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Starwarsfan2
Guest
There are basic beliefs which one must believe , deny those and that person is not a Christian, Protestant churches accept the basic truths of the Scriptures, marginal people do not accept them .
What is the difference in Protestants being "saved" and Catholic salvation?
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opulumpu
Guest
If any one doubts about the proliferation of these Protestant Churches just visit some of the big cities in the southwest USA and do a head count; you will be amazed. All it takes is pick up the Bible, convince a few souls that you had dinner with Jesus in a vision and you become a Pastor of the Eight Church of the Resurection of New Age Believers.
Thanks Martin Luther and your adherents.
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PRmerger
Guest
What are these basic beliefs, and what verses tell you they are basic beliefs?
Please note: I am not asking for the verses which maintain these beliefs. I am looking for Scripture which tells us that it’s a basic belief or a secondary belief.
So if you could list these basic beliefs, and that verses which tell us it’s a basic belief, that would be helpful.
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Starwarsfan2
Guest
I’m going to have to go somewhere soon so I don’t have much time to list verses , suffice it to say for now that you know the basic beliefs and the verses that support them , and the tradition that supports them ( yes sola scriptura supports tradition ) , sorry for the short answer but I gtg .
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PRmerger
Guest
That’s curious. One would think that these “basic beliefs” would be at the tip of your fingers.
Actually, I absolutely reject that there are basic beliefs and Scripture verses that support that these are basic beliefs.
In fact, I assert that the Bible doesn’t say that at all.
So if you could list these, as soon as possible, that would be great!
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eazyduzit
Guest
The Apostles Creed is a set of basic or fundamental beliefs held by the majority of Christendom, however many do not see it as complete. It does not address the inerrancy of scripture.
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eazyduzit
Guest
This is a tragic misunderstanding of the Gospel. At the cross, Jesus put away all sin, not just part of it, past, present, and future. Not future sins says the Catholic. Well, when Christ died,
how much of your sin was future? Well, all of it I hope. Yes, all your sin is under the blood. God remembers it no more Heb.10:17. Now it is also understood that we still sin, but that does not disqualify us .Why not? Because" He ever liveth to make intercession for (us)"Heb7:25. I may fail, but Jesus does not. If Israel fails, does it cancel the covenant?
Law keepers rebel against this because they think it will cause people to sin more, but this expression of God’s love actually produces the opposite.
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Michael68
Guest
Which “law” are you referring to? I hear that used a lot, law keepers
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eazyduzit
Guest
God’ s truth both unites AND divides.
Luther revived the truth of Justification by Faith.
Thanks Luther.
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Michael68
Guest
How do you revive a doctrine already in place???
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eazyduzit
Guest
It does not refer to any specific law. If following some rule or just doing something good makes you think you have more favor from God, then you are a “Iaw keeper”. Read Rm.14
“For the kingdom of God is not meat or drink, [What I do or don’t do ] but righteousness and peace and joy in the holy Ghost”.
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Michael68
Guest
Cool, then Catholics aren’t law keepers. Thanx
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eazyduzit
Guest
Of course it was in the bible, but the meaning was lost. However, it didn’t come to Luther in a vacuum. He was an Augustinian monk so he would have read Augustine. But even before Luther there there was a German priest/preacher by the name of John Tauler who already began expressing this idea in his sermons, some of which are still in print today or available as an e-book. This man was in turn a student of Meister Echart.
So you do not have only Luther to blame. The reformation in Bohemia and Moravia did not come thru Luther. Jan Huss went to Oxford to study and there met Wycliffe and took his gospel knowledge back to Prague.
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eazyduzit
Guest
Cool, then don’t condemn others for not following your…RULES!
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Porknpie
Guest
Then there was scripture itself, explicitly saying that faith, without works is dead, that even the demons believe, and Abraham was justified not by faith, but by works.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?[a] 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,
St. Paul summarizes the whole text next. The only time in scripture that the words “Faith alone” are ever used together :
“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
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Porknpie
Guest
Actually, this is not true. It is very common, especially on CAF to dialogue with Catholics on scripture alone.
The the problem becomes interpretation of that scripture, and who and where does one go to settle the dispute? Who has the authority to decide and where did that authority come from to decide what scripture means. This includes explicit verses :
- We are saved by faith and works (James 2:14-26)
- Baptism now saves you (1 Peter 3)
- Those who believe AND are baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)
- he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life (John 6)
This is true because Jesus Christ never said to write everything down. In fact, he never said to write anything down. He said to go preach the gospel. Catholic’s adhere to St. Paul (here I am arguing from scripture alone) :
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Thes 2:15)
Arguing from scripture alone, if you have a verse that says :
- We should hold to scripture alone
- Delay baptism to the age of reason
- Baptism is only symbolic profession of faith
- The Eucharist is symbolic only
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JMM1957
Guest
When did this happen and who corrected it?
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JMM1957
Guest
After almost 60 years of being a Catholic, I certainly understand what the cross of Christ did away with. It is vital to know this, that in order for Christ’s sacrifice to apply to you as a Christian, you need to “follow Him,” which I defined in my post but you conveniently ignored. Hebrews 10:17 applies to you “IF” you follow Him, this idea is consistent throughout the Scriptures. “If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement.” (Hebrews 10:26-27).
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Michael68
Guest
These are not MY rules. And i don’t accept your “do nothing” gospel and no Catholic should.
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PRmerger
Guest
You get these fundamentals, then, from the Church, and NOT from Scripture.
For, or course, Scripture does not give us a list of fundamentals.
That comes from the Church.
I hope that you understand that this makes you NOT a Bible Alone Christian, if you profess that the Apostles Creed is the set of fundamental beliefs.
Egg-zactly.
That ought to be a big problem for you.
And it doesn’t address Scripture being the Word of God.
Nor does it address Faith Alone.
Nor does it mention grace.
Do you believe you can be a Christian without believing that Scripture is the Word of God?
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