasons of real necessity prompt it, another lay member of Christ’s faithful may also be delegated by the diocesan Bishop, in accordance with the norm of law, for one occasion or for a specified time, and an appropriate formula of blessing may be used for the occasion. …] Finally, in special cases of an unforeseen nature, permission can be given for a single occasion by the Priest who presides at the celebration of the Eucharist.

[157.] If there is usually present a sufficient number of sacred ministers for the distribution of Holy Communion, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may not be appointed. Indeed, in such circumstances, those who may have already been appointed to this ministry should not exercise it. The practice of those Priests is reprobated who, even though present at the celebration, abstain from distributing Communion and hand this function over to laypersons.

[158.] Indeed, the extraordinary minister of Holy Communion may administer Communion only when the Priest and Deacon are lacking, when the Priest is prevented by weakness or advanced age or some other genuine reason, or when the number of faithful coming to Communion is so great that the very celebration of Mass would be unduly prolonged. This, however, is to be understood in such a way that a brief prolongation, considering the circumstances and culture of the place, is not at all a sufficient reason.

[160.] Let the diocesan Bishop give renewed consideration to the practice in recent years regarding this matter, and if circumstances call for it, let him correct it or define it more precisely. Where such extraordinary ministers are appointed in a widespread manner out of true necessity, the diocesan Bishop should issue special norms …]

Additional official documents of Holy Church:

Instruction Inaestimabile Donum “Concerning worship of the Eucharistic Mystery”

1. The faithful, whether religious or lay, who are authorized as extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist can distribute Communion only when there is no priest, deacon or acolyte, when the priest is impeded by illness or advanced age, or when the number of the faithful going to Communion is so large as to make the celebration of Mass excessively long. Accordingly, a reprehensible attitude is shown by those priests who, though present at the celebration, refrain from distributing Communion and leave this task to the laity.

continued…

 

[R_C]

Instruction Immensae Caritatis “On Facilitating Reception Of Communion In Certain Circumstances”

There are several situations in which a shortage of ministers of communion has been pointed out:

—within Mass because of a great crowd of people or some disability of the celebrant;

—outside Mass when distance makes it difficult to bring communion, especially as viaticum to the sick in danger of death; or when the sheer number of sick people, especially in hospitals or similar institutions, requires several ministers.

I. Local Ordinaries possess the faculty enabling them to permit fit persons, each chosen by name …]

a. whenever no priest, deacon, or acolyte is available;

b. whenever the same ministers are impeded from administering communion because of another pastoral ministry, ill-health, or old age;

c. whenever the number of faithful wishing to receive communion is so great that the celebration of Mass or the giving of communion outside Mass would take too long.

II. The same local Ordinaries possess the faculty of granting individual priests in the course of their ministry the power to appoint, for a given occasion, a fit person to distribute communion in cases of genuine necessity

IV. The fit person referred to in nos. I and II will be designated according to the order of this listing (which may be changed at the prudent discretion of the local Ordinary): reader, major seminarian, man religious, woman religious, catechist, one of the faithful—a man or a woman.

Instruction Ecclesiae de Mysterio “*On certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the Sacred ministry of the priest by eight dicasteries of the Holy See *”

The non-ordained faithful may be generically designated “extraordinary ministers” when deputed by competent authority to discharge, solely by way of supply, those offices mentioned in Canon 230, 3(56) and in Canons 943 and 1112. …]Temporary deputation for liturgical purposes – mentioned in Canon 230, 2 – does not confer any special or permanent title on the non-ordained faithful.

The Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion …] is a response to the objective needs of the faithful especially those of the sick and to those liturgical assemblies in which there are particularly large numbers of the faithful who wish to receive Holy Communion.

Extraordinary ministers may distribute Holy Communion at eucharistic celebrations only when there are no ordained ministers present or when those ordained ministers present at a liturgical celebration are truly unable to distribute Holy Communion. They may also exercise this function at eucharistic celebrations where there are particularly large numbers of the faithful and which would be excessively prolonged because of an insufficient number of ordained ministers to distribute Holy Communion. This function is supplementary and extraordinary …]

To avoid creating confusion, certain practices are to be avoided and eliminated where such have emerged in particular Churches:

• the habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion at Mass thus arbitrarily extending the concept of “a great number of the faithful”.

Instruction Eucharisticum Mysterium “On Eucharistic Worship”

It should belong to the celebrant priest above all to distribute Communion; nor should the Mass continue until the Communion of the faithful is over. Other priests or deacons will help the priest, if need be.

Norms for the Distribution and Reception
of Holy Communion
Under Both Kinds
in the Dioceses of the United States of America

1. …] the need to avoid obscuring the role of the priest and the deacon as the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion by an excessive use of extraordinary minister might in some circumstances constitute a reason either for limiting the distribution of Holy Communion under both species or for using intinction instead of distributing the Precious Blood from the chalice. …]

1. By virtue of his sacred ordination, the bishop or priest offers the sacrifice in the person of Christ, the Head of the Church. …] Thus bishops and priests are considered the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion. In addition the deacon who assists the bishop or priest in distributing Communion is an ordinary minister of Holy Communion. When the Eucharist is distributed under both forms, “the deacon ministers the chalice.”

1. In every celebration of the Eucharist there should be a sufficient number of ministers for Holy Communion so that it can be distributed in an orderly and reverent manner.

1. When the size of the congregation or the incapacity of the bishop, priest, or deacon requires it, the celebrant may be assisted by other bishops, priests, or deacons.

If such ordinary ministers of Holy Communion are not present, "the priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, i.e., formally instituted acolytes or even some of the faithful who have been commissioned according to the prescribed rite.

In case of necessity, the priest may also commission suitable members of the faithful for the occasion.

When recourse is had to Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, especially in the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds, their number should not be increased beyond what is required for the orderly and reverent distribution of the Body and Blood of the Lord.

 

[estesbob]

Has the Pastor been approached about these concerns?

 

[R_C]

Has the Pastor been approached about these concerns?

Please advise.

Our new pastor has given us guidelines that I believe are against church law. I will ask for a meeting with him, but I want to have the right references/answers beforehand.

Please either tell me that his guidance is OK or give me appropriate references with which to humbly meet with him. And please pray for me to have wisdom, humility, and courage.

 

[m134e5]

Please advise.
Our new pastor has given us guidelines that I believe are against church law. I will ask for a meeting with him, but I want to have the right references/answers beforehand.
3 things.
oblateosb;11097180:

1. His decision to not raise the Host and not raise the Chalice for worship during Consecration I believe violates the GIRM (chap 4 para 150).

He doesn’t raise them at all? This is a violation, if that is the case, and needs to be addressed. raise it very high. That kind of motion may cause him to lose his balance.

1. More Importantly. His “authorizing” “Eucharistic Ministers for the Sick” (his title)–His authorizing the taking home of the Eucharist for overnight. Although I can’t find a specific prohibition. The last time I studied this----When taking Communion to the sick, one is supposed to take the Eucharist directly to the homebound—no shopping; no chit chat; etc. And Reservation of the Eucharist under Canon Law ONLY specifies for religious houses and authorized by the Bishop.

That is not a correct title for them, and they absolutely should not be taking the Eucharist home overnight unless they have a chapel in their homes (approved by the bishop). This is a matter to be taken to the bishop immediately- whether or not you live in his diocese (I wouldn’t even mention that fact- it is irrelevant in this case).

1. His desire to have “more people participating” 3 Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (EMHC)for all Masses I think - violates the purpose of EMHC. There are usually only 50 - 100 people at the weekend Mass at this small parish.

If there are 50-100 people at Mass, there is only need of maybe three EMHC’s- and only then if the chalice is distributed. I wouldn’t want to distribute communion. Give me my time to meditate on who I have just received and let others do the same. Let the only minister of the Eucharist be the man who is ordained for that purpose.

Please either tell me that his guidance is OK or give me appropriate references with which to humbly meet with him. And please pray for me to have wisdom, humility, and courage.

It’s not OK, but I’m afraid there is very little dialog with this crowd. This crowd talks about dialog, understanding, tolerance, and what not- but seems interested in having that dialog, understanding, and tolerance with everyone except faithful, orthodox, reverent, traditional Catholics.

If I knew how to attach to this email, I could send you his published guidance.

Don’t send the entire email- we do not need to know his name or other personal details of the correspondence. Double click on the text with your mouse, then right click, then click “copy” in the little box of options that comes up, then click “paste” in a new message window here. If that doesn’t work, you could always type it- but that may be very time-consuming depending on how long the letter is and how fast you type.

 

[oblateosb]

the doc is adobe. I tried to make it a word doc.but it doesn’t copy or paste to this frame.

Father looks to be in his 50’s and doesn’t seem to have any physical problems.

 

[oblateosb]

made a jpeg of it and tried to insert and tried to drag it—no go. darn.

 

[JM3]

Save it to your documents. You should be able to copy and paste from there. If not, you will be able to attach it to a post.

 

[oblateosb]

no little box for options. I just tried again to paste I’d better give up on that. I’ve given a pretty good description of the situation. No names so. . . Thanks for all the help–all of you. God bless.

 

[oblateosb]

nope. documents don’t paste here either. Maybe it’s because they’ve given me a trial membership.

 

[R_C]

If there are 50-100 people at Mass, there is only need of maybe three EMHC’s-

If there are 50-100 people, there is no need of any lay minister whatsoever.

Communion under both species is not necessary. If it were given for any reason, then a minister of the chalice should be there - a deacon, or even a priest.

On a Mass on the Lord’s Day with 80 to 120 people, the celebrating priest of our parish gives Holy Communion with everyone kneeling and on the tongue (which of course makes it longer) in less than 10 minutes.

And any parish has at least 2 priest, or at least 1 priest and 1 deacon, who are not celebrating Mass. They should be present to help minister Holy Communion if needed. Only under extraordinary circumstances should a layman give Holy Communion.

Just to clarify, I have only witnessed EMHCs that are wonderful souls and very devout to the Holy Eucharist.

 

[oblateosb]

I agree wholeheartedly.