What is the Eastern Orthodox view of the Catholic Church?

[Randy_Carson]

Your comments are belittled by some not for reasons of anti-Catholic sentiment (for I can hardly imagine that the many Eastern Catholics who rebuked you as being ardent haters of Catholicism), but for reasons of their content.

Thank you, Brother.

 

[Novocastrian]

I have nothing like the experience you have had, but a few months of interaction with Orthodox here in this forum have convinced me that yours is not an isolated case.

The animosity you and other posters have described truly flows one way only. (Just watch to see how my comments are belittled.)

Welcome back!

Hi Randy.

I completely agree with you that some Roman Catholics do have a rose-tinted view of Orthodoxy, as if it were just Roman Catholicism without the Pope and with more beards! That said, on these boards I have seen very little (although not zero!) personal animosity between EO and RC Christians, but rather strong doctrinal disagreement. I don’t think there’s a huge difference between the EO view of the RC Church, and the RC view of Protestant churches. Individual Protestants may wrongly interpret Rome’s language of ‘ecclesiastical communities’ as Roman anti-Protestantism, when it in fact simply reflects their ecclesiology. In the same way, the strong words Orthodox posters can address in your direction seem to imply little personal animosity.

Best wishes,

N.

 

[concretecamper]

What are everyone’s thoughts on the private revelations of Our Lady of Soufanieh/Damascus (call for unity of East and West)? From what I understand, both the Catholic and Orthodox sides seem to be in favor…or at least not vehemently opposed to the messages from the apparitions.

I hope the family is OK since the violence in Syria erupted…

Is this approved by the Church? I have never heard of it?

 

[concretecamper]

What are everyone’s thoughts on the private revelations of Our Lady of Soufanieh/Damascus (call for unity of East and West)? From what I understand, both the Catholic and Orthodox sides seem to be in favor…or at least not vehemently opposed to the messages from the apparitions.

I hope the family is OK since the violence in Syria erupted…

Is this approved by the Church? I have never heard of it?

 

[EIF5A]

Is this approved by the Church? I have never heard of it?

I believe it is approved by the Melkite Catholic patriarchy.

 

[chimo]

I know that the Catholic Church considers the Eastern Orthodox Churches to be churches in the proper sense: having apostolic succession, validly ordained and consecrated bishops and clergy, having the real presence of Christ in their Eucharist, etc.

But what do the Orthodox believe about Catholics? Do they reciprocate these beliefs for the Latin Church?

You must understand that the Orthodox Church is just as important into the affairs in this world which God has placed them as is the Catholic Church. That been said it is interesting that even though we have a 2000 year history as do the Catholic Church we really do not know each other as we can be known. I am certain we in each Church do not know each other as we should. I sense it is because we will not experience what the other lives by and lives on. We may read, look at our posts in these forums but honesty we do not really know what we need to know. My experience with the Catholic Church was more personal than most of the other Orthodox posters. I know the Catholic Church because I lived in her. I can say for sure that I admire and respect her for what she has become in these present days. I came to know my Orthodox Church much later in life. To my surprise I found her much different than the Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church has to my experiences a much different approach and discipline than what is there in the Catholic Church. I wish my Catholic brothers and sisters would know it as well. We may have the same Faith but we go about it differently. It is a compliment to God who has done this for us. I am convinced we were made different for a good reason. We need to recognize that these differences are good. What can be the best in us can be yours as well and to go from there. I am certain our lack of knowledge and experiences of each other is causing this confusion of knowing what to do. We need to step back a bit to discover why we are here and come to discover why the other is here as well. I am one Orthodox who sees in the Catholic Church the same witness as there is in the Orthodox Church and to see that both of them are incredibly important to God and to each other.

 

[MattofTexas]

It’s very interesting to see that the Orthodox do not have one unified view of Catholicism and its validity, but it’s not surprising in light of this information I just found:

The Orthodox Church in America is the youngest of all the Orthodox Churches, but has proven itself a leader, particular in educational institutions, mission planting and translation of important patristic and liturgical materials.

Currently, the Russian, Bulgarian, Georgian, Polish, and Czech and Slovak Churches recognize the autocephaly of the OCA, though the Bulgarian and Russian patriarchates continue to maintain parishes inside the OCA’s claimed jurisdiction.

Among the Churches that do not recognize it is the Patriarchate of Constantinople, which argues that the Russian Church did not have the authority to grant autocephaly.

If some Orthodox Churches argue that other Orthodox Churches don’t have the right to autonomous jurisdiction while other Churches recognize said jurisdiction how could all the Orthodox possibly agree on the validity of a Church they are in schism with?

 

[FrankLJ]

For the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Churches are sister Churches with true apostolic succession, valid sacraments, and who hold to the orthodox catholic faith delivered to the saints. We view Orthodox Christians as already being in an imperfect communion with the Catholic Church - imperfect yet so profound that we invite them to share our Eucharist. The Orthodox are not heretics and individual Orthodox Christians are not even seen as formal schismatics.

For many, though not all, among the Orthodox, on the other hand, Catholics are heretics who have distorted and perverted the orthodox faith, and our eucharist is an empty show devoid of grace. For other Orthodox Christians, our Eucharist is a true participation in the body and blood of Christ and we, while heretodox on some points, are more or less orthodox. It really varies - the spectrum couldn’t be more extreme in my experience.

I am confused. I thought heresy was differing with the Catholic Church on a matter of doctrine. The ‘Filioque’ teaching of Orthodoxy is a matter of doctrine and differs from Catholic teaching. Why is this not heresy? I do not know enough about Catholic thinking to answer this question, does anyone here?

What exactly is a ‘formal schismatic’, and how does he differ from an informal one?

 

[Trebor135]

May God grant you many years!

Thanks, Cavaradossi

The Orthodox Church views the Catholic Church’s Sacraments as valid, so there isn’t a huge issue there.

Where did you hear/read this?

The main difference between the two is the fact that the Catholic Church has a Pope, and the Orthodox do not believe, nor do they agree with the fact that a man stands in the way of God. Not my words, but the words of a fellow Orthodox acquaintance.

What about the other issues I mentioned in another post.

The Orthodox Christian you cite sounds almost like a Protestant grumbling about the role of the priest/bishop.

 

[Nine_Two]

It’s very interesting to see that the Orthodox do not have one unified view of Catholicism and its validity, but it’s not surprising in light of this information I just found:

If some Orthodox Churches argue that other Orthodox Churches don’t have the right to autonomous jurisdiction while other Churches recognize said jurisdiction how could all the Orthodox possibly agree on the validity of a Church they are in schism with?

I’m not following what you’re saying here. Are you saying that because there is a dispute on one matter there must be a dispute on others?

For the record all the Churches are agreed on an official level - they agree that the validity of the Roman Catholic Church is none of our business and has nothing to do with us.

 

[ScottEH]

I am confused. I thought heresy was differing with the Catholic Church on a matter of doctrine. The ‘Filioque’ teaching of Orthodoxy is a matter of doctrine and differs from Catholic teaching. Why is this not heresy? I do not know enough about Catholic thinking to answer this question, does anyone here?

What exactly is a ‘formal schismatic’, and how does he differ from an informal one?

The filioque clause is not seen the same way in these communions. Orthodox usually say the clause was either inappropriately inserted into the creed, or outright heretical. Either way, they consider it a barrier to reunion. On the other hand, Catholics don’t believe it to be heretical to say it or to omit it. The Latin Church uses the clause, while most Eastern Churches do not. Its also important to note that it is apparently heretical if translated into Greek, for reasons of the limitations of language.

Individual Orthodox are not viewed as schismatics because they aren’t responsible for a nearly 1,000 year old schism. Someone who would be schismatic is Luther, or Calvin, or any number of modern liberals and ultra traditionalists who deny the Church.

 

[spina1953]

You must understand that the Orthodox Church is just as important into the affairs in this world which God has placed them as is the Catholic Church. That been said it is interesting that even though we have a 2000 year history as do the Catholic Church we really do not know each other as we can be known. I am certain we in each Church do not know each other as we should. I sense it is because we will not experience what the other lives by and lives on. We may read, look at our posts in these forums but honesty we do not really know what we need to know. My experience with the Catholic Church was more personal than most of the other Orthodox posters. I know the Catholic Church because I lived in her. I can say for sure that I admire and respect her for what she has become in these present days. I came to know my Orthodox Church much later in life. To my surprise I found her much different than the Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church has to my experiences a much different approach and discipline than what is there in the Catholic Church. I wish my Catholic brothers and sisters would know it as well. We may have the same Faith but we go about it differently. It is a compliment to God who has done this for us. I am convinced we were made different for a good reason. We need to recognize that these differences are good. What can be the best in us can be yours as well and to go from there. I am certain our lack of knowledge and experiences of each other is causing this confusion of knowing what to do. We need to step back a bit to discover why we are here and come to discover why the other is here as well. I am one Orthodox who sees in the Catholic Church the same witness as there is in the Orthodox Church and to see that both of them are incredibly important to God and to each other.

Even though I am a Catholic, I have to agree with your statement. Goo post!!!

 

[Casilda]

You must understand that the Orthodox Church is just as important into the affairs in this world which God has placed them as is the Catholic Church. That been said it is interesting that even though we have a 2000 year history as do the Catholic Church we really do not know each other as we can be known. I am certain we in each Church do not know each other as we should. I sense it is because we will not experience what the other lives by and lives on. We may read, look at our posts in these forums but honesty we do not really know what we need to know. My experience with the Catholic Church was more personal than most of the other Orthodox posters. I know the Catholic Church because I lived in her. I can say for sure that I admire and respect her for what she has become in these present days. I came to know my Orthodox Church much later in life. To my surprise I found her much different than the Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church has to my experiences a much different approach and discipline than what is there in the Catholic Church. I wish my Catholic brothers and sisters would know it as well. We may have the same Faith but we go about it differently. It is a compliment to God who has done this for us. I am convinced we were made different for a good reason. We need to recognize that these differences are good. What can be the best in us can be yours as well and to go from there. I am certain our lack of knowledge and experiences of each other is causing this confusion of knowing what to do. We need to step back a bit to discover why we are here and come to discover why the other is here as well. I am one Orthodox who sees in the Catholic Church the same witness as there is in the Orthodox Church and to see that both of them are incredibly important to God and to each other.

I agree with you. I was 2yrs into Eastern Orthodoxy and all I could see was that these two branches (sorry if this is not technically the right word) are the same thing, just slightly different. The Orthodox priest had a mindset to ‘break’ Catholics. I could not be ‘broken’, I would rather be in the Roman church that accepts its Eastern brothers.

Timothy Ware in his book, cited that each of these two churches needed each other, each is lacking something the other has. So a pax would be wonderful.

 

[Trebor135]

I agree with you. I was 2yrs into Eastern Orthodoxy and all I could see was that these two branches (sorry if this is not technically the right word) are the same thing, just slightly different. The Orthodox priest had a mindset to ‘break’ Catholics. I could not be ‘broken’, I would rather be in the Roman church that accepts its Eastern brothers.

Why did you take one individual priest’s attitude and approach as some kind of proof that Orthodoxy is not the true apostolic faith? If an Anglican met a Catholic priest who they found to harbour animoscity against Protestantism and its adherents, would they be justified in heading out the door and never going back?

Your methodology for determining where the true Church is, I find baffling and unfair.

Timothy Ware in his book, cited that each of these two churches needed each other, each is lacking something the other has. So a pax would be wonderful.

If you believe the Catholic Church is the true body of Christ, how can it lack anything?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why did you take one individual priest’s attitude and approach as some kind of proof that Orthodoxy is not the true apostolic faith? If an Anglican met a Catholic priest who they found to harbour animoscity against Protestantism and its adherents, would they be justified in heading out the door and never going back?

Your methodology for determining where the true Church is, I find baffling and unfair.

If you read all the posts in the thread, you will see that the problem is not just one priest.

 

[Randy_Carson]

If you believe the Catholic Church is the true body of Christ, how can it lack anything?

I don’t know what Met. Ware had in mind, but my bet would be that it has to do more with spirituality than anything else. Consequently, the Catholic Church is not lacking in formal sufficiency, but we can always learn from each other about how to respond to God in different ways.

 

[thequietsinger]

I have nothing like the experience you have had, but a few months of interaction with Orthodox here in this forum have convinced me that yours is not an isolated case.

The animosity you and other posters have described truly flows one way only. (Just watch to see how my comments are belittled.)

Welcome back!

I want to apologize to you if I was one of the ones who belittled your comments, as I truly did not mean to if I did. There’s no need to belittle anyone, and I can relate to being belittled on here. I truly am sorry if I have done or said anything wrong or mean to you.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I want to apologize to you if I was one of the ones who belittled your comments, as I truly did not mean to if I did. There’s no need to belittle anyone, and I can relate to being belittled on here. I truly am sorry if I have done or said anything wrong or mean to you.

Be at peace…you were not on my list of folks I expected to hear from. I’m a lightning rod for a certain crowd.

I see that you are in the process of swimming the Tiber. Congratulations and safe passage!

 

[dzheremi]

I don’t know what Met. Ware had in mind, but my bet would be that it has to do more with spirituality than anything else.

And you would know that because you know so much about Orthodox spirituality (being a Catholic and all), or about Met. Ware, or…what exactly are you basing this on?

I have to say, even though I own it myself I cringe a little bit when Met. Ware’s (he wasn’t Metropolitan of anything when he wrote it) book is recommended to those who are interested in Orthodoxy. It’s not his fault; I think it’s a matter of the book being taken as an authoritative reference rather than one of the more readable introductions to Byzantine Orthodoxy in English.

The best introduction, of course, is going to a liturgy. I doubt you’ll find anything missing there spiritually, unless you go there expecting to find Latin devotions and leave disappointed when they’re not there.

The Orthodox Church has absolutely nothing to learn from other churches. Individual Orthodox people, maybe (e.g., I had to explain to people at my church that RCs do not worship the Theotokos or place her as equal to God), but the Church itself is whole and complete, lacking nothing in its worship or understanding of the apostolic faith.

 

[Nine_Two]

I have to say, even though I own it myself I cringe a little bit when Met. Ware’s (he wasn’t Metropolitan of anything when he wrote it) book is recommended to those who are interested in Orthodoxy. It’s not his fault; I think it’s a matter of the book being taken as an authoritative reference rather than one of the more readable introductions to Byzantine Orthodoxy in English.

I’m the same way. Someone recommended I read it when I was first exploring the Church, and I’m glad I did, but sometimes you would think he was the Orthodox pope the way people speak of what he wrote.