What is the difference in Protestants being "saved" and Catholic salvation?

[In_His_Grace]

All sins are forgiven in Confession, mortal and venial. So it does not matter if it was mortal or venial, as long as they were repentant, and tried their best to list out all mortal sins committed and didn’t attempt to hide any.

I understand this and thank you.

 

[JMM1957]

JMM,

Do you really think we are ignorant of “that”. Is there such a thing as being intentionally ignorant of something. Like I know 2+2 =4, but I am going to be intentionally ignorant of it (when I already know it, am not ignorant of it ?) ?

We just differ on two of what plus two of what equals four of what.

Blessings

LOL, perfect example of why someone should go back and read what they just wrote before they press the “submit” button!

 

[JMM1957]

The parable of the workers in the vineyard was for the benefit of those faithful Christians who have diligently obeyed God for all/much of their lives. We are not to be angry or upset that God gives those who convert late in life the gift of salvation. God is saying to us, “have I failed to give you what I promised (salvation)? Why are you upset that I also save these as well?”.

In other places, Jesus teaches clearly there is a hierarchy in Heaven, and that He will reward differently. He teaches about the talents, and how the one who made 10 talents will be given 10 more, and the one who made 5 will be given 5 more, and one who did nothing with his talent will have it given away to the one with 10 talents.

So there is some hierarchy, and for those who labor diligently for Jesus, and sacrifice their lives for Him, will be rewarded with a closeness to Him that those who convert at their deathbed will not experience. They will receive Heaven, but the grace poured out on them will not be as great.

Thanks!

 

[PJM]

=JMM1957;13276687]It’s good that you specified “informed and practicing Catholics,” because according to the latest polls, it seems at least 50% of those who call themselves Catholic, are not in line with Church teaching on many of the controversial topics of today, like gay marriage for instance.

Yes,

Likely the same 50+ percent that helped bout Clinton and Obama in office:shrug:

Name ONLY catholic s,

May God have mercy on them

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=eazyduzit;13277790]Thank you Patrick, your definition of “life of grace” is an exact quote from CCC.

So maintaining salvation means:

1. Walking obediently
2. Avoiding sin.

In contrast, the Bible says, “But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound” .Rm5:20

Heb10:2 says,"…the worshippers once purged should have no more conscience of sins".

In other words, if we are still looking at our sins, then we are not walking by faith.

I know this sounds shocking to religious ears, but if we keep on being conscious of sins as the man in Rm7, it will lead to bondage.

My friend, God permitting one to hold their own opinion, in NO WAY means that He accepts it.

No one teaching can, may or does have the Power or Authority yo override, make volid or invalidate another…

Clear and precisely is the language Christ choose to explain and share HIS Truth [always singular per defined issue] of giving all of the key’s to His Kingdom [Mt 16:18-19]
and then personally warranting it [jn 17: 17-19] and then commanding the Apostles and there successors [Mt 10:1-8 compared to Mt 28:16-20] that THEY should teach His Truths to the entire world.

You my friend have to decide which truths you;ll accept? God’s or the very human men who established your church in order to compete with Christ Catholicism…

I suggest that you PRAY MUCH, as much is at stake.

God Bless you!

Patrick

 

[zz912]

Ok, I understand. When you say “intend to go to Confession” this means, pertaining to mortal sin, a minimum of once per year per canon law (see below)? I realize it is recommended as well as good that a person go more often, especially when one is aware of committing a mortal sin?

Code of Canon Law

CHAPTER III.

THE PENITENT

Can. 989 After having reached the age of discretion, each member of the faithful is ob-liged to confess faithfully his or her grave sins at least once a year.

Thanks again and blessings.

I’d be real hesitant about making that conclusion. The Church tries to set the requirements she lays out in the least burdensome manner, considering they are universal rules for people in all kinds of situations, societies and places. Some live extremely far away from a parish, or don’t have a priest that visits often. Others live in countries that suppress or oppress the religion.

Someone who has remorse for their sin in June, but puts off planning to going to Confession until much later, like Lent, even though it is frequently available, is coming dangerously close to the sin of presumption and risking their soul.

I’m not the Judge, so I can’t say definitely on this matter, but a good rule of thumb is when it happens, pray a prayer to God asking forgiveness, pray an act of contrition, and make it a point to get to the next regularly available confession time at your parish, if not sooner. You don’t need to wake the priest up in the middle of the night, but you should take some time to get to Confession soon.

As an aside, I once heard a Catholic speaker (maybe Matthew Kelly?) who talked about how we change the oil and wash/clean our cars more frequently than we do our souls. We put so much pride and care in our cars, but give scant attention to our immortal souls.

 

[JMM1957]

I’d be real hesitant about making that conclusion. The Church tries to set the requirements she lays out in the least burdensome manner, considering they are universal rules for people in all kinds of situations, societies and places. Some live extremely far away from a parish, or don’t have a priest that visits often. Others live in countries that suppress or oppress the religion.

Someone who has remorse for their sin in June, but puts off planning to going to Confession until much later, like Lent, even though it is frequently available, is coming dangerously close to the sin of presumption and risking their soul.

I’m not the Judge, so I can’t say definitely on this matter, but a good rule of thumb is when it happens, pray a prayer to God asking forgiveness, pray an act of contrition, and make it a point to get to the next regularly available confession time at your parish, if not sooner. You don’t need to wake the priest up in the middle of the night, but you should take some time to get to Confession soon.

As an aside, I once heard a Catholic speaker (maybe Matthew Kelly?) who talked about how we change the oil and wash/clean our cars more frequently than we do our souls. We put so much pride and care in our cars, but give scant attention to our immortal souls.

Isn’t that the truth.

 

[opulumpu]

WOW; then just where and how does one “get saved” if NOT in and through"the church"[MY emphasis added above]

What you suggest for sin-forgiveness is a possibility; BUT an certain ONE.

This is MAN"S way; HIGHLY conditional and NOT assured.

Catholic Sacramental Confession is the KNOWN forgiveness of our sins; permitting as Jesus envisioned GREAT inner-peace AND GRAVE to aid one in not sinning that way again:

John 20:21-23

He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] **Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, **they are retained

THis is the second BEST reason [IMO] to be a practicing Catholic:thumbsup:

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[opulumpu]

opulumpu:
Patrick,

I admire your tenacity but not sure you can get very far with EASYDUZIT. He appears very knowledgeable and I respect him for coming on this board and defending what he believes, whether those beliefs are right or wrong. You can take a horse to the creek but it is hard to make it drink.

My question to all protestants is:

Of all the 40,000 (and counting) odd protestant denominations, from Lutherans to The Second Church of the New Age on Mount Zion, which one offers something better or equal to the Catholic or Othodox Churches. Show me how you are better at following Jesus and I will come join you, but please do not quote the Bible for it was put together by the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church went astray, show me where it went astray and when it went astray and how your denomination has straightened things out.

The Bible, as we know it today, came into existence some decades after the death of Christ. There were Christians before the Bible and there was a Church before the Bible and Jesus said he will be with His Church until the end of time. Please let me know if your reformation goes back to pre-Bible Christianity, post-Martin Luther Christianity or whatever era Christianity you judged to be the departure of the Church from the true path.

Can you imagine if all Christians are united under one leadership and spoke with one voice!!!

 

[JMM1957]

Show me how you are better at following Jesus and I will come join you, but please do not quote the Bible for it was put together by the Catholic Church.

You gotta love it. Unfortunately, some people demand to be shown they are wrong from Scripture itself. They don’t want to hear about Tradition. 2 Tim. 3:16, “All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.” Notice, you should be able to refute and correct someone using Scripture. But of course, how a verse of Scripture is interpreted can and does become a major factor. So, in the end, it all comes down to AUTHORITY, and what church has been given it.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Yes,

Likely the same 50+ percent that helped bout Clinton and Obama in office:shrug:

Name ONLY catholic s,

May God have mercy on them

Patrick

You are so right and not just in regards to controversial topics of today. I’ve read plenty of stats from reliable, reputable pollsters that verify what you say is in fact true. My wife is a 48 year old cradle Catholic, poorly catechized, and is a 100% bonafide cafeteria Catholic. She believes whatever she wants to believe and could really care less what the Catholic Church actually teaches. I guess my question would be is she really Catholic or just Catholic in name only?

Blessings

Looks like you answered a question I posted earlier Patrick. My wife really isn’t Catholic?

Blessings

 

[In_His_Grace]

I’d be real hesitant about making that conclusion. The Church tries to set the requirements she lays out in the least burdensome manner, considering they are universal rules for people in all kinds of situations, societies and places. Some live extremely far away from a parish, or don’t have a priest that visits often. Others live in countries that suppress or oppress the religion.

Someone who has remorse for their sin in June, but puts off planning to going to Confession until much later, like Lent, even though it is frequently available, is coming dangerously close to the sin of presumption and risking their soul.

I’m not the Judge, so I can’t say definitely on this matter, but a good rule of thumb is when it happens, pray a prayer to God asking forgiveness, pray an act of contrition, and make it a point to get to the next regularly available confession time at your parish, if not sooner. You don’t need to wake the priest up in the middle of the night, but you should take some time to get to Confession soon.

As an aside, I once heard a Catholic speaker (maybe Matthew Kelly?) who talked about how we change the oil and wash/clean our cars more frequently than we do our souls. We put so much pride and care in our cars, but give scant attention to our immortal souls.

Thanks again zz912, I am beginning to get a better grasp on this but have so much to learn.

In His Grace

 

[eazyduzit]

My friend, God permitting one to hold their own opinion, in NO WAY means that He accepts it.

No one teaching can, may or does have the Power or Authority yo override, make volid or invalidate another…

Clear and precisely is the language Christ choose to explain and share HIS Truth [always singular per defined issue] of giving all of the key’s to His Kingdom [Mt 16:18-19]
and then personally warranting it [jn 17: 17-19] and then commanding the Apostles and there successors [Mt 10:1-8 compared to Mt 28:16-20] that THEY should teach His Truths to the entire world.

You my friend have to decide which truths you;ll accept? God’s or the very human men who established your church in order to compete with Christ Catholicism…

I suggest that you PRAY MUCH, as much is at stake.

God Bless you!

Patrick

Thanks for your warning Patrick, and know you are sincere, but your view of scripture is too heavily slanted. I believe in the whole bible as it is. St.John testifies (1Jn5:11-13) "And this is
the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in the Son.12He that hath the
Son hath life. …13These things have I WRITTEN unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life. Jn17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God…”
Jn10:28. “And I give unto them eternal life ; and they shall NEVER PERISH , neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

This is so clear that one needs help to misunderstand it. I can know by faith in God’s promise
that without a doubt, I have the zoe life of God right now. Now is when i need it. Believing God is always better than doubting. I believe 1Cor1:8 which says that God will confirm me unto the end, that I may be BLAMELESS in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful. …

I receive and believe everything that God promises and you are welcome not to, but don’t put it on others.

 

[eazyduzit]

Patrick,

I admire your tenacity but not sure you can get very far with EASYDUZIT. He appears very knowledgeable and I respect him for coming on this board and defending what he believes, whether those beliefs are right or wrong. You can take a horse to the creek but it is hard to make it drink.

My question to all protestants is:

Of all the 40,000 (and counting) odd protestant denominations, from Lutherans to The Second Church of the New Age on Mount Zion, which one offers something better or equal to the Catholic or Othodox Churches. Show me how you are better at following Jesus and I will come join you, but please do not quote the Bible for it was put together by the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church went astray, show me where it went astray and when it went astray and how your denomination has straightened things out.

The Bible, as we know it today, came into existence some decades after the death of Christ. There were Christians before the Bible and there was a Church before the Bible and Jesus said he will be with His Church until the end of time. Please let me know if your reformation goes back to pre-Bible Christianity, post-Martin Luther Christianity or whatever era Christianity you judged to be the departure of the Church from the true path.

Can you imagine if all Christians are united under one leadership and spoke with one voice!!!

If the bible was not in existence before Christ, then what was he quoting from?

 

[PRmerger]

If the bible was not in existence before Christ, then what was he quoting from?

The Old Testament.

 

[principio]

The presumption of Gods mercy is a sin.

 

[PRmerger]

St.John testifies (1Jn5:11-13) "And this is
the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in the Son.12He that hath the
Son hath life. …13These things have I WRITTEN unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life.

Amen! Very Catholic, this!

Jn17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God…”
Jn10:28. “And I give unto them eternal life ; and they shall NEVER PERISH , neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Amen!

This is so clear that one needs help to misunderstand it. I can know by faith in God’s promise
that without a doubt, I have the zoe life of God right now

Until you sin…:sad_yes:

Now is when i need it. Believing God is always better than doubting.

Very Catholic.

I believe 1Cor1:8 which says that God will confirm me unto the end, that I may be BLAMELESS in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful. …

Certainly…until you sin.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Patrick,

I admire your tenacity but not sure you can get very far with EASYDUZIT. He appears very knowledgeable and I respect him for coming on this board and defending what he believes, whether those beliefs are right or wrong. You can take a horse to the creek but it is hard to make it drink.

My question to all protestants is:

Of all the 40,000 (and counting) odd protestant denominations, from Lutherans to The Second Church of the New Age on Mount Zion, which one offers something better or equal to the Catholic or Othodox Churches. Show me how you are better at following Jesus and I will come join you, but please do not quote the Bible for it was put together by the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church went astray, show me where it went astray and when it went astray and how your denomination has straightened things out.

The Bible, as we know it today, came into existence some decades after the death of Christ. There were Christians before the Bible and there was a Church before the Bible and Jesus said he will be with His Church until the end of time. Please let me know if your reformation goes back to pre-Bible Christianity, post-Martin Luther Christianity or whatever era Christianity you judged to be the departure of the Church from the true path.

Can you imagine if all Christians are united under one leadership and spoke with one voice!!!

Most of those so called Protestant denominations are named marginal ( I.e heretical) therefore the true number should actually be closer to 3000 and denominations are subdivisions, not churches , there are only 7 Protestant churches 1.Lutheran , 2.Reformed , 3.Anglican , 4.Anabaptist, 5. Hussite , 6.Adventist , and 7.Westlyan , and FYI one MUST use the Holy Scriptures to show error for it is commanded by the scriptures to do so . There is no prebible era , the Old Testament was already written, and the New Testament was written in a few decades after the death and resurrection of Christ, and lastly , we do not deny tradition ,we place it secondary to Holy Scriptures.

 

[JMM1957]

Most of those so called Protestant denominations are named marginal ( I.e heretical) therefore the true number should actually be closer to 3000 and denominations are subdivisions, not churches , there are only 7 Protestant churches 1.Lutheran , 2.Reformed , 3.Anglican , 4.Anabaptist, 5. Hussite , 6.Adventist , and 7.Westlyan , and FYI one MUST use the Holy Scriptures to show error for it is commanded by the scriptures to do so . There is no prebible era , the Old Testament was already written, and the New Testament was written in a few decades after the death and resurrection of Christ, and lastly , we do not deny tradition ,we place it secondary to Holy Scriptures.

It depends on who you ask. I did some checking on my own, and it seems that there is no agreement on how many there are, even Protestant scholars are far apart on the estimates. It seems like even the average Protestant churchgoer is embarrassed about how many there are, and wishes there was greater agreement between them from what I have read. The reason for this is clear, because they can look at the Catholic Church and see ONE Church, not 3000, 20,000, or 30,000. I don’t think it was Jesus intention to have it take 2000 years for the truth to be sorted out, do you?

 

[PRmerger]

Most of those so called Protestant denominations are named marginal ( I.e heretical)

Who determines when someone is declaring a heretical doctrine?

For example, is it heresy to declare that baptism is only an ordinance, and not a sacrament?

What about to say that Sunday is NOT the day of worship but Saturday is?

Or that Jesus is the brother of the Archangel Michael?

therefore the true number should actually be closer to 3000 and denominations

Source, please?

are subdivisions, not churches , there are only 7 Protestant churches 1.Lutheran , 2.Reformed , 3.Anglican , 4.Anabaptist, 5. Hussite , 6.Adventist , and 7.Westlyan , and FYI one MUST use the Holy Scriptures to show error for it is commanded by the scriptures to do so . There is no prebible era , the Old Testament was already written, and the New Testament was written in a few decades after the death and resurrection of Christ, and lastly , we do not deny tradition ,we place it secondary to Holy Scriptures.

What subdivision is this church, and how do you know?

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20805&d=1411060938

And what about this church: