What is the correct name for the Western Church?

[BVMFatima]

What is the official name of churches in Milan that use the Ambrosian rite?

They are of the Roman church, the Ambrosian rite is a rite used by the Roman Church, so they are Roman Catholic.

 

[Marybeloved]

I wish we could call ourselves Latin Catholics, but that may be taken to mean South American! If we called ourselves Western Catholivs it may be misunderstood in Africa, Asia, where the West’ means the Governments that formerly colonized most of the world, or more accurately, the ‘developed’ countries-which is what many people mean by ‘‘West’’. ‘‘Roman Catholic’’ seems more ancient and proper, but I wish we had a credible alternative (I honestly don’t like it- but maybe that’s just because I’m African). Here people just call us ‘‘Catholics’’, which is super by me!

Also, considering the several distinct spiritualities which become distinct approaches to the faith that we have in the West, I’ve been toying with the idea (evident from my indicated religion, obviously) of Western Catholics (there we go again, with the ‘West’ term that makes a lot of sense at CAF but is thoroughly confusing outside there with the rest of the World outside Apostolic Christendom )- Anyway, I’ve been toying with the idea of Identifying ourselves in the West according to the spirituality we follow, or our spiritual influences-within the vast patrimony of the West.

This especially because others tend to lump us all into one and to pick particular expressions of Western Catholicism as representative of the entire tradition- the term legalistic will often be brandied around in such cases. The West needs to learn about the East (and itself)- just as much as the East needs to learn about the vast and diverse ‘‘West’’. So for example, my influences are mainly Francis de Sales and the Carmelite Saints (especially St. Teresa herself)- Those two have distinct approaches to living (and understanding) the faith that is far, far from ‘‘legalistic’’ and wholly geared towards sanctification. I’m experimenting with Identifying myself with my spirituality within Roman Catholicism, to try and counter this lack of appreciation of western diversity of approaches and to also expose others to these diversities existing within the West. The problem is that many VII Catholics generally don’t learn or pursue them- if they did, it would be easy to point out these diversities to outsiders.

 

[BVMFatima]

You mentioned the term VII Catholics, since when was the Church named after a Council?

 

[TrueLight]

Anyway, I’ve been toying with the idea of Identifying ourselves in the West according to the spirituality we follow, or our spiritual influences-within the vast patrimony of the West.

The only thing with that is that at different points in our walk, different spiritualities may resonate with us. On year I may really be into Teresian an maybe one year, Saint John of the Cross. Either way, I remain Roman Catholic.

 

[JReducation]

Hello, I have a question that keeps bothering me and I do not know where exactly to get the answers so I have come here. My question is, is the Western Church of the Catholic Church originally called the Roman Church? Is that why we use the term Roman Catholic to refer to Catholics of the Roman Church? I know Roman Catholic was used by Protestants to refer to all Catholics in communion with Rome, but besides that event, is Roman Church the original name for the western Church?

I have seen many Western Rite Latin Churches call themselves Roman catholic, is that because we belong to the Roman Church ( Roman Rite ) ?

Please give a answer and explain! Its so confusing!

God Bless!

Actually, in Canon Law, Canon # 1, calls the Church of the West the Latin Church often referred to as the Church of Rome. But it’s legal name is the Latin Church.

Roman Catholics are those who belong to the Latin Church (aka the Church of Rome). That’s why Paul wrote to the Romans.

This has caused all kinds of problems through history, because Roman Catholics tend to stick the word “Roman” into everything, even inventing a formula that does not exist, “The Holy Roman Catholic Church” instead of the “Holy, catholic and apostolic Church”. The minute you stick Holy in front of Roman that sends a negative message to the other Churches. One never hears anyone say, The Holy Greek Catholic Church or the Holy Chaldean Catholic Church.

Also, in many conciliar documents of the past, the term Roman Catholic Church was liberally used to mean the Catholic Church. One of the things that Vatican II did correctly was to avoid the use of Roman Catholic in its documents. Instead, it uses Catholic Church, the People of God, or the Holy Catholic Church. This includes all Catholics, from the 23 Churches. Whenever it uses Roman Catholic, it is referring specifically to the Catholics of the Latin Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Actually, …

Thank you Brother for once again offering a succinct explanation.

I must admit, I chuckled a bit at the thought of the usage of “Holy” applied as such to the prper names of the Eastern Churches.

God’s choicest blessings to you!

 

[Marybeloved]

You mentioned the term VII Catholics, since when was the Church named after a Council?

As you indicated, I said VII Catholics, not the VII Church- so honestly I don’t get your question.

 

[Marybeloved]

The only thing with that is that at different points in our walk, different spiritualities may resonate with us. On year I may really be into Teresian an maybe one year, Saint John of the Cross. Either way, I remain Roman Catholic.

Valid point. But there are many Catholics who generally are influenced by a particular spirituality even if they make use of others also. I read all the saints. but I’m certainly much more formed by St. Francis de sales than anyone followed by Our great St Teresa of Avila.

 

[BVMFatima]

As you indicated, I said VII Catholics, not the VII Church- so honestly I don’t get your question.

Identify Vatican II Catholic

 

[Crumpy]

I thought the name for the whole church is the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

[JReducation]

As you indicated, I said VII Catholics, not the VII Church- so honestly I don’t get your question.

There is no such creature as Vatican II Catholic.

I thought the name for the whole church is the Church of Jesus Christ.

Nahh, those are the Mormons.

The Code of Canon Law of 1983 specifically calls the Church of Rome, the Latin Church. It’s not the Latin Rite Church, because it has many rites that are Latin, but not Roman.

Mozarabic

Ambrosian

Carthusian

Carmelite

Dominican

Roman

I know that I’m leaving something out but can’t remember which one.

These are all Latin rites, because they are found only in the Latin Church. But if you look at your missal, it says Roman Missal and your breviary says the Roman Breviary. It’s referring to the rite, not the Church.

Many people have referred to the Latin Church as the Roman Catholic Church, because they think that there is only one Catholic Church and by saying Roman Catholic they have everyone covered, which we know is not the case.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[BVMFatima]

I disagree JR that the term Roman Catholic makes people think the whole Church is Roman, here is why,

Because say for example the Maronite Church was the largest sui Juris instead of Roman, everybody would think of the Maronite Catholic Church being the only Church that is Catholic as people think the Roman Church is the only Church, so the terms do not make a difference, but the culture or environment the people are in, and since there is only one Western Church which is the Roman church, people here in the western world mainly know of that Sui Juris Church of the Catholic Church. I’m sure there are people in the East who have never hered of the Roman Church, but only one of or more of the 22 eastern rite Catholic Churches. So my conclusion is that it depends on what culture is brought up in tothink one particular Church is the main rite of the Catholic Church.

 

[JReducation]

I disagree JR that the term Roman Catholic makes people think the whole Church is Roman, here is why,

Because say for example the Maronite Church was the largest sui Juris instead of Roman, everybody would think of the Maronite Catholic Church being the only Church that is Catholic as people think the Roman Church is the only Church, so the terms do not make a difference, but the culture or environment the people are in, and since there is only one Western Church which is the Roman church, people here in the western world mainly know of that Sui Juris Church of the Catholic Church. I’m sure there are people in the East who have never hered of the Roman Church, but only one of or more of the 22 eastern rite Catholic Churches. So my conclusion is that it depends on what culture is brought up in tothink one particular Church is the main rite of the Catholic Church.

I’m going to disagree on this one, only because the Church of Rome has the primacy over all the Catholic Churches and secondly, for over 1,000 years, every pope has been elected from among the Roman Catholic bishops, even with Oriental Catholics voting in the conclave. I believe that any Eastern Catholic knows the term “Roman Catholic”, as well as any well educated non-Catholic.

I’m of Israeli roots. We have Orthodox, Eastern Catholics and Roman Catholics in Israel. Everyone knows the Roman Catholics even though they are the minority in the Middle East. Roman Catholics have had a strong impact on world history.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Elizium23]

To expand on Br. JR’s correction that the official name is the Latin Church, the official name of our rite is the Roman Rite. “Latin Rite” is kind of a slang term that came from conflating “Latin Church” and “Roman Rite”.

 

[BVMFatima]

When the Western Church was first established it was called the Church of Rome because that is where the Church was presant, Latin is another way of saying the Roman Church because of the fact Latin was the language of Rome. Constantine TG made it very clear

Damasus

The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the Apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it. The second see, however, is that at Alexandria, consecrated in behalf of blessed Peter by Mark, his disciple and an evangelist, who was sent to Egypt by the Apostle Peter, where he preached the word of truth and finished his glorious martyrdom. The third honorable see, indeed, is that at Antioch, which belonged to the most blessed Apostle Peter, where first he dwelt before he came to Rome, and where the name Christians was first applied, as to a new people (The Decree of Damasus*3 [A.D. 382]).

St. Irenaeus*
“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . . handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus” (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).

Pope Damasus I

“Likewise it is decreed: . . . [W]e have considered that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see [today], therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it” (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).

 

[BVMFatima]

St. Augustine"If all men throughout the world were such as you most vainly accuse them of having been, what has the chair of the Roman church done to you, in which Peter sat, and in which Anastasius sits today?" (Against the Letters of Petilani 2:118 [A.D. 402]).

As you can see, the Early Church called the Western Church the Church of Rome or the Roman Church

 

[ByzCathCantor]

As you can see, the Early Church called the Western Church the Church of Rome or the Roman Church

Yes, several hundred years before the Great Schism, with unity intact and ecclesiology that was much different than exists today (on the Catholic side). There was no such thing as Eastern Catholic Churches back then, in today’s sense, among other things.

BrotherJR’s posts here (#45 and #51) were both succinct and accurate on this topic. Elizium23’s post (#54) on Latin Church v. Roman Rite was also most instructive.

 

[clem456]

These are all Latin rites, because they are found only in the Latin Church. But if you look at your missal, it says Roman Missal and your breviary says the Roman Breviary. It’s referring to the rite, not the Church.

Many people have referred to the Latin Church as the Roman Catholic Church, because they think that there is only one Catholic Church and by saying Roman Catholic they have everyone covered, which we know is not the case.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Is there a family tree type of history available anywhere, so a person can visually see how these Churches are related to one another?

Are non-Latin Churches on board with the Pope?
When a church uses a nationality name, for instance “Greek Catholic…”, Is this a separate branch of the the Latin Church or is it an Orthodox Church? All very confusing.

 

[BVMFatima]

Is there a family tree type of history available anywhere, so a person can visually see how these Churches are related to one another?

Are non-Latin Churches on board with the Pope?
When a church uses a nationality name, for instance “Greek Catholic…”, Is this a separate branch of the the Latin Church or is it an Orthodox Church? All very confusing.

All sui juris churches are as Catholic as Roman Catholics are, its just the Orthodox who are not in. communion

 

[Filii_Dei]

Are non-Latin Churches on board with the Pope?

Yes, there are Churchessui iuris in addition to the Latin Church that are in full communion with Rome.

When a church uses a nationality name, for instance “Greek Catholic…”, Is this a separate branch of the the Latin Church or is it an Orthodox Church? All very confusing.

They are neither. Ukrainian Greek Catholics, for instance, are members of the sui iuris Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. They are not from the Latin Church, which is a different sui iuris Church, or the Orthodox Church, which is a different group of Churches not in communion with the Catholic Church.

To add to the confusion, Eastern Catholics may sometimes call themselves both Orthodox and Catholic, but that’s for another day.