what is the difference between episcopal and catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter barbgal
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
nhylan said:
Wisdomseeker is right in that it depends on what you want to hear. Anglican/Episcopalian understanding of the OHCAC is different from the Roman understanding. The Roman church also insists that Anglican Holy orders are “Utterly null and void.” Unfortunatly, for Roman Catholics (who are compelled to believe this), they are wrong. Episcopal and Anglican priests around the world have a traceable lineage back to the apostles. Episcopalians/Anglicans believe in the real presence in the Eucharist though like our Orthodox Brothers we do not explain exactly how it happens, its a mystery. Organizationally we are largely based around a similar polity that the Roman and Orthodox churches maintain but the laypeople have a much more active roll in the governance of the church. Rather than the Archbishop of Canterbury being like a Pope he is a focus of our Communion. We look to him for guidance and prayer but not for governance. There are also local primates for each church which act as administrative heads, they are called and elected for 6 year terms. Every diocese has at least one Bishop, some have more (the diocese I’m in has 3). Anglican’s understand themselves to be part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and confirm this every time Mass/Eucharist/Service is celebrated. We also, as posters on here have noticed and the news and media pick up on, air quite a bit of our dirty laundry out to dry. We tend to publicly debate issues, we have a great deal of transparency when it comes to communion and church-wide issues. We have never, and never will say we are the whole OHCAC, but we are part of it. We don’t have all the answers, no one does and that openness to our faults is what attracts people to Anglicanism. We are messy and I think that sometimes that sort of insults the sensibilities of the Orthodox and some Catholics. in the words of the former Archbishop of Canterbury Michael Ramsey:

For while the Anglican church is vindicated by its place in history, with a strikingly balanced witness to Gospel and Church and sound learning, its greater vindication lies in its pointing through its own history to something of which it is a fragment. Its credentials are its incompleteness, with the tension and the travail of its soul. It is clumsy and untidy, it baffles neatness and logic. For it is not sent to commend itself as ‘the best type of Christianity,’ but by its very brokenness to point to the universal Church wherein all have died./QUOTE

Ok. I can understand why you say that. but instead of telling me, Just show me how your church stood alone wihtout the CC before henry VIII decided to be the head of the CC in england? show me proof, please?
Click to expand...
 
To answer the OP, the Episcopal Church has episcopal polity like Catholicism but it is not a national church, something folks like Schiori, the current presiding bishop, doesn’t understand. Bishops are elected, priests chosen by a vestry, etc. The Episcopal Church doesn’t have a papacy or metropolitan but in many cases has an archbishop like Venables for the Southern Cone or ++Duncan for ACNA or ++ABC Rowan Williams.

TEC has a vast spectrum of theological views spanning from low church evangelical calvinism to high church and anglo-catholicism that sometimes seems very Roman Catholic outwardly.

TEC is very liberal for the most part. I say “for the most part” because there are southern states that have not followed the trends that Schiori has fought for—acceptance of gay “marriage,” cohabitation, openly active gay clergy, etc. Episcopalians tend to be quite liberal but again, depends on where they are geographically often times. In general, as a body, they have gone in exceptionally liberal directions, the Anaheim Convention being the latest evidence of that.

The ACNA Anglicans broke off from The Episcopal Church mostly for divergent thinking with them on sexuality but also the differences in their views on Christ himself.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
A few posters referred to the Anglican Church “breaking away” from the Catholic Church because of Henry’s divorce.

As I understand it, the Church of England DID NOT EXIST before Henry VIII wanted his divorce and decided to declare himself divorced in spite of papal refusal to grant an annulment. He created the Church of England and had the Catholic monasteries and cathedrals destroyed all over England.

He was a Catholic before he created the Anglican Church. So that is where the split occurred and where the succession of Rome stopped for his “church.” And that is why the Anglican/Episcopal Church would be Catholic except for the succession issue. They do everything the same b/c it was all Henry knew, he never wanted to be anything but Catholic but he also wanted a divorce, which the Church could not grant him.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is the history. One wonder what these have been told.
 
I predict a GKC post coming with the statement “decree of nullity” any minute now! 😛
TheRealJuliane said:
A few posters referred to the Anglican Church “breaking away” from the Catholic Church because of Henry’s divorce.

As I understand it, the Church of England DID NOT EXIST before Henry VIII wanted his divorce and decided to declare himself divorced in spite of papal refusal to grant an annulment. He created the Church of England and had the Catholic monasteries and cathedrals destroyed all over England.

He was a Catholic before he created the Anglican Church. So that is where the split occurred and where the succession of Rome stopped for his “church.” And that is why the Anglican/Episcopal Church would be Catholic except for the succession issue. They do everything the same b/c it was all Henry knew, he never wanted to be anything but Catholic but he also wanted a divorce, which the Church could not grant him.
Click to expand...
 
wisdomseeker said:
nhylan;7648862:
Wisdomseeker is right in that it depends on what you want to hear. Anglican/Episcopalian understanding of the OHCAC is different from the Roman understanding. The Roman church also insists that Anglican Holy orders are “Utterly null and void.” Unfortunatly, for Roman Catholics (who are compelled to believe this), they are wrong. Episcopal and Anglican priests around the world have a traceable lineage back to the apostles. Episcopalians/Anglicans believe in the real presence in the Eucharist though like our Orthodox Brothers we do not explain exactly how it happens, its a mystery. Organizationally we are largely based around a similar polity that the Roman and Orthodox churches maintain but the laypeople have a much more active roll in the governance of the church. Rather than the Archbishop of Canterbury being like a Pope he is a focus of our Communion. We look to him for guidance and prayer but not for governance. There are also local primates for each church which act as administrative heads, they are called and elected for 6 year terms. Every diocese has at least one Bishop, some have more (the diocese I’m in has 3). Anglican’s understand themselves to be part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and confirm this every time Mass/Eucharist/Service is celebrated. We also, as posters on here have noticed and the news and media pick up on, air quite a bit of our dirty laundry out to dry. We tend to publicly debate issues, we have a great deal of transparency when it comes to communion and church-wide issues. We have never, and never will say we are the whole OHCAC, but we are part of it. We don’t have all the answers, no one does and that openness to our faults is what attracts people to Anglicanism. We are messy and I think that sometimes that sort of insults the sensibilities of the Orthodox and some Catholics. in the words of the former Archbishop of Canterbury Michael Ramsey:

For while the Anglican church is vindicated by its place in history, with a strikingly balanced witness to Gospel and Church and sound learning, its greater vindication lies in its pointing through its own history to something of which it is a fragment. Its credentials are its incompleteness, with the tension and the travail of its soul. It is clumsy and untidy, it baffles neatness and logic. For it is not sent to commend itself as ‘the best type of Christianity,’ but by its very brokenness to point to the universal Church wherein all have died.
Click to expand...
I can’t nor do I have to. Does the Orthodox Church have to prove to you that they existed alone before the great schism? and again why the obsession with Henry VIII? The current separation is not the one he caused. Just a scapegoat.
Click to expand...
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Please explain…
nhylan;7649143:
The schism that occured during the reign of Henry VIII was repaired under his daughter Mary. According to the edicts which resulted in the re-unification with Rome this did away with the separation permanently. Thus, the current seperation occurred under the rule of his future progeny and not Henry.
Click to expand...
 
wisdomseeker said:
Right. Because there is no prove, and if there is no prove do not affirm something that is not true.
I am not talk about the splits among yourselves. that is not my problem.
Click to expand...
Did you only read the first sentence?
 
Gotcha. That is correct. Elizabeth started the rift, not Hank. You’re right.
nhylan said:
gurneyhalleck1;7649145:
Please explain…

The schism that occured during the reign of Henry VIII was repaired under his daughter Mary. According to the edicts which resulted in the re-unification with Rome this did away with the separation permanently. Thus, the current seperation occurred under the rule of his future progeny and not Henry.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
TheRealJuliane said:
A few posters referred to the Anglican Church “breaking away” from the Catholic Church because of Henry’s divorce.

As I understand it, the Church of England DID NOT EXIST before Henry VIII wanted his divorce and decided to declare himself divorced in spite of papal refusal to grant an annulment. He created the Church of England and had the Catholic monasteries and cathedrals destroyed all over England.

He was a Catholic before he created the Anglican Church. So that is where the split occurred and where the succession of Rome stopped for his “church.” And that is why the Anglican/Episcopal Church would be Catholic except for the succession issue. They do everything the same b/c it was all Henry knew, he never wanted to be anything but Catholic but he also wanted a divorce, which the Church could not grant him.
Click to expand...
Henry didn’t want a divorce. There was no such thing. He wanted a decree of nullity( as was quite common at the time), with respect to his marriage to Catherine, based on (as his Causa stated) the Leventine prohibition. It is a long and complicated story and I get to post about it regularly. It seems.

GKC
 
See post #20…
GKC said:
Henry didn’t want a divorce. There was no such thing. He wanted a decree of nullity( as was quite common at the time), with respect to his marriage to Catherine, based on (as his Causa stated) the Leventine prohibition. It is a long and complicated story and I get to post about it regularly. It seems.

GKC
Click to expand...
 
The Catholic Church is ‘Catholic’: united in time and space in one Faith.
In time through pure apostolic succession
In space through unity with Peter and his successors.
Both unity of time and of space make up what is known as full communion with Peter and the apostles and their successors until time end.

The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ, the one Tree Jesus spoke about.
In time, misguided Catholics have been cutting of some branches which became what is known today as denominations. Some of these were cut off by other Christians from their mother denominations.

The King of England mentioned above cut off the Church in England. This branch became known later as the Anglican Communion.Because it was cut off, it has been loosing life ever since then although it still have some greenness here and there. Because of this, the Anglican Communion is itself deeply divided. Anglicans in what is known as Global South don’t want to have anything to do with the Episcopal Church. I see it as a sub-branch that is about done in cutting itself off from the Anglican Communion.

Many people have ways of looking at the situation, but I prefer the prophecy of the Tree. It makes things more clear to me when it is about understanding Catholicism vs other denominations. Many Anglicans are seeing this and they are coming back before it is too late. Many of these have been asking Rome to let them back in the Church. In the USA there have been what is known as Anglican Use liturgy used by former Episcopalians. However, very soon, because of bigger numbers and this time from around the world, Anglican Ordinariates are being set up to receive Episcopalians and other Anglicans who want to be in full communion with the Body of Christ.

God bless
 
agrange said:
Episcopal Church USA, thinks Homosexuality is an acceptable life style. It does not preach condemnation of and salvation from sin. It promotes Homosexual marriage as equivalent of Marriage between a man and woman. “Catholic lite”, not hardly. It is as apostate as it can get. They are losing membership because of the extreme libertarian view that just about anything goes. The Episcopal church reminds me of what the new testament writer said when he described those who" have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof."
I feel sorry for the Episcopalians who fell “Stuck” in a church they no longer recognize.
Click to expand...
I’m sure the leadership of the Episcopal Church would not agree with your rationale. Episcopalians are not “Catholic lite” which in some circles is considered derogatory; we just have different views and teachings from the RCC; that’s why we are not Catholic! 🙂
 
nablaise said:
The Catholic Church is ‘Catholic’: united in time and space in one Faith.
In time through pure apostolic succession
In space through unity with Peter and his successors.
Both unity of time and of space make up what is known as full communion with Peter and the apostles and their successors until time end.

The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ, the one Tree Jesus spoke about.
In time, misguided Catholics have been cutting of some branches which became what is known today as denominations. Some of these were cut off by other Christians from their mother denominations.

The King of England mentioned above cut off the Church in England. This branch became known later as the Anglican Communion.Because it was cut off, it has been loosing life ever since then although it still have some greenness here and there. Because of this, the Anglican Communion is itself deeply divided. Anglicans in what is known as Global South don’t want to have anything to do with the Episcopal Church. I see it as a sub-branch that is about done in cutting itself off from the Anglican Communion.

Many people have ways of looking at the situation, but I prefer the prophecy of the Tree. It makes things more clear to me when it is about understanding Catholicism vs other denominations. Many Anglicans are seeing this and they are coming back before it is too late. Many of these have been asking Rome to let them back in the Church. In the USA there have been what is known as Anglican Use liturgy used by former Episcopalians. However, very soon, because of bigger numbers and this time from around the world, Anglican Ordinariates are being set up to receive Episcopalians and other Anglicans who want to be in full communion with the Body of Christ.

God bless
Click to expand...
I agree with you here. I surely believe that the CC has opens her doors for everyone but one day i believe that the doors will close and no one will be able to enter. Jesus Himself said that will be like in the times of Noah. Our Lord closed the doors and no one survived outside the Ark. So it will be in the end.
 
GKC said:
Henry didn’t want a divorce. There was no such thing. He wanted a decree of nullity( as was quite common at the time), with respect to his marriage to Catherine, based on (as his Causa stated) the Leventine prohibition. It is a long and complicated story and I get to post about it regularly. It seems.

GKC
Click to expand...
OK, so pick at nits, whydoncha…
 
It’s an important distinction, Julianne. Henry would say that he tried to work with the system. I think.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top