What is the deal with "PERSONAL Lord and Savior?

[Tyrel777]

This is off topic from my original posed question- So if you want to create a new thread for this we can or just let this thread go off in another direction

**Tyrel777 you said- >>whoever believes, repents, and THEN is baptized. the only things we NEED for salvation are “confessing and believing that Christ is LORD” and repenting. then, when we mean this ONE TIME DECISION with our heart’s, when are CALLED by God, and we submit to His call, he (according to Scripture) takes our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh. <<

Tyrell, I want your understanding here. Now is what you just said above an absolute for every single person born on this planet?

What about babies who die before they have a chance to believe?

What about the severly mentally retarded or brain damaged?

And a third group --What about those who acknowledge a God and do the things approved of by God but have never heard of Jesus?

Second:
It is not a One Time Decision because we have free will and can change our minds at any time- The reality of it is people have a crisises (sp?) of faith all the time. It has to be a continuing or ongoing decision a perserverance to the end. I can quote scripture if you would like

Tyrell also said * >>NO. we cant repeat his sacrifice! ITS DONE!!<<*
Absolutely we agree- Once for All That doesn’t go against Catholic doctrine at all.

about your first point, I believe that is (for any Christian) a tough point to face…but, knowing God is just, and He is all powerful…I take this into consideration…

people like you and I, grown and able to reason, able to think and HAVE heard of Jesus, well… we accept Him! but Scripture says that no one seeks God themselves…that faith in and of itself, is a gift from God. so, healthy minded or not, we cant have faith unless God gives it to us. i firmly believe God can give faith to the weak of mind. and again, He is loving and just. ( i hope that helps!!)

and about small children, it is also a very tricky area to talk about…
I believe the Bible says that when Christ died and was resurrected all sins committed before then were forgiven (therefore allowing the prophets of the OT to enter Heaven, as well as other God-fearing OT people) as well as forgiving the first sin, although sin is still in the world and stains every persons heart, once we can choose what we do, we cant help but atleast once in life, choose evil. its our nature yes, but because of Christ, babies are not damned by Adam and Eve (anymore), in this i believe God is just and deserves glory for His justice (since that IS His top priority).
short answer is, if babies going to heaven glorifies God (and i believe it does), the God will allow them to enter Heaven. its all up to Him!

and about the 3rd group, i think Romans 10:2-4 answers that almost perfectly.
“2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.”
I hope the Holy Spirit will convict you on this one in accordance with God’s will.

and about your second point, we do not have [complete] free will. as i said before, we do not just up and CHOOSE to be evil, we are by nature.and we only “do good” by he grace of God!..because according to the Bible we are slaves to sin. but when we truly accept Christ, He breaks those chains sin has on us. not by anything we do, not Sacraments, prayers, nothin. Christ alone.
not to say we sin no more. Paul even talks about Christians struggling with sin. even he himself! but the difference is, when we truly make that “one time decision” as i put it, we may wander, and go astray, but because of Christ He will not forsake us.
i have seen SOO much evidence of this in my life!
but for a Catholic (or heck…ANY denomination for that matter) who was born into, and raised in church, its not the same. they didnt choose it. their parents did.
but it is good to raise children exposed to God, but idk…not FORCING them…which is often what happens and many of my former and current Catholic friends can testify to. and yes, people doubt and have a “crises of faith” as you say. even Christ’s closest disciples messed up, and dwindled in their faith. shoot…and these guys SAW and walked WITH Jesus literally! but this didnt change them from being Apostles! (thankfully)

and about changing our minds, if we REALLY believed in Christ we can’t change our minds. we cannot serve 2 masters. we either LOVE or HATE God. we are either hot or cold. cuz lukewarm gets spit out.
and i agree that it is a perseverance. a continuing faith. yes yes yes! but only if it is truly sincere and genuine. and if our faith is, so is our salvation through Christ! when we truly believe and are given the Holy Spirit by God, when we go astray or doubt, the Holy Spirit brings us back close! because God dearly loves His children!

and lastly about your 3 remark, I have seen, heard, experienced otherwise. but i wont call you a liar. lol. i would really prefer what you say over what ive seen and learned… its way nicer to think about lol.
i dont have room to elaborate… sorry!
but thank you for posing your rather tough questions. they caused my spiritual gears to turn a bit more haha. i sincerely hope what ive said has shed some light on things for you (and whoever else reads this). twas a blessing.

-Tyler

 

[bmw8901]

The terminology may not be the best, but I understand their meaning, and I happen to agree with it. “Personal” could make it sound very one sided and not about the Church or even worship together, but I don’t think that’s what they mean. Like already said, it’s an individual commitment to Christ.

Everyone should have a deep, meaningful relationship with Christ. And I don’t mean “Jesus is my best buddy” either. He is God of the universe; so while we can enjoy Him as our friend, we must also remember His power and majesty.

I believe Pope Benedict’s message regarding this is similar but phrased a little differently. He talks about having a friendship with Christ. From Wikipedia:

“Friendship with Jesus Christ” is a frequent theme of his preaching.[39][40][41] He stressed that on this intimate friendship, “everything depends.”[42] He has also said: “We are all called to open ourselves to this friendship with God… speaking to him as to a friend, the only One who can make the world both good and happy… That is all we have to do is put ourselves at his disposal…is an extremely important message.”

I think I like that term a little better, but some people might not get it as much.

I have a friend I once told about how Benedict stressed that we must have a friendship with Christ. He laughed at me and sort of mocked it saying it was so silly and ridiculous. Now, keep in mind he is a Born-Again, Evangelical Christian who has a personal relationship with Christ! I asked him how this was really any different than what the Pope was saying and he really didn’t have an answer.

At any rate, I don’t think it’s a bad thing. Many people (both Catholics and Protestants) just go through the motions of faith and don’t really think about it. We need to! I’m probably on my way back to Catholicism, and Christ is my personal Lord and Savior. I have a relationship with Him, pray to Him, and maybe, one day, if I can accept it 100% with take Eucharist again. But He is Savior to the whole world and waiting for everyone to come to Him as well.

Thanks!

 

[onenow1]

about God’s will. and about your second point, we do not have [complete] free will.

Hi, Tyrel

Quote= onenow1, In the beginning God commanded Adam, not to eat from the tree, a pretty good indication of free will, would’nt you say ? Also Jesus in the garden when in His humanity says not my will but yours.

As far as making choices for our children, from birth we make many decisions for our children and one of them is indeed baptism and don’t you think the Lord would be pleased with this decision ?

Matthew 28: 19-20, Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

In the above verses teaching them is sooo, important after baptism.

God Bless, onenow1

 

[wisdomseeker]

Tyrel777;5979846:

about God’s will. and about your second point, we do not have [complete] free will.

Hi, Tyrel

Quote= onenow1, In the beginning God commanded Adam, not to eat from the tree, a pretty good indication of free will, would’nt you say ? Also Jesus in the garden when in His humanity says not my will but yours.

As far as making choices for our children, from birth we make many decisions for our children and one of them is indeed baptism and don’t you think the Lord would be pleased with this decision ?

Matthew 28: 19-20, Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

In the above verses teaching them is sooo, important after baptism.

God Bless, onenow1

How difficult it is for non Catholics to understand the Church. as Catholics, we have our roots in Judaism. as they did it, so do we Catholics. Jews were told to teach their children the Faith. children did not come to choose what if they want to be jews or not. the same way as us Catholics, our children is to be tougth the Catholic Faith, they are to remain Catholics, raised and fed in the True Faith.

:byzsoc:

 

[brb2]

Its not only ‘independent’ personal … or only ‘interdependent’ social. Its Both.

Christ prayed directly to the Father … one to one. He also taught us to pray in private.
Yet, he also taught us to engage in social prayer [in the Church setting] … and to receive him in Eucharist sacrament, within the social Church. And, in the Early Church … whole families became Christian collectively.

And the Lord’s Prayer begins OUR father … not my father. And as another has pointed out … we have the 'whereever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name" scripture to emphasize the interdependent Church in action. We have the tree of life symbolizm … to depict all Christians as grafted collectively into Christ. We at the end of the branch … are genetically / organically bonded to Christ via our 2 millenium of forebears [and ultimately linked via the Apostles / Mary … who are most closely rooted to Christ]. As Pope JP2 said, "God in his deepest mystery is FAMILY. Father, Son, and H.S. [within his Church].

We Are ‘of necessity’ Family ! … not rogue, independent ‘frozen chosens’.