What is the form for a communion service?

[Titus]

Why would you ever need a weekday communion service?
I have never seen any proponents of this satisfactorily answer that query.

In addition, the idea of a woman saying the words of consecration **could be **grounds for excommunication, probably latae setentiae.

Canon 1378
Pretended celebration of the Holy Eucharist or conferral of sacramental absolution by one not a priest

Worrying.

 

[AJV]

Our Rite has the EMHC hold the Host slightly above the ciborium and say either “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Happy are those called to the banquet of the Lamb” or “God’s holy gifts for God’s holy people, draw near to receive them with praise and thanksgiving”

Are these approved in Canada? Can they be used in the Mass there or are they only options for Communion services.

 

[MusicMan]

There are a couple of ideas here that cloud the issue …

1.) In the West, we are very strong into the belief that frequent reception of Communion is a good thing … almost a necessary thing. I cannot speak to whether or not this is promulgated by Rome or by the Faithful. However, the Faithful seem to act as if they are entitled to receive the Sacrament any time unless the Law says otherwise (reception in one day, for example). We might all be more spiritually healthy if we received LESS OFTEN, truly being properly prepared to receive AND truly allowing the Eucharist to be the sumit of our Christian life.

2.) The usurption of priestly powers and the belief that deacons and lay can “fill-in” for a priest.

When these ideas are mixed in the cauldron of a priest on vacation, we get Communion Services in place of a daily Mass, which is not what Rome intended when they issued directives on Sunday Worship in the Absence of a Priest.

I think Rome has failed us on this issue, perhaps because they’re not able to see how absurd it has become in the US.

Rome would do much better to encourage frequent communal recitation of the so-called “hinge hours” of the Divine Office, which does not require a priest to preside. A deacon can preside, and a lay person can lead the Office. Add Morning Prayer, get people comfortable with it, and it will only enhance their prayer life, while at the same time eliminate this “Communion Service” confusion.

And, since this particular situation involves a school Mass, it would be beneficial for that school to engage in Morning Prayer anyway so that those children could learn about the other liturgies of the Church.

And, Marty Haugen has a delightfully awful setting of Evening Prayer called Holden Evening Prayer that I’m sure our more traditional members could easily fall in love with.

 

[Phemie]

Are these approved in Canada? Can they be used in the Mass there or are they only options for Communion services.

Only approved for the Rite of Distribution of Communion Outside the Eucharist not for Mass – and I suspect deliberately done to make it distinct from what’s said during Mass.

 

[Phemie]

There are a couple of ideas here that cloud the issue …

1.) In the West, we are very strong into the belief that frequent reception of Communion is a good thing … almost a necessary thing. I cannot speak to whether or not this is promulgated by Rome or by the Faithful. However, the Faithful seem to act as if they are entitled to receive the Sacrament any time unless the Law says otherwise (reception in one day, for example). We might all be more spiritually healthy if we received LESS OFTEN, truly being properly prepared to receive AND truly allowing the Eucharist to be the sumit of our Christian life.

When this has been suggested the response has generally been “But if we don’t give out Communion, nobody comes.” We’ve become so conditioned to “getting” something, that unless it’s physical we can’t see its value.

Would that everyone could experience a sung Morning or Evening Prayer. I love the Byzantine chant setting of the intercessions.

 

[MusicMan]

I can’t think of a better place to “readjust” the mindset of the Faithful than to do it via Catholic School upbringing. They should be the first ones to have Morning Prayer instead of a Communion Service if Father isn’t available to say daily Mass for them.

 

[Wayfarer]

There are several types of communion services. The rites are prescribed in “Holy Communion and Worship of the Eucharist Outside Mass” published by the Catholic Book Publishing Co. and the “Sunday Celebration in the Absence of a Priest”, which was recently revised.
One of the benefits of our Catholic faith is that no one – not even priests or bishops-- have to invent their own rites, even though some do.
In our Diocese, we have a two year program of lay formation followed by another 4 months of training to become a commissioned (by the bishop) Leader of Prayer. We can lead many of the liturgies or rites which a Deacon would normally do if available.
We do a weekday Communion service if a pastor or another priest is unavailable, but this is rare. But we regularly do Sunday (SCAP)Services at nursing homes, because priests can’t get there on Sundays. So the residents really appreciate this liturgy, even though it is not a Mass.
Your instincts about possible abuses you’ve seen are very good. You may want to get the smaller book “Holy Communion and Worship … Outside Mass” and then ask your Diocesan Office about norms used in your Diocese.
I would note finally that our Diocesan norms for lay Leaders of Prayer states that under no circumstances are school children to attend communion services in place of a Mass. The concern of course is to avoid confusion with the irreplaceable elements of the Mass performed by a priest.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Rome actually ordered our Cathedral to restore a communion service that they had discontinued, stating that the faithful have a right to receive Eucharist, even daily.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Why would you ever need a weekday communion service?
I have never seen any proponents of this satisfactorily answer that query.

In addition, the idea of a woman saying the words of consecration **could be **grounds for excommunication, probably latae setentiae.

Worrying.

If she was actually intending to attempt to consecrate or celebrate Mass. I initial guess is that she just does not know any better.

 

[Walking_Home]

Hard to believe Rome would order to restore a communion service considering the following:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

1. Particular Celebrations carried out in the Absence of a Priest

[165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of the Eucharist.[271] The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

 

[MusicMan]

There are several types of communion services. The rites are prescribed in “Holy Communion and Worship of the Eucharist Outside Mass” published by the Catholic Book Publishing Co. and the “Sunday Celebration in the Absence of a Priest”, which was recently revised.
One of the benefits of our Catholic faith is that no one – not even priests or bishops-- have to invent their own rites, even though some do.
In our Diocese, we have a two year program of lay formation followed by another 4 months of training to become a commissioned (by the bishop) Leader of Prayer. We can lead many of the liturgies or rites which a Deacon would normally do if available.
We do a weekday Communion service if a pastor or another priest is unavailable, but this is rare. But we regularly do Sunday (SCAP)Services at nursing homes, because priests can’t get there on Sundays. So the residents really appreciate this liturgy, even though it is not a Mass.
Your instincts about possible abuses you’ve seen are very good. You may want to get the smaller book “Holy Communion and Worship … Outside Mass” and then ask your Diocesan Office about norms used in your Diocese.
I would note finally that our Diocesan norms for lay Leaders of Prayer states that under no circumstances are school children to attend communion services in place of a Mass. The concern of course is to avoid confusion with the irreplaceable elements of the Mass performed by a priest.

Perhaps your Bishop would be wiser to start ordaining deacons.

 

[benedictgal]

Rome actually ordered our Cathedral to restore a communion service that they had discontinued, stating that the faithful have a right to receive Eucharist, even daily.

I find this one particularly hard to swallow since, according to Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of theEucharist.271 The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this*** matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.***

Somehow, I don’t think that the Church would be one to contradict one of her own documents, especially on Pope Benedict’s watch.

 

[John_Lilburne]

Well, here is what the liturgical book has on the subject. From the 1973 Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass:
“14. The faithful are to be led to the practice of receiving communion during the actual eucaharistic celebration.
Priests, however, are not to refuse to give communion to the faithful who for a legitimate reason ask for it even outside Mass.”
“16. Communion may be given outside Mass on any day and at any hour. It is proper, however, to schedule the hours for giving communion, with a view to the convenience of the faithful, so that the celebration may take place in a fuller form and with greater spiritual benefit. Nevertheless: …”.

Then it has the exceptions to this: Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

Are more recent documents contradictions of the liturgical book? Or improved interpretations of what it means to “be led to the practice of receiving communion during the actual eucharistic celebration” and “legitimate reason” and “the convenience of the faithful”?

 

[Titus]

If she was actually intending to attempt to consecrate or celebrate Mass. I initial guess is that she just does not know any better.

Not good to come even close to excommunication, though is it? Hardly good practice, what she was doing, anway.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Not good to come even close to excommunication, though is it? Hardly good practice, what she was doing, anway.

This is clearly why the church has said that lay ministers MUST be in on going FORMATION for their ministry. Many have one time training or no training.

 

[benedictgal]

Well, here is what the liturgical book has on the subject. From the 1973 Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass:
“14. The faithful are to be led to the practice of receiving communion during the actual eucaharistic celebration.
Priests, however, are not to refuse to give communion to the faithful who for a legitimate reason ask for it even outside Mass.”
“16. Communion may be given outside Mass on any day and at any hour. It is proper, however, to schedule the hours for giving communion, with a view to the convenience of the faithful, so that the celebration may take place in a fuller form and with greater spiritual benefit. Nevertheless: …”.

Then it has the exceptions to this: Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

Are more recent documents contradictions of the liturgical book? Or improved interpretations of what it means to “be led to the practice of receiving communion during the actual eucharistic celebration” and “legitimate reason” and “the convenience of the faithful”?

John, you are speaking of church documents, though. I seriously doubt that in the case of communion services, Rome would be speaking out of both sides of her mouth, especially since RS is only four years old and not likely to be contradicted any time soon… Remembr, it’s supposed to fix problems, not grandfather them or create new ones (of course, the only ones who wouuld have problems are the ones who are creating and/or perpetuating the abuses).

Our cathedral has Mass every day of the week; on certain days, Mass is celebrated twice a day. So, even if one priest is off, the other one still celebrates Mass.

And, when neither priest is available, a priest from another parish comes over to assist. That’s pretty much standard in our diocese. On those rare occasoins when a communion service is held, it is led by the deacon; but, those are rare.

 

[Wayfarer]

Perhaps your Bishop would be wiser to start ordaining deacons.

As a matter of fact, the bishop (now archbishop in another Diocese) who put together the Leader of Prayer program in our Diocese has brought about a successful resurgence of permanent diaconate training and ordination. And he has personally attracted many seminarians to the priesthood. Archbishop Burke is one of the leading experts in Canon law (as testified to by Dr. Ed Peters, another expert). The Archbishop is clearly a good, conservative, orthodox priest.
But we still don’t have enough priests to say Mass at nursing homes on Sunday mornings. And since Deacons can’t say Mass any more than a lay leader of prayer, I’m not sure how more deacons would help that situation. But I’m all for more deacons. I would be one if I could.

 

[MusicMan]

Sorry, thought you were in the Diocese of Madison. Whoops! My bad. Carry on.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

I find this one particularly hard to swallow since, according to Redemptionis Sacramentum:

Somehow, I don’t think that the Church would be one to contradict one of her own documents, especially on Pope Benedict’s watch.

Then drink some water, because this actually did happen.

Fr. J-Glenn Murray, who is the former director of the office for pastoral liturgy, has spoken publicly about it. In fact, Fr. Murray seemed to indicate that he felt that the Communion service should have been abolished; people were coming to the communion service, receiving, then staying for the mass which occurred a half hour later and receiving again. Of course, one may receive twice in one day, but in this instance, the whole scenario scarcely made sense. Concluding that this service was unncessary, the cathedral abolished it.

Some individuals wrote to the Vatican. This was a case where, as you noted, the diocese felt it was on solid ground based upon the documentation that you have quoted. In fact, no one felt the Vatican would even respond. Everyone was quite surprised when they did, and even more surprised that they asked the diocese to restore the Communion service, citing the right of people to receive Eucharist and fearing that the loss of this service made the Eucharist unavaliable to some.

 

[benedictgal]

Then drink some water, because this actually did happen.

Fr. J-Glenn Murray, who is the former director of the office for pastoral liturgy, has spoken publicly about it. In fact, Fr. Murray seemed to indicate that he felt that the Communion service should have been abolished; people were coming to the communion service, receiving, then staying for the mass which occurred a half hour later and receiving again. Of course, one may receive twice in one day, but in this instance, the whole scenario scarcely made sense. Concluding that this service was unncessary, the cathedral abolished it.

Some individuals wrote to the Vatican. This was a case where, as you noted, the diocese felt it was on solid ground based upon the documentation that you have quoted. In fact, no one felt the Vatican would even respond. Everyone was quite surprised when they did, and even more surprised that they asked the diocese to restore the Communion service, citing the right of people to receive Eucharist and fearing that the loss of this service made the Eucharist unavaliable to some.

But, does such a letter actually exist? It is a very odd thing for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to rule on since it has addressed this matter in RS. Furthermore, could these people not be told that there are other Masses available in other parishes? I know that when our parish doesn’t have Mass, I just drive to another parish or adjust my schedule to go at a later or earlier time. :

Furthermore, couldn’t the Cathedral have just gotten a priest to fill-in on the days when the rector is out? It’s very commonplace in my diocese? I also suspect that is the case in others as well.

PGA, it’s not that I’m doubting what you reported, but, without some sort of something in writing, it just seems rather nebulous. There appears to be more to this.