What is the Church's teaching on karma?

[Lost_Wanderer]

Sure. But that still isn’t Karma.

Look I’m not ignorant. There’s a reason why I specifically stated popular definition. I know it’s not the only one out there but as far as consequences go, that’s well in line with Church teaching.

Every action has a consequence.

Sin → Hell
Repentance → Salvation

Now tell me, is that not hard to understand? Why are you arguing for the heck of it?

C’mon now, we all know quoting the Bible doesn’t prove anything. We’re both Filipinos here, we know of “Ang Dating Daan” and “Ang Tamang Daan”. They quote the Bible like there’s no tomorrow. Do you believe in what they say?

Show me a theologian of the Church, a Church Father, Doctor, or saint who have taught about Karma.

Any person who has spoken on the accountability of sin, the consequence of hell, and what is needed to redeem oneself will more or less be talking about Karma as it is popularly understood.

So going to confession and saying 3 Our Fathers and Hail Marys is Karma for punching someone in the face?

Apparently, you don’t know how penance can go beyond recited prayers.

First, all you claim is hearsay. Second, the Church actually forbids the priest to make someone confess their sins to someone else, such as a temporal authority, as condition for absolution. So even if there is indeed a case of a priest doing this, he is not doing it according to what the Church actually teaches. He is in fact in error.

Heresy? A priest has the right to withhold absolution if the requirements of contrition aren’t met. What, you think the confessional is some sin deposit box where you pour out your dark secrets only to go out and murder/rape/steal again?

I don’t have to insist anything. The Church has conclusively declared on the matter and it is not up for discussion. A priest cannot compel a penitent to reveal their sin to anyone else for any reason.

But he can deny absolution. That’s my point. And FYI, while a priest can’t make surrender a condition for absolution, they can encourage surrendering to the authorities.

No. Again, Karma dictates that if you kill someone, you should also lose a life. Either your own or someone who you really care about. That is not what the Church teaches. If you become truly repentant and sought forgiveness, then you will be granted forgiveness. You don’t have to die, nor does anyone else you care about.

Again, obsessed with technicality when the underlying logic itself is so simple and universal.

Honestly, people like you are the reason why child molesters go Scott free in our society.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Look I’m not ignorant. There’s a reason why I specifically stated popular definition. I know it’s not the only one out there but as far as consequences go, that’s well in line with Church teaching.

Every action has a consequence.

Sin → Hell
Repentance → Salvation

Now tell me, is that not hard to understand? Why are you arguing for the heck of it?

Any person who has spoken on the accountability of sin, the consequence of hell, and what is needed to redeem oneself will more or less be talking about Karma as it is popularly understood.

Apparently, you don’t know how penance can go beyond recited prayers.

Heresy? A priest has the right to withhold absolution if the requirements of contrition aren’t met. What, you think the confessional is some sin deposit box where you pour out your dark secrets only to go out and murder/rape/steal again?

But he can deny absolution. That’s my point. And FYI, while a priest can’t make surrender a condition for absolution, they can encourage surrendering to the authorities.

Again, obsessed with technicality when the underlying logic itself is so simple and universal.

Honestly, people like you are the reason why child molesters go Scott free in our society.

The discussion is going in a spiral. Your misunderstanding on what Karma really is and insistence that is it compatible with Christian doctrine is the problem here. The fact is it is not. But I will leave you with what you want to believe if that is what you want.

Peace be with you.

 

[bogeydogg]

Actually neither of you is talking about Karma.

No Hindu is ever going to define Karma as “you reap what you sow” because Karma demands reincarnation in order to take effect. You will never reap what you sow in this life only in the next. Everything that happens to you good or bad in this life is a result of things you did in your last life.

That is the teaching of Karma.

And the teaching of reincarnation is TOTALLY foreign to Christianity and as such no parallel can be drawn to sin having consequence or reaping what you sow and Karma.

Any attempt to do so is to place pagan faiths on par with the Christian Faith and that is a terrible sin.

God Bless

 

[rossum]

Actually neither of you is talking about Karma.

No Hindu is ever going to define Karma as “you reap what you sow” because Karma demands reincarnation in order to take effect. You will never reap what you sow in this life only in the next. Everything that happens to you good or bad in this life is a result of things you did in your last life.

That is the teaching of Karma.

That may be correct for Hinduism. In Buddhism, the results of karma can appear in your current lifetime or in future lifetimes. Actions have results:

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.

Dhammapada 1:1-2

rossum

 

[bogeydogg]

That may be correct for Hinduism. In Buddhism, the results of karma can appear in your current lifetime or in future lifetimes. Actions have results:

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.

Dhammapada 1:1-2

rossum

Considering that Siddhartha Gautuma began his life under the teachings of Hinduism I am highly suspect of your interpretation of Karma.

Also I would ask if mind precedes all conditions then does not mind also precede reincarnation and therefore regardless of what you may say there is really no way to know for sure that the consequences you are suffering are from your current life. Perhaps the poor decision you made leading to bad consequences was because of the ill actions of your previous life. You can’t know.

When taking the first point into consideration of the second I think you could fairly argue that all consequences follow reincarnation and any current suffering due to Karma cannot be attributed to this life.

 

[jmcrae]

So, what goes around, comes around - not proper Catholic thinking. Sorry. Reatively new Catholic.

Actually, “karma” is the idea that a reincarnated soul will receive punishments and rewards for its behaviour in previous lives.

It has little or nothing to do with natural justice, or the ordinary consequences of one’s behaviour.

 

[rossum]

Considering that Siddhartha Gautuma began his life under the teachings of Hinduism I am highly suspect of your interpretation of Karma.

Please look at the top right of my posts, particularly the line that starts, “Religion:”.

Also I would ask if mind precedes all conditions then does not mind also precede reincarnation and therefore regardless of what you may say there is really no way to know for sure that the consequences you are suffering are from your current life.

The instructions for remembering your past lives are to be found in Chapter 13 of the Visuddhimagga, should you wish to follow them.

rossum

 

[bogeydogg]

Please look at the top right of my posts, particularly the line that starts, “Religion:”.

The instructions for remembering your past lives are to be found in Chapter 13 of the Visuddhimagga, should you wish to follow them.

rossum

I saw that you are Buddhist I was merely pointing out that as a Buddhist you are speaking for a man who raised Hindu and got a lot of his religious ideas from Hinduism. I also know he claimed to have rejected these ideas, but there is such a lot of carry over that it would be like Marcion trying to argue there was no correlative link between Christianity and Judaism.

As such to argue that Buddha could not have meant Karma to result from reincarnation I think is special pleading.

God Bless

 

[tabycat]

No re:shrug:N

Actually neither of you is talking about Karma.

No Hindu is ever going to define Karma as “you reap what you sow” because Karma demands reincarnation in order to take effect. You will never reap what you sow in this life only in the next. Everything that happens to you good or bad in this life is a result of things you did in your last life.

That is the teaching of Karma.

And the teaching of reincarnation is TOTALLY foreign to Christianity and as such no parallel can be drawn to sin having consequence or reaping what you sow and Karma.

Any attempt to do so is to place pagan faiths on par with the Christian Faith and that is a terrible sin.

God Bless

e
:shrug:no Reincarnation:no karma

 

[sidetrack]

Karma is a Hindu concept. The Church doesn’t say anything directly about it but it does fall under the list of foreign spirituality that we must avoid.

:ehho you happen to have like a link on a list that the Church has provided on this?

 

[drfye]

It seems like the definition of karma needs to be clarified and then to determin how compatible it is with catholicism. I am certainly no expert on it but here is what I was able to find in regards to the definitions/concepts of karma using google.I tried find definitions in regards to hinduism and buddhism and a few others. Now I am not sure on the accuracy of these sites so take it with a grain of salt.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/karma
Buddhism:
themiddleway.net/?p=21
britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/22713/anantarika-karma
buddhism.about.com/od/karmaandrebirth/a/karma.htm
Hinduism:
hinduism.about.com/od/basics/a/karma.htm
britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/312474/karma
Hinduism Karam vs buddhism karma:
wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_karma_in_Buddhism_and_Hinduism
Jainism karma:
hinduwebsite.com/jainism/karmainjainism.asp
jainstudy.org/jsc1-4.06-JainTheoryOfKarma.htm
jinalaya.com/jainism/karma.htm
Taoism karma:
baharna.com/karma/taoist.htm
studyworld.com/newsite/reportessay/socialissues/Religion%5CTaoism.htm

Interestingly it would seem that in Hinduism/Jainism there are multiple types of Karma and in taoism it seems to be Karma without the reincarnation, I don’t know about buddhism. I could be wrong, so I’m sure someone will correct me if I am.

 

[Bix]

Thank you to all who posted and kindly shared their insights!

 

[janix]

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