What is the difference between lust and natural sexual thoughts?

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I’m aware that as humans we have a natural desire to have sex every now and then, but that would not be lust if you do not entertain the idea. However, if you think of someone having sex with you or if you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her but without genuinely lusting, is that a mortal sin?
 
I’m aware that as humans we have a natural desire to have sex every now and then, but that would not be lust if you do not entertain the idea. However, if you think of someone having sex with you or if you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her but without genuinely lusting, is that a mortal sin?
I’m trying to get my head around how you can “want to have sex with” someone without “lusting”…:confused:

Humans can become “spontaneously” aroused, and have certain urges, but that is a far cry from thinking, “of someone having sex with you or if you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her…”

It seems to me that you are trying to split a hair too thin here.
If the person you are thinking about (your lover) is indeed your spouse then no sin is committed, just a natural desire that is part of marriage intimacy. It the person is NOT your spouse…
If you consciously “think of someone having sex with you” - not just a random thought…Then it is a sin.
If you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her, meaning that you have been thinking about it…this too is likely a sin.

Best to talk to your confessor about these matters…

Peace
James
 
We need to remember that all our desires should be to please God.

We may express that desire by pleasing the spouse He gave us, making her the happiest woman in the world, with no expectation for “reciprocity.”

Ain’t easy…but this is how our desire should be ordered. We should self-donate.
 
I’m aware that as humans we have a natural desire to have sex every now and then, but that would not be lust if you do not entertain the idea. However, if you think of someone having sex with you or if you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her but without genuinely lusting, is that a mortal sin?
There is a difference between a temptation…(for example some thought coming out of the blue that you do not consent to…)

and sin…where one knowingly consents to the thoughts.
 
I’m aware that as humans we have a natural desire to have sex every now and then, but that would not be lust if you do not entertain the idea. However, if you think of someone having sex with you or if you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her but without genuinely lusting, is that a mortal sin?
Sexual desire is not bad or evil. Its important to understand that evil does not exist on its own. Evil is the perversion or the destruction of the good. As such, a rock is good, human beings are good, air is good, sex is good - everything God created is good. That’s what the first creation account of Genesis tells us. It is when we seek to destroy or pervert the goods God has created that evil and thus death enter the world. When perverted, it turns inward and eventually destroys itself. As such, sexual desire is good and will not destroy a relationship, but lust will.

The Catechism defines lust as the inordinate desire for sexual pleasure. It is that desire which seeks sexual pleasure to such an amount that the purpose of sex is lost. It is like perfecting a recipe so that it tastes wonderfully but finding that you have either killed all of the nutrients and good qualities food has to offer. The food offers you nothing of value and thus your body can do nothing but either reject it by throwing up, or it’ll run through you like diarehea (thus also removing your ability to digest other nutrients) or it becomes a total poison and kills you.

The purpose of sex is to bring a married couple closer together. It forms an intimate bond that assists in stablizing their union. It does this to help meet the primary purpose of sexuality and of marriage - to not only create children but to foster their development in a safe, secure and loving home. Sexuality only finds its true meaning within marriage. Else it turns against itself and destroys the very thing it is intended to foster. Lust destroys relationships, destroys unity between spouses, motivates couples to fear pregnancy and often to the point of resorting to murder if an unplanned pregnancy occurs.

If you look at someone you don’t know and start using your imagination to gain sexual pleasure over the thought of engaging in sex with them, than you are sinning. If however you are recognizing that you are sexually attracted to this person and decide you might be intersted in developing a relationship with this person, your sexuality is attracting you to the other person even if you’re not fantasizing about what we normally think of as sexual behavior. The key is to be honest with your body and to affirm the value of marriage. If you find that you aren’t interested in marrying her and aren’t on your way to marrying her than it is lust that is motivating you to go or to imagine yourself physically expressing to the person things that aren’t true. You aren’t totally faithfully and fruitfully giving yourself to one another at that point or in your imagination. You’re just after the sense of pleasure whether its emotional or physical pleasure.
 
I’m aware that as humans we have a natural desire to have sex every now and then, but that would not be lust if you do not entertain the idea. However, if you think of someone having sex with you or if you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her but without genuinely lusting, is that a mortal sin?
CCC #2351:
Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
Catholic Encyclopedia:
The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.

The wrongfulness of lust is reducible to this: that venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse. Every such criminal indulgence is a mortal sin, provided of course, it be voluntary in itself and fully deliberate. This is the testimony of St. Paul in the Epistle to the Galatians, v. 19:
Code:
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, . . . Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God."
Moreover, if it be true the gravity of the offences may be measured by the harm they work to the individual or the community, there can be no doubt that lust has in this respect a gravity all its own. Transgressions against the virtues other than purity frequently admit of a minor degree of malice, and are accounted venial. Impurity has the evil distinction that, whenever there is a direct conscious surrender to any of its phases the guilt incurred is always grievous. This judgment, however, needs modifying when there is question of some impure gratification for which a person is responsible, not immediately, but because he had posited its cause, and to which he has not deliberately consented. The act may then be only venially sinful. For the determination of the amount of its wickedness much will depend upon the apprehended proximate danger of giving way on the part of the agent, as well as upon the known capacity of the thing done to bring about venereal pleasure. This teaching applies to external and internal sins alike: “Whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28). However the case may stand as to the extent of the obligation under which one lies to refrain in certain circumstances from actions whose net result is to excite the passions, moralists are at one as to the counsel they give. They all emphasize the perils of the situation, and point out the practical dangers of a failure to refrain. It matters not that there is not, as we suppose, an initial sinful intent. The sheerest prudence and most rudimentary self-knowledge alike demand abstinence, where possible, from things which, though not grievously bad in themselves, yet easily fan into flame the unholy fire which may be smouldering, but it is not extinct.

Lust is said to be a capital sin. The reason is obvious. The pleasure which this vice has as its object is at once so attractive and connatural to human nature as to whet keenly a man’s desire, and so lead him into the commission of many other disorders in the pursuit of it. Theologians ordinarily distinguish various forms of lust in so far as it is a consummated external sin, e.g., fornication, adultery, incest, criminal assault, abduction, and sodomy. Each of these has its own specific malice–a fact to borne in mind for purposes of safeguarding the integrity of sacramental confession.
 
I’m aware that as humans we have a natural desire to have sex every now and then, but that would not be lust if you do not entertain the idea. However, if you think of someone having sex with you or if you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her but without genuinely lusting, is that a mortal sin?
If you have a lover then you are already in a state of mortal sin. The accepted definition of lover is someone you have a sexual relationship with outside marriage!
 
Catechism:

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
 
I think I understand what the OP means. He is asking if it is lust to contemplate our attraction to our boyfriend/girlfriend in imagining being together with them. I think that this kind of thing happens without us really dwelling too much on that. You see your boyfriend/girlfriend and start thinking of how good it would be to embrace him/her and so and so… but that doesn’t mean that we should be always thinking about that, or that you start stripping him/her with your eyes (so to speak). That’s why it’s so important to stay away from temptation and not think too much of “where to draw the line”.
If you “dream” of one day sharing the marital bed with someone that is perfectly normal… and healthy. Just don’t fixate on that.

Hope that helps…
 
I think I understand what the OP means. He is asking if it is lust to contemplate our attraction to our boyfriend/girlfriend in imagining being together with them. I think that this kind of thing happens without us really dwelling too much on that. .
Yes…one should not be thinking that way…beyond that which is chaste and modest.

(Like it can be ok to think of taking a nice walk with them…or just thinking of their face…or I acknowledging that they are attractive…or beautiful…etc…chaste thoughts proper to the unmarried…)
 
I think I understand what the OP means. He is asking if it is lust to contemplate our attraction to our boyfriend/girlfriend in imagining being together with them.
Yes, that’s what I’m saying
 
Yes…one should not be thinking that way…beyond that which is chaste and modest.

(Like it can be ok to think of taking a nice walk with them…or just thinking of their face…or I acknowledging that they are attractive…or beautiful…etc…chaste thoughts proper to the unmarried…)
But if you’re discerning marriage with someone, how can that thought not cross your mind?

What if you’re engaged? Of course every now and then you’re going to think about what your wedding night will be like.

You shouldn’t think about it all the time, but it seems pretty natural to me.
 
But if you’re discerning marriage with someone, how can that thought not cross your mind?

What if you’re engaged? Of course every now and then you’re going to think about what your wedding night will be like.

You shouldn’t think about it all the time, but it seems pretty natural to me.
As I mentioned above…there is a difference between some thought …some temptation that comes out of the blue…and our consenting to sin.

All sorts of thoughts could “cross ones mind” out of the blue…even at the oddest times. But such need not become any sin…(see my long post on thoughts) (And there can even be good reasons for certain thoughts of a sexual nature for example when one studies sexual morality–taking the needed care to make the occasion remote etc…)

Now I imagine there can be good thoughts like (in a chaste way) “I look forward to being married in 2 months” “lets see I am going to buy these flowers for the wedding night…”…

But one needs to mortify and discipline ones imagination…etc. Not consent to certain thoughts that may come that are contrary to chastity or modesty.

A good line from Catechism:

2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.
 
I’m aware that as humans we have a natural desire to have sex every now and then, but that would not be lust if you do not entertain the idea. However, if you think of someone having sex with you or if you say to your lover that you want to have sex with him/her but without genuinely lusting, is that a mortal sin?
Regarding the title question:
I have never heard a good, logically consistent answer to what separates healthy (from a Catholic theological perspective) sexual desire from lust.
 
Here is a good example of lust and how it can destroy:

The account is grisly, but it offers an insight into the all consuming, self-destructive nature of lust. "First, the Eskimo coats his knife blade with animal blood and allows it to freeze. Then he adds another layer of blood, and another, until the blade is completely concealed by frozen blood.
Next, the hunter fixes his knife in the ground with the blade up. When a wolf follows his sensitive nose to the source of the scent and discovers the bait, he licks it, tasting the fresh frozen blood. He begins to lick faster, more and more vigorously, lapping the blade until the keen edge is bare. Feverishly now, harder and harder the wolf licks the blade in the arctic night.

So great becomes his craving for blood that the wolf does not notice the razor-sharp sting of the naked blade on his own tongue, nor does he recognize the instant at which his insatiable thirst is being satisfied by his OWN warm blood. His carnivorous appetite just craves more—until the dawn finds him dead in the snow!"

This is what happens to us when we give in to lust. An account I read - “It began with stuff I read in books,”. “The descriptions of sexual encounters would arouse me and I would masturbate. Then I began spinning my own fantasies, each one wilder than the one before. Soon, this wasn’t enough and I wanted the real thing. I got into one relationship, then another, and another. None meant anything beyond the sexual acts, which grew increasingly perverted and warped. I began despising myself and my partner and the sex began to reflect that, getting cruel and degrading. It makes me feel sick, but I couldn’t stop. I felt like I was dying inside …” He was dying, like the wolf, a victim of his own lustful appetite.

Lust isn’t just confined to sex - Its food , drugs , alcohol and so on.
 
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