What is the difference between Southern Baptists and Non-Denominational christians?

[Cat]

Emerging church?

That’s interesting. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting you, but it sounds like you are saying that the emerging churches are into Luther and Calvin.

The emerging churches that I have seen lean more towards Catholicism and traditional Catholic practices rather than away from Catholicism.

The emerging churches in our city do lectio divina, Latin, chant (Gregorian and other), candles, confession, and silence. They also encourage their members to do a lot of reading of the Early Church Fathers and the saints.

In fact, other evangelical Protestant churches in the city “protest” these emerging churches, and “warn” Christians that they can be put on the “road to Rome” if they attend emerging churches and immerse themselves in the “Catholic” practices.

I certainly think that’s possible, but I also think that a lot of the emerging church attendees are just as likely to walk away from Christianity and head off towards New Age groups and practices; e.g., labyrinth walking, crystals, dianetics, Reiki, different yoga philosophies, meditation, white magic, Eastern religions, various occult practices (spiritualism, soul travel, magik, etc.).

TimothyH states that this group of Christians is an “enigma” to him. I think that they are merely seeking “experiences” rather than God. Hopefully in their quest, many of these “experience-centered” people will find God.

It seems to me (JMO) that some Catholics are the same way–experience seekers. They aren’t content with settling into their local parish, attending the Masses, and contributing their time, talents, and monies to the parish (see I Thessalonians 4:11). Instead, they seek out more “Catholic” parishes, and are constantly finding fault with priests, Masses, music, etc, as they search for the “truest” manifestation of the true Church! They also can’t seem to find solace and edification in most Masses, always finding fault, and always searching and seeking better music, better homilies, a more flawless liturgy, more modesty, more silence, more tradition–more more more, and always “experience-centered.”

Yes, of course we should always want to deepen our relationship with Jesus. But IMHO, this is not accomplished through externals as much as through developing an interior life–a silence of the heart and a correctness of the soul. This interior life will remain steadfast no matter what is happening outside.

I think that we Catholics need to be careful not to get caught up in the “experience” of Catholicism, which is certainly rich and beautiful. Instead, we need to keep ourselves centered on Christ and His Church.

As for what this has to do with the topic–a LOT of Protestant Christians have left denominations because of a lack of “experiences.” Therefore a lot of the denominations are responding by becoming more “experience-centered.” Back when we left the Protestant church, our church was offering “Taize” services, which is, of course, a throwback to more traditional churches. But many are also doing the “Catholic” practices that I listed above. And also, as you point out, they are abandoning the denomination in their church name.

 

[asd72]

I thought he said they were into Calvin and Luther as much as the Holy Father, which I took to mean, not into them at all.

It can be quite confusing out there anyway in my experience!

 

[ltwin]

That’s interesting. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting you, but it sounds like you are saying that the emerging churches are into Luther and Calvin.

The emerging churches that I have seen lean more towards Catholicism and traditional Catholic practices rather than away from Catholicism.

The emerging churches in our city do lectio divina, Latin, chant (Gregorian and other), candles, confession, and silence. They also encourage their members to do a lot of reading of the Early Church Fathers and the saints.

In fact, other evangelical Protestant churches in the city “protest” these emerging churches, and “warn” Christians that they can be put on the “road to Rome” if they attend emerging churches and immerse themselves in the “Catholic” practices.

I certainly think that’s possible, but I also think that a lot of the emerging church attendees are just as likely to walk away from Christianity and head off towards New Age groups and practices; e.g., labyrinth walking, crystals, dianetics, Reiki, different yoga philosophies, meditation, white magic, Eastern religions, various occult practices (spiritualism, soul travel, magik, etc.).

TimothyH states that this group of Christians is an “enigma” to him. I think that they are merely seeking “experiences” rather than God. Hopefully in their quest, many of these “experience-centered” people will find God.

It seems to me (JMO) that some Catholics are the same way–experience seekers. They aren’t content with settling into their local parish, attending the Masses, and contributing their time, talents, and monies to the parish (see I Thessalonians 4:11). Instead, they seek out more “Catholic” parishes, and are constantly finding fault with priests, Masses, music, etc, as they search for the “truest” manifestation of the true Church! They also can’t seem to find solace and edification in most Masses, always finding fault, and always searching and seeking better music, better homilies, a more flawless liturgy, more modesty, more silence, more tradition–more more more, and always “experience-centered.”

Yes, of course we should always want to deepen our relationship with Jesus. But IMHO, this is not accomplished through externals as much as through developing an interior life–a silence of the heart and a correctness of the soul. This interior life will remain steadfast no matter what is happening outside.

I think that we Catholics need to be careful not to get caught up in the “experience” of Catholicism, which is certainly rich and beautiful. Instead, we need to keep ourselves centered on Christ and His Church.

As for what this has to do with the topic–a LOT of Protestant Christians have left denominations because of a lack of “experiences.” Therefore a lot of the denominations are responding by becoming more “experience-centered.” Back when we left the Protestant church, our church was offering “Taize” services, which is, of course, a throwback to more traditional churches. But many are also doing the “Catholic” practices that I listed above. And also, as you point out, they are abandoning the denomination in their church name.

I think there definitely is truth to what you say about the emerging church. I do have concerns about what I see as a lack of commitment to firm theological principles. To me the emerging church has too much potential to morph into a hipper form of mainline Protestantism and all the rot and degradation that comes with it. It seems that for many segments of the emerging church it has already happened.

 

[andrewstx]

You lost me at the “Boy meets girl” part .

I just wish churches were a little more honest about what kind of church they are you know? For example there is a common trend right now with churches that are part of denominations like Baptists or Pentecostals intentionally trying to ignore or hide their denominational affiliation. I know of both Baptist and Pentecostal churches where maybe half or more of the members do not even know that the church they go to is part of a particular denomination. It’s not mentioned in the church’s name or in the printed material, and the teaching and preaching gives no indication of where the minister is coming from theologically.

I agree. I know personally of churches that call them selves “non-denominational” that are really Southern Bapist and Assembly of God.

I get the feeling that calling yourself non-denominational is a fad, or trend amoung Evangelicals, like the “rapture”, and groups that bring the church into the world rather than the other way around. People esp young people don’t like religious tradition so they make their churches more secular with rock music and theater style buildings, video screens theater and the like.

 

[ltwin]

I agree. I know personally of churches that call them selves “non-denominational” that are really Southern Bapist and Assembly of God.

Agree. The odd thing is that both those denominations are congregational. If the Baptist church or AG church no longer wants to be Baptist or AG, they can vote to leave. However, I guess its easier to stay and pretend.

I get the feeling that calling yourself non-denominational is a fad, or trend amoung Evangelicals, like the “rapture”, and groups that bring the church into the world rather than the other way around. People esp young people don’t like religious tradition so they make their churches more secular with rock music and theater style buildings, video screens theater and the like.

I don’t have a problem with all that. You can have plain, simple, and ugly church architecture all you want. You can sing Christian rock songs all you want. However, I would ask that all of it makes sense as part of a larger, thoughtful theological perspective. There is so much shallowness in what passes for worship and teaching in the church world today.

 

[LetsTalk237]

You lost me at the “Boy meets girl” part .

Well I think it is part of a series that they are doing. I must of went when they were in the middle of the series. But the message they were trying to get out was “Pulling Together or Drifting Apart.” Basically they were just talking about relationships using some chapters and verses from Genesis.

I get the feeling that calling yourself non-denominational is a fad, or trend amoung Evangelicals, like the “rapture”, and groups that bring the church into the world rather than the other way around. People esp young people don’t like religious tradition so they make their churches more secular with rock music and theater style buildings, video screens theater and the like.

I agree with this. The non-denominational church looked like a modern day convention center but smaller. Inside the building looked plain and where they ended up gathering seemed like they were preparing for a rock concert. (Which in my case, I was right because they were singing for a very long time.)

 

[CopticChristian]

Besides difference in name, is there anything different about these two denominations like ideas, practices, etc.?

My friend who is a Southern Baptist likes to go to a Non-denominational church and I asked him if he found any difference between them and his reply was, “not really.” Although the people who started this non-denominational church were formerly Southern Baptists.

Lets,

Baptists have lost members and as a result have changed their name to make it more attractive to join. Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, is a Baptist Church…this is a trend in the Baptist circle and if you search this you will discover what I say is true…many of the Non-denoms are Baptists not calling themselves Baptists…the game is the same and the names change.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Besides difference in name, is there anything different about these two denominations like ideas, practices, etc.?

My friend who is a Southern Baptist likes to go to a Non-denominational church and I asked him if he found any difference between them and his reply was, “not really.” Although the people who started this non-denominational church were formerly Southern Baptists.

It really all depends.
First, it’s important to note the following:

Baptist denominations, Pentecostals, and non-denominational churches all fall under the umbrella term ‘Evangelical.’ These Christians essentially are united in terms of their form of worship, rejection of sacraments (except for Baptism and Holy Communion, known as ‘ordinances’), and attachment to the Bible.

Baptists and non-denominational are very similar, but it also depends on the church in question. Baptists are part of formal denominations, with a structured governance and established doctrines. Baptists are generally cessationists with regards to the gifts of the Holy Spirit (tongues), and are Calvinists (mostly).

Non-denominational churches don’t have such formalized doctrines. They will generally share many (if not most) of the doctrines that Baptists hold to, but it could change from church to church. This one church I used to attend (before I quit Evangelicalism) freely allowed Christians to use to tongues, as the pastor himself believed in them.

Another church I used to attend was against it. The pastor was uncomfortable with it as were most of the congregants. It really depends.

 

[Calgar]

Besides difference in name, is there anything different about these two denominations like ideas, practices, etc.?

sbc.net/bfm/default.asp

This is our faith message and should help you compare it to any other donominations you run across.

My friend who is a Southern Baptist likes to go to a Non-denominational church and I asked him if he found any difference between them and his reply was, “not really.” Although the people who started this non-denominational church were formerly Southern Baptists.

You’ll find southern baptists all over the map on the denomination thing. We believe that the Church is made up of all Christians, not just one certain denomination (Yes, Roman Catholics too).

Tell your friend to be wary of “non-denominational” churches, as they often don’t have as stringent a criteria for who can minister (Joe off the street can start up a non-denominational church) as organized denominations do.

 

[yellowantphil]

Another type of church I don’t get is the non-denominational charismatic churches. So many times I encounter churches that claim to be “charismatic” churches but I never see any prayer for healings or speaking in tongues, or prophecy, or anything that you think of when you intentionally use the label “charismatic” to define yourself. But all I see from these churches is ordinary, generic evangelicalism with contemporary praise bands and some hand waving. How is that charismatic?

I went to a church like this before I was a Catholic. Nothing “charismatic” ever happened during the church services, but they taught that the miraculous gifts of the Spirit were still in use today, and many of the church members prayed in tongues in private prayer and group prayers outside the church service. They emphasized the importance of being “baptized in the Holy Spirit,” and the usual result of that baptism was that a person would speak in tongues for the first time. They fell short of saying it was required for salvation, but it was strongly encouraged.

This church was part of the Every Nation family of churches, which is like a denomination, but they don’t want to be called that.

 

[Cat]

I think we have to be careful not to criticize the appearance of non-Catholic church worship centers.

My husband and I were evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of our lives. We never saw our plain, unadorned church buildings and sanctuaries (the nave is called the sanctuary in evangelical churches) as ugly, mainly because we didn’t equate “plain” or “unadorned” with “ugly.”

To us, the very plainness was a worship aid, because we were able to concentrate entirely on Jesus Christ and not on external appearances. Any place is beautiful when Jesus is there. He makes the plainest house lovely.

Also, a plain, unadorned decor appeared calm and peaceful to us. It reminded us that God is a God of order, and that we don’t have to worry, because He is in charge and has everything under control.

To this day, even after 8 years of being Catholic and loving it, I still prefer a plainer interior. I am thankful that my parish was built in the 1970s, and has a very plain interior with only a few pieces of statuary (The Holy Family, and a life-sized Crucifix, both beautiful). I always have a sense of peace when I enter our nave.

Someone said above that some worship centers look like convention centers. There are practical reasons for that. First, many of these fellowships attract thousands of people to their worship services, and there has to be seating for all these people, along with smaller rooms for conducting teaching sessions and workshops throughout the week.

There has to be separate classrooms for teaching the children and teenagers, as in many evangelical churches, there are large Sunday schools.

Also, in many evangelical churches, the babies and young children do not attend the worship service with their parents, so good nurseries for babies and younger children are required.

Many modern evangelical churches do a lot of fellowship through a coffee-house approach, and so there has to be an area where people can sit and drink coffee while listening to speakers and viewing videos (just like at a real convention!). Some modern megachurches do Sunday worship this way; the congregation has the option of sitting at tables and drinking/eating while listening to the music and speakers.

Always keep in mind that the central focus of an evangelical Protestant worship service is Jesus Christ revealed in the Word of God, the Bible. The main methods for communicating the Word of God are music and preaching/teaching. A good sound system is a necessity, because there is no liturgy and very few memorized responses. The congregation has to be able to HEAR the message through song and speaking. So many Protestant churches are designed to facilitate hearing, and that means “convention center”.

There are times that I wish that many Catholic churches had better sounds systems. Some of the older Catholic buildings are designed beautifully with great acoustics. But many are not so well-designed, and the music and spoken words are very difficult to hear, even if mikes are used. Of course, this isn’t so vital in the Catholic Mass, as the parishioners know the liturgy and can worship without hearing every word.

I realize that a lot of Catholics prefer a more ornate church building, and that’s OK. I now enjoy visiting parishes that have a lot of artwork, statuary, and more European decor. But everyone will have different preferences, and there is really nothing wrong with preferring a simpler, more modern decor in a church building.

 

[robwar]

Lets,

Baptists have lost members and as a result have changed their name to make it more attractive to join. Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, is a Baptist Church…this is a trend in the Baptist circle and if you search this you will discover what I say is true…many of the Non-denoms are Baptists not calling themselves Baptists…the game is the same and the names change.

agree but Southern Baptists is a denomination organization. Baptist Churches run the gamut just as so called non-denomination churches do. Most follow some kind of Anabaptist theology, Bible along/ sola Scripture theology thinking that they are just like the original 1st century Christians. However we know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by Christ.

 

[Bookcat]

Accent?

(hee hee)

 

[FabiusMaximus]

You lost me at the “Boy meets girl” part .

I just wish churches were a little more honest about what kind of church they are you know? For example there is a common trend right now with churches that are part of denominations like Baptists or Pentecostals intentionally trying to ignore or hide their denominational affiliation. I know of both Baptist and Pentecostal churches where maybe half or more of the members do not even know that the church they go to is part of a particular denomination. It’s not mentioned in the church’s name or in the printed material, and the teaching and preaching gives no indication of where the minister is coming from theologically.

I think part of the issue with regards to Pentecostal churches “hiding” their denominations is in part embarrassment over who they are.

At least here in New England, Pentecostalism often gets a nasty (horribly unjustified) reputation. Some have accused Pentecostals of being “snake-dancers” (absolutely absurd), of being “crazy” with their tongues (which in all my years I have not witnessed!), and sometimes even other Christians don’t like Pentecostals. It’s not nice to hear from some cessationists that Pentecostals are demon-possessed for believing in the charismatic gifts. It’s not too often, but I’ve heard it. And it has infuriated me. You know I no longer really identify with Pentecostalism because I am evolving theologically, but it’s still a part of my past, something to which my parents proudly cling to. And it annoys me on a personal level to hear some of that stuff.

But I think the result is that Pentecostals will become more reluctant to reveal what they really believe, and pass themselves off to newcomers as simply “Evangelicals” or “Bible-believers.” Part of the issue I also think is that many confuse mainstream Pentecostals, such as from the Assemblies of God and Church of God with the radical Oneness, from the United Pentecostal Church and other such groups. They have, unfortunately, been successful in usurping the title of Pentecostals for themselves alone.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I think we have to be careful not to criticize the appearance of non-Catholic church worship centers.

My husband and I were evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of our lives. We never saw our plain, unadorned church buildings and sanctuaries (the nave is called the sanctuary in evangelical churches) as ugly, mainly because we didn’t equate “plain” or “unadorned” with “ugly.”

To us, the very plainness was a worship aid, because we were able to concentrate entirely on Jesus Christ and not on external appearances. Any place is beautiful when Jesus is there. He makes the plainest house lovely.

Also, a plain, unadorned decor appeared calm and peaceful to us. It reminded us that God is a God of order, and that we don’t have to worry, because He is in charge and has everything under control.

I was raised in that environment as well so I can see where you’re coming from. And I understand the reasoning behind the “plainless” of it all. It harkens back to the Reformation, when it was believed that Catholic ornateness and decorations was actually a distraction to true worship and leads to idolatry. The plain church was supposed to help focus on Jesus Christ, and him alone (which, in a historical sense, can help explain why Evangelical churches are so ‘Jesus-centered’ for lack of a better term).

However, personally, I am more attracted to the heavily-decorated style of the traditional Catholic (and Orthodox) churches. I have a particular soft-spot for Baroque style. I think the beauty of it all keeps me in humble awe of God’s magnificence. But this is of course, all a personal matter.

 

[Calgar]

I was raised in that environment as well so I can see where you’re coming from. And I understand the reasoning behind the “plainless” of it all. It harkens back to the Reformation, when it was believed that Catholic ornateness and decorations was actually a distraction to true worship and leads to idolatry. The plain church was supposed to help focus on Jesus Christ, and him alone (which, in a historical sense, can help explain why Evangelical churches are so ‘Jesus-centered’ for lack of a better term).

However, personally, I am more attracted to the heavily-decorated style of the traditional Catholic (and Orthodox) churches. I have a particular soft-spot for Baroque style. I think the beauty of it all keeps me in humble awe of God’s magnificence. But this is of course, all a personal matter.

We should also remember how blessed we are to have places dedicated to worship. There are many brothers and sisters in places where worship occurs in living rooms and basements.

 

[psr13]

You probably know more than I about this but one obvervation I have made is about Baptism. When a cradle Catholic joins a Baptist, he is usually re-baptized since they don’t believe in infant Baptism. When a Catholic joins a non-denominational church, he is expected to answer an altar call and indentify the moment he was saved, but not necessarily to be re-baptized.

All of the non-denominational churches and people I know would require a new baptism. Infant baptism to them means nothing but sprinkling with some water.

 

[psr13]

Lets,

Baptists have lost members and as a result have changed their name to make it more attractive to join. Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, is a Baptist Church…this is a trend in the Baptist circle and if you search this you will discover what I say is true…many of the Non-denoms are Baptists not calling themselves Baptists…the game is the same and the names change.

This is very true. “Community Church” out here tends to mean “Baptist Church but we don’t want to call ourselves that.”

 

[ltwin]

I think part of the issue with regards to Pentecostal churches “hiding” their denominations is in part embarrassment over who they are.

At least here in New England, Pentecostalism often gets a nasty (horribly unjustified) reputation. Some have accused Pentecostals of being “snake-dancers” (absolutely absurd), of being “crazy” with their tongues (which in all my years I have not witnessed!), and sometimes even other Christians don’t like Pentecostals. It’s not nice to hear from some cessationists that Pentecostals are demon-possessed for believing in the charismatic gifts. It’s not too often, but I’ve heard it. And it has infuriated me. You know I no longer really identify with Pentecostalism because I am evolving theologically, but it’s still a part of my past, something to which my parents proudly cling to. And it annoys me on a personal level to hear some of that stuff.

But I think the result is that Pentecostals will become more reluctant to reveal what they really believe, and pass themselves off to newcomers as simply “Evangelicals” or “Bible-believers.” Part of the issue I also think is that many confuse mainstream Pentecostals, such as from the Assemblies of God and Church of God with the radical Oneness, from the United Pentecostal Church and other such groups. They have, unfortunately, been successful in usurping the title of Pentecostals for themselves alone.

I understand why Pentecostals would want to downplay their Pentecostalism. I’ve been embarrassed by things that I’ve seen in my church, even though when the Spirit comes upon me I might do the very same thing and not feel anything but thankfulness to God. However, when I see other people do it, I get self-conscious especially if we have visitors. I also realize that alot of Pentecostals were born into the Pentecostal church and agree with its evangelical doctrine, but hasn’t necessarily received the Pentecostal experience and they don’t want the Pentecostal experience in their church to be honest.

What I don’t get are charismatic (as in non-Pentecostal) evangelical churches, which did not inherit a Pentecostal tradition but purposely claimed the identity of charismatic for themselves. I don’t get why they insist on being labeled charismatic when they are no different from the non-charismatic evangelical church down the street. You aren’t bound by doctrinal or organizational or historical ties to Pentecostalism. You are free to choose any evangelical label to describe yourself, yet you choose to be labeled charismatic. It’s pretty hard to be charismatic when there is a serious lack of the charismata.

It’s sort of like the whole “Community Church” label. We’re really Baptists, but we don’t wont anyone to know it.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

We should also remember how blessed we are to have places dedicated to worship. There are many brothers and sisters in places where worship occurs in living rooms and basements.

May the Lord continue to bless them and protect them.

What I don’t get are charismatic (as in non-Pentecostal) evangelical churches, which did not inherit a Pentecostal tradition but purposely claimed the identity of charismatic for themselves. I don’t get why they insist on being labeled charismatic when they are no different from the non-charismatic evangelical church down the street. You aren’t bound by doctrinal or organizational or historical ties to Pentecostalism. You are free to choose any evangelical label to describe yourself, yet you choose to be labeled charismatic. It’s pretty hard to be charismatic when there is a serious lack of the charismata.

It’s sort of like the whole “Community Church” label. We’re really Baptists, but we don’t wont anyone to know it.

Well many consider ‘charismatic’ to also include prophecy and healing, and not to necessarily include tongues. I see your point fully.

I do think that part of it is the labeling. A church needs to attract sheep, and a good name or label might encourage people to join.

I’ve heard of a church nearby where the pastor calls himself a bishop. I don’t know why he styles himself a bishop. But that’s what he calls himself. But he can technically do it.