What is the difference in Protestants being "saved" and Catholic salvation?

[benhur]

Catholics are born again, have the Holy Spirit and have faith. Period! And yes it matters who you listen to. I see you listen to Jesse Duplantis. Explains a lot to me! You would rather listen to charlatans than Jesus.

Never heard of him before so you peeked my interest. If anyone cares here is part of his testimony. Do not know anything else about him.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVj9_IdlVbO8AblQPxQt.;_ylc=X1MDMjExNDcwMDU1OQRfcgMyBGZyA3locy1hZGstYWRrX3NibnQEZ3ByaWQDMkh6NU5HSHJUNENJaEx1XzkyQkI3QQRuX3JzbHQDMARuX3N1Z2cDNQRvcmlnaW4Dc2VhcmNoLnlhaG9vLmNvbQRwb3MDMgRwcXN0cgNqZXNzZSBkdXBsYW50aXMgdGVzdGltb2lueQRwcXN0cmwDMjYEcXN0cmwDMjUEcXVlcnkDamVzc2UgZHVwbGFudGlzIHRlc3RpbW9ueQR0X3N0bXADMTQ0MDI5MzI1MA–?p=jesse+duplantis+testimony&fr2=sa-gp-search&hspart=adk&hsimp=yhs-adk_sbnt&param1=20150817&param2=9b3242f1-a036-484f-a2b2-0f470ad25b8b&param3=email_xp_0.0.4~US~&param4=pd_gs_email_gmail_b~Firefox&type=_aff_0_em_ff

 

[benhur]

Didn’t realize the poor man is a troll. I suggest we pray for him to see the error of his ways!

Amen (if it be so that he went south/strayed a bit).

 

[benhur]

About born again…alot of people, baptized, go to Church as Catholics, don’t have this intense emotional experience, but have realizations happening to them from time to time…think of the Carmelites at present…

I do tend to see born again more as emotional than anything…unless the person was pretty bad and then had this miraculous conversion…they are really wonderful to listen to …

Listen to the site I posted, #122, on his conversion. Actually he states that the new birth is not based on emotions or feelings but on the Word of God. Having said that, emotions are ok especially if they are based on real God induced realities. I mean having the scales removed from your eyes and seeing for the first time is a reality. I would think it natural that the real event would come with feelings and emotions. But I understand some are more dramatic than others. I would also say it is ok to check on oneself if they do not sense they have a testimony, a before and after. You certainly seem to say you have a before and after, but do not want to asses it anymore than what you say it was. It is kind of sacred ground, yours. I would hope all our convinced in themselves and are not afraid of looking at others fire for checking on our own fire or rebirth reality.

Thanks, Ben Hur…now you can may be understand why I am slowing down,…still working…hurt my back first time all these years…grandson contributed…but still working…know how to get around things.

Sorry to hear that but apparently His grace is sufficient , yet Lord help you heal. Hey, we peaked at 30 years old, physically that is. Not easy to face our physical destiny. Part of me is starting to say we are closing in on the finish line yet another hopes it will be ok for a good chunk of time.

Those Catholics who left…could have been reacting to the impersonal bureaucratic ways that have been incorporated in Western Catholic churches that we all complain about but nothing happens to correct it.

There are many possibilities.The more I think about it maybe you have a point. It fits what I said about a personal encounter with the Savior. Yet, I will not deny the doctrinal/practice issues that may facilitate the "impersonal, bucreautic ways’’.

Thank you for not taking offense in bringing the topic up (Catholics going Protestant) Certainly as JMM posted (#112), a bit defensively I think, it goes both ways . I think you see that is not my point.

I think we should start home churches…do our adult ed there within an ongoing fraternity…where people really become closer…satellites of our parish…and then become evangelical…in works of mercy…home churches would make the personal come back.

We have same problem with "mega churches’. Some do exactly what you suggest, home churches or satellites.The earliest church did it.

Pope Benedict was saying that the words we have used before have no meaning now…we have to find a new vocabulary as well…

Not sure on this one. Listen to that testimony and his words seemed genuine and were the old true and steady words. So on one hand we preach Christ crucified, and yet Paul adapted to what was around him with his preaching at Mar’s Hill. “I become all things to all men so that some might be saved”.Hopefully that is what Pope meant.

But yes…to be Catholic…and by pass all its scandal…one needs grace to make a separate act of faith to believe

At least you are humble enough to admit it and not just "defend’’ . We all have glass house churches (good, bad and ugly being visible). Thankfully, a Christian in the end (and beginning), ultimately follows Christ. God is true.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

Weeeeeeeeeell I’m convinced. You gotta a way with words there Alvin 'ole buddy.
Tell me little buddy, does the Holy Spirit direct you to lie repeatedly to get on a forum…what is it now? 30 different times? Does the Holy Spirit use deception?
Please come back and tell us, because…well you know us silly Catholics, not having the spirit and all…we need your way with words to enlighten us.

ten foot pole anyone ?

Blessings JS

 

[JustaServant]

ten foot pole anyone ?

Blessings JS

 

[Porknpie]

That is NOT what I’m suggesting. The question is about salvation, not everything after that. What needs to be done to be saved is spelled out for you in Rm.10:10. "For with the heart man believes unto righteousness ; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. "
That is perfectly plain and clear to me .

Eazy- do you believe that we Christians must keep the commandments to be saved?

 

[eazyduzit]

Eazy- do you believe that we Christians must keep the commandments to be saved?

No,it is the Jews who must keep the law to be saved. However, the Bible also says the law brought death and not life. Trying to keep the law is the opposite of faith.

 

[Elizium23]

No,it is the Jews who must keep the law to be saved. However, the Bible also says the law brought death and not life. Trying to keep the law is the opposite of faith.

But Romans 7:12.

Are you really saying that commandments such as “Thou shalt not kill” need not be kept for one who is saved?

 

[Porknpie]

No,it is the Jews who must keep the law to be saved. However, the Bible also says the law brought death and not life. Trying to keep the law is the opposite of faith.

EZ -

True this: keeping the Jews were bound by keeping the Mosaic law. However, the 10 commandments are part of the natural law. We are all bound by the natural law.

More here:

When Christ says one must keep the Commandments to enter life, he is speaking to all humanity, Jews and Christians included.

16 Then someone came to him and said, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Ought we not to take Christ at his Word?

 

[Porknpie]

No,it is the Jews who must keep the law to be saved. However, the Bible also says the law brought death and not life. Trying to keep the law is the opposite of faith.

EZ -

Also, the Parable of the Vine.

All those who are part of the vine, the branches are Christians. They are believers.

There are believers then that can be cutoff, through their own disobedience and pride.

They are are to be rounded up and bundled.

And thrown into the fire.

The parable shows, explicitly so, that salvation, while a free gift, can be returned and rejected.

Hence, we run the race as St. Paul says. We persevere. We have hopeful confidence, but not false assurance in our salvation. God is our judge. But as Catholics we have assurance of our salvation but not infallibly so by staying close to Christ, his Church and the Sacraments. They are the means that Christ gave us to give us grace, in order to finish the race.

 

[zz912]

No,it is the Jews who must keep the law to be saved. However, the Bible also says the law brought death and not life. Trying to keep the law is the opposite of faith.

1. Can those who do not love Jesus be saved?
2. How do you love Jesus?

 

[zz912]

That is NOT what I’m suggesting. The question is about salvation, not everything after that. What needs to be done to be saved is spelled out for you in Rm.10:10. "For with the heart man believes unto righteousness ; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. "
That is perfectly plain and clear to me .

Is that the only thing one must do to be saved?

When Jesus comes to bring judgment upon us, according to what will He judge us?

 

[Michael68]

No,it is the Jews who must keep the law to be saved. However, the Bible also says the law brought death and not life. Trying to keep the law is the opposite of faith.

So, you don’t believe Our Lord Jesus when he said, “Love God with all your heart and Love your neighor as you Love yourself”? This is the ten commandments

 

[zz912]

Originally Posted by zz912 View Post
Could you provide a citation of the book, chapter and verse in the Bible where it claims to be the sole rule of faith?

Here is the one I use all the time (and there are others too):
Acts 17:11
Paul states in Acts 17-11 (among others)

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

In other words, receive the word with all readiness of mind, but do not believe what ( … fill in any name / denomination) and search the scriptures daily whether the things you are told are true”. For any religious doctrine or tradition that is taught there must be a biblical basis for that doctrine or belief as the Bible is the inerrant word of God perfect in its original text. God is the highest authority. For those who teach false doctrines, God will hold you in higher accountability than others.

Actually, your example proves my point, and disproves yours. The Bereans received the teaching of Paul, something NOT in Scripture. And they accepted it. They went back and read the OT Scriptures to understand better his citations of prophesies fulfilled by Jesus. But they received something NOT in Scripture.

What OT Scriptures did they read that validated Jesus’ teachings on divorce? Because the OT Scriptures said the opposite. Jesus gave a NEW teaching. What about the Beatitudes? The OT law was an eye for an eye. Jesus said something different. What about the NEW teaching of the Last Supper? Where in the OT Scriptures does it say we should end the Passover meal?

So the OT Scriptures could NOT have been claiming to be the sole rule of faith, as Paul’s teaching is authoritative.

So your citation does not substantiate your claim. Do you have any other citations for the Bible claiming to be the sole rule of faith? And could you also list out the chapter and verse where the table of contents for the Bible are given?

 

[zz912]

Wow, there you go again referencing the ultimate emphasis, the right building. I referenced* emphasis* on meeting the living ChristOf course they have commonality, just disagree with the CC being emphatical about the former.
Again, is that the only way to define or judge a church by ? It certainly seems cold and legalistic to describe meeting and knowing the living Christ* only* in doctrinal terms.

You brought up the front door example. I pointed out that many Christians don’t share the same faith (i.e. building). It matters which “door” you bring them to. Or are you ok with someone bringing another person to the “door” of the Catholics? Will they be saved there? If yes, then why haven’t you come to that “door” as well, since salvation is inside?

What about if they brought them to the “door” of the Mormons? Is that acceptable?

Yes P’s go to far in allowing diversity but C’s go to far in defining too much. Both extremes loose universality. But same thing happened in OT. It is ok. It is part of our proper legacy, the* belief in absolute truth* on everything , and every jot and tittle. it takes God’s wisdom to balance it all. I mean shall we quibble on how to genuflect and make the sign of the cross, or to have pictures on the wall, or the Lord on the cross statue, or the date of Easter celebration, or is justification and sanctification the same thing, etc., etc., etc. ?

We aren’t quibbling over how to make the sign of the cross. We’re talking about salvation, and how one can receive it. It’s not quibbling.

Are you sure about that on AoG ? I mean one in California was identical to one in NY in my experience. How many Lutheran branches are their, two three , do not know ?The point is that with in each one they are unified.

If they were unified, they wouldn’t be two-three branches. If their differences were minor or insignificant, they wouldn’t have split.

Agree, that is why I feel it is wrong to put too much weight in judging what is a church of Christ by that standard, for we are all still one Body somehow and it certainly isn’t defined by totally denominations. I guarantee you will see no persons in heaven parading around as P’s, or O’s, or Baptists, or Lutherans but as souls who have been washed by the blood of the Lamb.I will leave that up to you to say whether C’s will be parading around as C’s.

We follow Him who IS Truth. So any doctrines about Him are important. You cannot meet Christ or receive Him without doctrine. You simply can’t and any claim otherwise is false. You can’t receive Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior without the doctrine of Jesus IS God, or the doctrine that Jesus is Lord, or the doctrine that His sacrifice on the cross forgives our sins. You cannot have a relationship with Jesus without doctrine.

So having the right doctrine is PRIMARY to having a true and proper relationship with Jesus. If you don’t understand Jesus properly, you can’t have a proper relationship with Him.

And everyone in Heaven will Catholic.

 

[PJM]

=rnmvrck;13216127]Jesus work was finished on the cross. After His resurrection, it was up to each person eo accept His free gift of salvation.

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
John 17:4 “I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

NO friend, it was not. In FACT it was the beginning; not the end.

If as you were taught in error that “It was finished:; why “the Church?” & Why the bible?”

Mt. 28:16-20
"And the eleven disciples {remaining Apostles after Judas hung himself} went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and o f the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.

And why does Jesus teach this"

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mark 8:34
And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me

Luke 9:23
And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luke 14:27
And whosoever doth not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

The Holy Spirir has led to the CAF Forum; so that you MIGHT discover His Truth.

The Bible is a Catholic Book

Alway’s without exception God has has just One chosen people in the OT & One Church in the NT

With just One set of Faith beliefs

Taught in the FULLNESS of God;s truth; through the Catholic Church and yes it is biblically and historically provable

God Bless you; and PRAY much!

Patrick.

 

[PJM]

Post by Porknpie:

Eazy- do you believe that we Christians must keep the commandments to be saved?

=eazyduzit;13220198]No,it is the Jews who must keep the law to be saved. However, the Bible also says the law brought death and not life. Trying to keep the law is the opposite of faith.

My friend "the law you speak of is the 613 ADDITIONS to the 10 Commandments; which by the way are 10 categories of sin; NOT the list of all possible sin

Mt. 19:16-17
[16] And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? [17] Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So dear friend:

Is the bible wrong?

Or perhaps Jesus mis-spoke?

Or MAYBE you have received incorrect instruction:shrug:

Pray about it,

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[In_His_Grace]

If Catholics are Christians what are the steps they take to receive salvation?
Protestants believe Romans 10:9 & 10. Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and you shall be saved.

All Christians are saved the same way (John 3:16), both Catholic Christians and non-Catholic Christians.

 

[Michael68]

There is a very scary doctrine that I have dubbed the “Do nothing theology”. It seems that this theology says Christ did it all and all I have to do is believe . Don’t give to the poor, don’t give water to the thirsty, don’t visit the widow or orphans. Just sit at home, read your bible and hide. I don’t accept this and neither should anyone else.

 

[In_His_Grace]

There is a very scary doctrine that I have dubbed the “Do nothing theology”.

Sounds like bad theology to me, not at all scriptural.

It seems that this theology says Christ did it all and all I have to do is believe.

Exactly!

Don’t give to the poor, don’t give water to the thirsty, don’t visit the widow or orphans. Just sit at home, read your bible and hide. I don’t accept this and neither should anyone else.

Agreed.