What is the difference in Protestants being "saved" and Catholic salvation?

[PJM]

=RyanBlack;13274564]The Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and a few others have all seven sacraments.

Indeed they do

BUT the point i was offering is the the FULLNESS of God’s Truth [graces included] are only through the One Chiurch; today’s CC which he desired to found and in fact did establish\sh.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=PRmerger;13269695]From Catholic apologist John Martignoni:

The fact that we believe, as Catholics, that salvation is a free gift from God and that we do absolutely nothing to merit this salvation, is nowhere better evidenced than in our practice of infant baptism. We believe that, through baptism, we receive salvation. The fact that infants can receive this gift of salvation through baptism is proof that we believe salvation is by God’s grace alone. An infant cannot perform works and cannot make a profession of faith. But, through the faith of the parents, the child, upon being baptized, receives salvation…he is saved.

Sorry, but this highly conditional example does not reflect the FACT that man alone in ALL of the Created Universe is given a mind, intellect, freewill which are permanently attached to our Souls; which like our God [Gen 1: 26-27] are Spiritual and Eternal realities; whose express purpose [Isaiah 43: 7 & 21] enables man to freely choose to love or to hate God; and thereby have an essential role in meriting one’s salvation:thumbsup:

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PRmerger]

Sorry, but this highly conditional example does not reflect the FACT that man alone in ALL of the Created Universe is given a mind, intellect, freewill which are permanently attached to our Souls; which like our God [Gen 1: 26-27] are Spiritual and Eternal realities; whose express purpose [Isaiah 43: 7 & 21] enables man to freely choose to love or to hate God; and thereby have an essential role in meriting one’s salvation:thumbsup:

God Bless you,

Patrick

I will no longer respond to your posts until you learn how to post correctly, PJM. You’ve been here long enough to know how to do this.

You need to keep the link to the original post so folks can click on it if necessary.

 

[JMM1957]

Sorry, but this highly conditional example does not reflect the FACT that man alone in ALL of the Created Universe is given a mind, intellect, freewill which are permanently attached to our Souls; which like our God [Gen 1: 26-27] are Spiritual and Eternal realities; whose express purpose [Isaiah 43: 7 & 21] enables man to freely choose to love or to hate God; and thereby have an essential role in meriting one’s salvation:thumbsup:

God Bless you,

Patrick

I think John Martignoni does make a good point in that infant baptism emphasizes being saved by infused grace, obviously the baby cannot do works. No question, there is a difference between a baby and a person of the age of reason, the latter must act on God’s gift of grace and make a freewill choice at some point to accept Jesus as their Savior.

 

[eazyduzit]

Sorry, but this highly conditional example does not reflect the FACT that man alone in ALL of the Created Universe is given a mind, intellect, freewill which are permanently attached to our Souls; which like our God [Gen 1: 26-27] are Spiritual and Eternal realities; whose express purpose [Isaiah 43: 7 & 21] enables man to freely choose to love or to hate God; and thereby have an essential role in meriting one’s salvation:thumbsup:

God Bless you,

Patrick

We have a different view of man’s ability. Do to the fall we acknowledge that man does not have the ability or the liberty to choose God.

This is why Jesus said in Jn 6:44, “No man CAN come to Me,except the Father. …draw him” .

Jesus did not say “may not” but rather “can not” meaning he is not able in himself to choose the good.

The “drawing power” of the Father is a prerequisite grace of salvation.

So the credit goes to God, not to man.

 

[PRmerger]

We have a different view of man’s ability. Do to the fall we acknowledge that man does not have the ability or the liberty to choose God.

This is why Jesus said in Jn 6:44, “No man CAN come to Me,except the Father. …draw him” .

Jesus did not say “may not” but rather “can not” meaning he is not able in himself to choose the good.

The “drawing power” of the Father is a prerequisite grace of salvation.

You are very Catholic when you say this, eazy!

 

[eazyduzit]

You are very Catholic when you say this, eazy!

True, it is reflected in Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas.

Cassian would agree with Patrick.

 

[PRmerger]

True, it is reflected in Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas.

Cassian would agree with Patrick.

Umm…the measure of what is Catholic is not what is “reflected in Augustine” et al.

Best to cite the “sure norm” for the faith–the Catechism.

Or encyclicals.

 

[In_His_Grace]

I just got caught up on this thread since the last time I posted and wanted to thank the Catholics who responded to me. Food for thought and much appreciated.

pax

 

[PJM]

=PRmerger;13273197]Salvation is a process. It begins at baptism. It ends when one is standing before the Eternal Godhead.

Take home points regarding our soteriology:

• no one knows if he is saved until he is dead. Period.

• Baptism saves us. Until we sin again.

• Infant baptism proves that Catholicism does not believe in works salvation.

Thanks, nicely done!

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=JMM1957;13273108]If you type in “catholicpamplets.net” into the address box at the top of your page, it will take you to their site, then just type in “life of grace” into that search box. There you will find the explanation that you are looking for. I’m sorry, I am not that great with computers yet (almost 60 yrs. old) and not sure of how to post links to make it easier. I’ll try to work on that!

Don’t give up on the computer I’m 71 and also struggle with it.

That said its each to post a site.

Just hold you mouse button down and hi light the site
then select “copy”

Then you will be able to just go to where you want to post it it and hit “paste”

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[JMM1957]

Don’t give up on the computer I’m 71 and also struggle with it.

That said its each to post a site.

Just hold you mouse button down and hi light the site
then select “copy”

Then you will be able to just go to where you want to post it it and hit “paste”

God Bless you,

Patrick

:thankyou:

 

[PJM]

=In His Grace;13273352]Yes, I understand. Also, people are so complicated, lives lived that are so complex, so many factors and variables involved in determining whether or not a person is culpable for the guilt of a mortal sin committed, by the person who committed the mortal or anyone else even the best of priest hearing confessions? Possibly, in the end this is something only God would know, the final Judge?

Blessings

Actually it’s not

For the sake of clarification

1 Has to be a serious matter if a group of 100 informed and practicing catholics were asked if “such and such” action would be a mortla sin, and over halg agree that it is; then VERY likely, it is

1. One gas to know that the act they they are considering IS a Mortal sin
2. The freely decide to do it anyway

IF in doubt ask your Priest Confessor, so the next time [Heaven FORBID that their is a next time], you’ll know for SURE if it is or isn’t.

God Bless you and Guide you’re path to His Singular truths!

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=JMM1957;13273854]If I may add to this, for non-Catholics and those who believe in OSAS, this explanation may seem complex and burdensome, but let me assure you, it is not. When you really come to a proper understanding of how all sin in your life offends God, you will naturally want to avoid it, and when you do sin, confess it to a priest, and Jesus forgives you through the priest, just as Our Lord commanded the Apostles to do.

Another nice post!

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[In_His_Grace]

Actually it’s not

For the sake of clarification

1 Has to be a serious matter if a group of 100 informed and practicing catholics were asked if “such and such” action would be a mortla sin, and over halg agree that it is; then VERY likely, it is

1. One gas to know that the act they they are considering IS a Mortal sin
2. The freely decide to do it anyway

IF in doubt ask your Priest Confessor, so the next time [Heaven FORBID that their is a next time], you’ll know for SURE if it is or isn’t.

God Bless you and Guide you’re path to His Singular truths!

Patrick

Hi Patrick,

I fully understand this …

Hi zz912,

I just wanted to make sure I understand Catholic teaching. If a Catholic commits a mortal sin, is fully culpable for the guilt of said mortal sin (based on grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent of the will), deliberately, consciously, with ample opportunity to do so fails to go to confession, such a person will go to hell?

Thanks and blessings.

Blessings

 

[JMM1957]

Actually it’s not

For the sake of clarification

1 Has to be a serious matter if a group of 100 informed and practicing catholics were asked if “such and such” action would be a mortla sin, and over halg agree that it is; then VERY likely, it is

1. One gas to know that the act they they are considering IS a Mortal sin
2. The freely decide to do it anyway

IF in doubt ask your Priest Confessor, so the next time [Heaven FORBID that their is a next time], you’ll know for SURE if it is or isn’t.

God Bless you and Guide you’re path to His Singular truths!

Patrick

It’s good that you specified “informed and practicing Catholics,” because according to the latest polls, it seems at least 50% of those who call themselves Catholic, are not in line with Church teaching on many of the controversial topics of today, like gay marriage for instance.

 

[In_His_Grace]

It’s good that you specified “informed and practicing Catholics,” because according to the latest polls, it seems at least 50% of those who call themselves Catholic, are not in line with Church teaching on many of the controversial topics of today, like gay marriage for instance.

You are so right and not just in regards to controversial topics of today. I’ve read plenty of stats from reliable, reputable pollsters that verify what you say is in fact true. My wife is a 48 year old cradle Catholic, poorly catechized, and is a 100% bonafide cafeteria Catholic. She believes whatever she wants to believe and could really care less what the Catholic Church actually teaches. I guess my question would be is she really Catholic or just Catholic in name only?

Blessings

 

[In_His_Grace]

Actually it’s not

For the sake of clarification

1 Has to be a serious matter if a group of 100 informed and practicing catholics were asked if “such and such” action would be a mortla sin, and over halg agree that it is; then VERY likely, it is

1. One gas to know that the act they they are considering IS a Mortal sin
2. The freely decide to do it anyway

IF in doubt ask your Priest Confessor, so the next time [Heaven FORBID that their is a next time], you’ll know for SURE if it is or isn’t.

God Bless you and Guide you’re path to His Singular truths!

Patrick

Could you help us out here Patrick and use the “view post” link in your responses?

Thanks

 

[In_His_Grace]

It’s good that you specified “informed and practicing Catholics,” because according to the latest polls, it seems at least 50% of those who call themselves Catholic, are not in line with Church teaching on many of the controversial topics of today, like gay marriage for instance.

Hi JMM1957,

You are almost 60, I am 60, and Patrick is 71. All of us remember what came out of the 1960’s and actually began way before the 1960’s but definitely accelerated like on super steroids during the 1960’s. The culture is ravaging Christendom.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

We have a different view of man’s ability. Do to the fall we acknowledge that man does not have the ability or the liberty to choose God.

This is why Jesus said in Jn 6:44, “No man CAN come to Me,except the Father. …draw him” .

Jesus did not say “may not” but rather “can not” meaning he is not able in himself to choose the good.

The “drawing power” of the Father is a prerequisite grace of salvation.

So the credit goes to God, not to man.

yes, and why Paul distinguishes between the old man (which can not choose God) and the new man, where all things are new (where man does choose God).