What is the difference between Catholicism and Orthodoxy?

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Browsing around Orthodox websites and reading their FAQ sections as a Catholic is in fact rather boring for me.

The reason being is that I just do not see any difference between our two traditions other than church structure and theological approaches to the same ideas.

Is there anyone out there who can further contrast our traditions please? I see what is similar but I’m just not finding where we differ.
 
Browsing around Orthodox websites and reading their FAQ sections as a Catholic is in fact rather boring for me.

The reason being is that I just do not see any difference between our two traditions other than church structure and theological approaches to the same ideas.

Is there anyone out there who can further contrast our traditions please? I see what is similar but I’m just not finding where we differ.
There are so many differences I don’t know where to start. The primary issues which separated the two Churches were the Filioque (Catholics eventually accepted, Orthodox don’t) and Rome’s development of the role of the Papacy into Supremacy and eventually Infallibility.

Orther issues are Catholics began using Unleavened bread for the Eucharist in 1053 and Orthodox continue using Leavened bread, Rome stopped using Baptism (word means Immersion) and began using Pouring as a norm rather than as an exception, Rome stopped ordaining married men to the priesthood, there’s more but this should be sufficient to begin discussions.
 
These are just liturgical and administrative differences though. I see no difference in theology, just how the theology came to be practiced.
 
As someone who is looking into Orthodoxy, I am struck by how what may be seen as “liturgical and administrative” differences have actually resulted in very different faiths. So I’m not so sure that I would leave it at that, because the effects of these differences are very wide-reaching. It is not a matter of the Catholics having a Pope and the Orthodox not having one, as is often thought (I’m not saying you think that, mind you). It is actually fundamentally different ways of approaching faith, of understanding it and how we are to live it and what its actual content is, for lack of a better way to put it.

Too much has been reduced to “scholasticism” (on the Western side) vs. “mysticism” (on the Eastern side) that I don’t think those labels really help anymore. I know that one of the things that kind of brought me out of my comfort zone with regards to accepting RC doctrine was my own rejection of the overly scholastic and philosophical nature of the RC approach to the faith, and that certainly came before I had read page one of any particular piece of Orthodox apologetics. But that’s just me, I guess.

Basically, whatever is the substance of the difference in outlook between the Orthodox churches and the Catholic churches, it has resulted in fundamental differences that cannot be sufficiently explained if you are just looking at RC sources (because they sometimes underplay them) or Orthodox sources (because they sometimes overplay them). They must be observed in the lives of the individual believers as well as of the community. I know from hours of conversations with people (laity as well as priests) that there is far more to it than just taking on any particular issue in isolation might show us.
 
i would argue that these are theological issues as there is a theology of baptism and Eucharist, and Holy orders. I am certainly not qualified to explain them but others here are.
 
The Filioque is 100% theological difference as is each of the issues I’ve mentioned. If you choose to ignore the theological differences behind each of these differences then there’s no point to this thread.

You are not alone. I do see this attitude from Catholics a lot that try to sweep under the rug the very heart of the theological differences.

I thought by your post that you wanted to understand them. My apologies for misunderstanding your intentions.
These are just liturgical and administrative differences though. I see no difference in theology, just how the theology came to be practiced.
 
If you choose to ignore the theological differences behind each of these differences then there’s no point to this thread. …
I thought by your post that you wanted to understand them. My apologies for misunderstanding your intentions.
I do want to understand them, I’m just showing my perspective of it so proper explanations can be made to me. I’m trying to demonstrate my ignorance so if anyone eventually does try to explain the differences here, they know to start from scratch and not assume anything.
 
I do want to understand them, I’m just showing my perspective of it so proper explanations can be made to me. I’m trying to demonstrate my ignorance so if anyone eventually does try to explain the differences here, they know to start from scratch and not assume anything.
Which issue do you want to start with?
 
Which issue do you want to start with?
Ah, I’ll bite, as I have always found the similarities between Catholicism too little to explain schism.

Please explain the Filoque Clause, what it means theologically, and why Rome accepted it while the eastern churches rejected it. What belief does the Filoque clause change? Thanks for the explanation. 🙂
 
Ah, I’ll bite, as I have always found the similarities between Catholicism too little to explain schism.

Please explain the Filoque Clause, what it means theologically, and why Rome accepted it while the eastern churches rejected it. What belief does the Filoque clause change? Thanks for the explanation. 🙂
Yes, that would be great. Thank you in advance!
 
Hey there all…

This sounds like it could turn out to be a really worthwhile and informative thread.

I will give some time to finding out some of the fundamental differences between Orthodox and Catholic Churches - and try to post up some summaries of issues to choose from - for discussion.

As for your first topic - the Filioque - I will try to post up some Orthodox explanations of the differences, with an emphasis on why these matter, theologically, and the implications spiritually of the differences.

Will get back later when I’ve got something substantial to talk about on that. I will try not to merely post tons of links - but extract key info summaries, and source it, in case anyone wants to look further into details. It’s easier for forum participation, without going away and spending years reading stuff away from the discussion.

I can understand how many Catholics get the impression that any differences between our Churches are merely “semantics” or “window dressing” - but I assure you - they are not.

Some of the core differences have massive theological and spiritual implications for the faithful - but need to be understood from the Orthodox perspective. A lot of Roman Catholics in these forums tend to dismiss Orthodox differences as “insignificant” or non-existent. Not so.

I think they do this because they don’t like to admit their own changes, innovations and deviations from the beliefs and practices of the unified Christian Church pre-schism (the first 1000 years) and why 1000 years after that - their teachings and practices continue to deviate further from the Eastern Orthodox fidelity with ancient Church teaching and practice.
 
The filioque is/was opposed by the Orthodox for a few different reasons. I’ll do my best to cover them in brief. I’ll also try to find a link to a recent thread on the subject, which in turn has more links to threads on the subject.

First it should be understood that the Filioque came about in Spain in a drive to fight off the Arian heresy (believe Jesus to be a created being). To be quite honest the only way I can see this adding anything to the argument is if you interprete it in a manner the modern Catholic Church has deemed heretical (I’ll get to that later). The problem with this is that the entire Nicene Creed was formulated in the first place with the idea of fighting off the Arian Heresy in mind. The creed constantly contradicts Arian theology, and was designed specifically for that.

The first big issue with the filioque was that there was an attempt to force it on the East by Rome, this of course shows the disagreement on the issue of the nature of Rome’s Primacy. Simply put we Orthodox believe that only a council accepted as Ecumenical Council can dictate practice to the rest of the Church. While the Catholic Church agrees with this in theory, it says that a council is Ecumenical if the Pope says it is, in other words any council called by the Pope and including only Latin Bishops has, in the view of the Catholic Church, the potential to decree practice for the entire Church.

The next issue brought on by the filioque is that it opens up the idea of the dual-procession (symbolized by an upside down triangle). That is that the Holy Spirit has as its origin both the Father and the Son. This is a view that is heretical, and has been acknowledged as being heretical by the Catholic Church, nonetheless as I said earlier, it is only by interpreting it this way that it could actually fullfill its purpose of fighting Arians. By emphasizing that Christ is co-equal with the Father over the third part of the Trinity (although all are officially co-equal) you create the logical framework that it is impossible that Christ could be a created being (I hope that makes sense).

Next you have to keep in mind that the Council of Constantinople, which brought us the text we all use was Greek. An official Latin version was issued by the council, but Greek was the primary language of the council, and since translation is an inexact science, one should always look at the originating text to figure out what the intentions of the authors were. In this case the Greek text is very clear that the line in question is saying that the Holy Spirit originates with the Father, while the Latin text is less clear, saying the Holy Spirit simply proceeds from the Father, that is it is not made clear that the Father is the point of origin (although Doctrine in both Churches holds he is). Therefore we have to go to the Greek if we want to understand exactly what it is trying to say, the problem is that if you add “και ό υιος” - “and the son” into the Greek text, you have a statement that the Holy Spirit originates with both the Father and the Son - a very gnostic sounding concept. This meaning must then be considered if you want to add the term to the Latin. Figure out what the original writers were trying to say and go from there.
I should point out that the last thread I discussed this subject on the Catholics arguing with me did acknowledge that in Greek the filioque would be heretical, but refused to acknowledge the attempt to force the Eastern Churches to add it to the Greek.

As a final point the Catholic Church once agreed that it was heretical. Pope Leo the Great had two giant tablets erected at the Vatican sans filioque to stand as a testament to the Church’s position on the matter (and I am told they are still there by people who have visited).

Essentially it boils down to at best leading to the possibility of error, and at worst being outright heresy.

This thread might flush out some of these ideas a bit more for you, as well as provide some counter arguments.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=410780

I hope that was clear enough.

There are of course other things. My question is if Rome really thinks there is nothing theological that seperates us, why don’t they rejoin us?
 
There are of course other things. My question is if Rome really thinks there is nothing theological that seperates us, why don’t they rejoin us?
Honestly I think it’s a pride issue from both parties. :o
 
Ah, I’ll bite, as I have always found the similarities between Catholicism too little to explain schism.

Please explain the Filoque Clause, what it means theologically, and why Rome accepted it while the eastern churches rejected it. What belief does the Filoque clause change? Thanks for the explanation. 🙂
The filioque clause was added to the Latin version of the Nicene-Constantinople Creed, which was formulated in 381 and was itself an expansion on the original Nicene Creed of 325.

The clause, meaning “and the Son”, refers to the procession of the Holy Spirit in the Trinity. The filioque clause, added into the Creed, reads, “And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son…” According to Scripture, the Holy Spirit “proceeds” from the Father. The Orthodox maintain that the Father is monarch and is the source of the Son (whom the Father begets) and the Holy Spirit (who proceeds from the Father). Latin Catholics, while in agreement that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, believe that the Holy Spirit must also proceed from the Son as well.

The Church is an icon of the Trinity, and there exists a relationship between the life of the Trinity and the life of the Church. Many Orthodox argue that the Holy Spirit is subordinated by the filioque assertion, and that the distinction of persons also becomes blurred, leading to semi-modalism, where the persons of the Trinity are only masks of action and expression of the God-head. As an example of how this would become reflected amongst Christians: were the Holy Spirit subordinated in relation to the other persons of the Trinity, this would become reflected in the emphases of liturgical prayers and ultimately would shape the direction of spirituality and understanding of God and his relationship with mankind. Were the Trinity understood as a modality rather than a communion of persons, then the Church too would understand itself as an institution of many expressions rather than a communion of persons and Churches.
 
Honestly I think it’s a pride issue from both parties. :o
I won’t deny there is some of that. However if one church honestly believes we’re the same, it seems to me they should be taking the first steps to reunion.
 
I won’t deny there is some of that. However if one church honestly believes we’re the same, it seems to me they should be taking the first steps to reunion.
We may not be “the same” but our differences a not sufficient to force separation. The CC has taken the first step: we receive EO Christians at communion.
 
We may not be “the same” but our differences a not sufficient to force separation. The CC has taken the first step: we receive EO Christians at communion.
That’s not really a first step towards healing anything, just a statement that you don’t see a real difference.
 
I won’t deny there is some of that. However if one church honestly believes we’re the same, it seems to me they should be taking the first steps to reunion.
Do you believe that Jesus and God are one?
 
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