What is the forum's take on "interfaith" efforts

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hasantas said:
You are so fanatic on your thought. Maybe you are the most true one but you cannot help anyone in that excessive manner.

The excessive love/advocacy for someone/something blind the eyes for faults of lover. And the excessive hostility blind eyes for kindness and fairness of adversary.

Every belief have some true and facts so we cannot deny a belief totaly. We can say that some part of it is wrong. But that does not mean that entirely of it is wrong. So if Islam or any other religion does not accept some part of Christianity then that does not mean those are wrong.

The main difference between ıslam and Christianity is in Trinity. Trinity include the divinity, sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus.

There have been thousand prophets and those had never said anything about Trinity. The Trinity is not declaration of faith in Gospels. But Trinity is a Doctrine of Churc which is established from strained interpretation from Gospels. If trinity was so obvious in Bible and in Quran did not say that is a excessive degree in faith I would believe in. But I can say countless conflicts about trinity. So you must convince me but not to blame me. Salam!
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I already explained why I am of the opinion that Islam is the ultimate heresy. That doesn’t prevent me from loving Muslims -I count several Muslims among my very close friends- and hope that God be merciful with them in the afterlife.

Christianity with “Trinity issues” looks something like Arianism or JW. Islam is an entirely different - and false- religion.

Blessings to you.
 
protestantinca said:
Sure, Jesus knew that people would ignore Him and he was fine with that. What Islam does is different: it does not ignore Him, it distorts completely what He said in ways that explicitly contradict His original message.

I cannot find who exactly said this for the first time, but there is a quote in the Christian tradition that says that Islam is either “the final revelation by God” (the Islamic view) or “the ultimate heresy” (the Christian view).

When talking about the differences between Islam and Judaism you cannot “leave out” the rejection of Jesus by Judaism and the misappropriation of Jesus by Islam since the latter is core to Islam (together with the anointment of Muhammad as the last prophet).

Your profile says you are Hindu and therefore you might not be familiar with the core teachings of Christianity (I don’t say this as disrespect; I have met many people from India and I thought that what is common knowledge over here is also common knowledge over there but I was wrong). Christianity is fundamentally about acknowledging Jesus as the son of God and recognizing His death and resurrection as the ultimate divine sacrifice (basically the content of the Nicene creed). The so called “law” (ie rules for daily life) are subordinate to the contents of the Nicene creed even for Catholics that acknowledge “works” as “means of grace”.

In that regard, that the “rules” of Islam bear some resemblance to the “rules” or Orthodox Judaism is a very minor point (it’s the “surface”, not the “content”). Theologically speaking, Islam does not recognize any Messiah (as Judaism does), only the prophets (making Jesus ones of them) and says that Muhammad is God’s final prophet. That’s the core difference that makes Islam and Judaism be so different. And since Judaism is indifferent to Jesus, it is, in my opinion, a lesser offender to Jesus than Islam.
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Let us summarize your views again:
  • All religions that do not acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God are ‘false’
  • But Judaism is sort of OK because it is indifferent to Jesus, but it is still ‘false’
  • Islam is really ‘false’ because it believes Jesus is a prophet
  • The main difference between Judaism and Islam is the Jewish belief in a Messiah. (BTW have you heard of the Mahdi?)
  • Judaism is sort of OK because it believes in a Messiah even if that is not Jesus, but it is still ‘false’,
Very interesting!
 
PRmerger said:
I see.

Can someone be a “proper Christian” if he affirms the divinity of Christ but denies, say, that baptism saves you?

What about if he denies that Sunday is the Lord’s day but affirms that Christ is divine?

Or if he affirms that Sunday is the Lord’s day but denies that the soul is immortal?

I guess my point is: where is this list of what makes someone a “proper Christian”?

(Please don’t say: it’s found right here: vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_INDEX.HTM

I’d like a list of what we must believe in order to be considered proper. And where this list comes from. And who has the authority to determine if someone is abiding by this list or not.)
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Being Lutheran, I believe that the Bible is supreme and that I don’t need to abide a a “check list” or “formula” decided by the pope. I think that proper Christians are those who confess the Nicene creed (and believe in its implications) because it is a good summary of the biblical account. Now, I say “its implications” because I do not think that it is possible to say that one confesses the Nicene creed and then go to “cherry pick” Jesus message as they see fit (I have in mind the “feel good” people who embrace Jesus message of forgiveness but reject His divinity or that the Law still applies).

The other issues you list are non issues for me. I don’t think that infant baptism is a necessity (even though I agree with the practice) because I doubt God will condemn a child who didn’t have guardians that believe in baptizing children.

By being a proper Christian I don’t mean “being free of sin”, rather, believing and confessing the Christian theology included in the Nicene creed.
 
openmind77 said:
Let us summarize your views again:
  • All religions that do not acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God are ‘false’
  • But Judaism is sort of OK because it is indifferent to Jesus, but it is still ‘false’
  • Islam is really ‘false’ because it believes Jesus is a prophet
  • The main difference between Judaism and Islam is the Jewish belief in a Messiah. (BTW have you heard of the Mahdi?)
  • Judaism is sort of OK because it believes in a Messiah even if that is not Jesus, but it is still ‘false’,
Very interesting!
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Basically. And yes, that means that I believe Hinduism to be a false religion too :).

Theologically the “Mahdi” cannot be confused with the Jewish Messiah. Those who do deeply misunderstand both Islam and Judaism (regardless of whether they are believers in either). And of course, both the Shia and the Sunni Mahdi have no place in Christian theology at all. In fact, neither does Muhammad, whom, as I said, Christianity considers to be the ultimate heretic.
 
PRmerger said:
I see.

Can someone be a “proper Christian” if he affirms the divinity of Christ but denies, say, that baptism saves you?
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Do we look to Protestants to determine who is a “proper Christian”?

Edit: I don’t like to butt-in, and may well be sorry later, but we’ll see. 🙂
 
Peter_J said:
Do we look to Protestants to determine who is a “proper Christian”?

Edit: I don’t like to butt-in, and may well be sorry later, but we’ll see. 🙂
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Not sure where you look to, I can assure you that I do not look to the pope to tell me that I am a proper Christian. His opinion about my faith is about as relevant to me as that of a Muslim Imam who thinks I am a heretic :).
 
Hmmm … I’m not exactly sure whether to say “non-sequitur” or “personal criticism fallacy”. :hmmm:
 
Peter_J said:
Hmmm … I’m not exactly sure whether to say “non-sequitur” or “personal criticism fallacy”. :hmmm:
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The meaning should be pretty obvious Peter. For a new member, a post like his is not exactly going to endear him to folks.
 
PRmerger said:
I think this is a reference to protestaninca’s definition which was those “who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus” are NOT proper Christians.
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Yes, this was where I got the term “Proper” Christians.

Mary.
 
protestantinca said:
Being Lutheran, I believe that the Bible is supreme and that I don’t need to abide a a “check list” or “formula” decided by the pope. I think that proper Christians are those who confess the Nicene creed (and believe in its implications) because it is a good summary of the biblical account.
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Firstly, you do know that the Nicene creed is a “formula” decided by the pope, right?

So in your statement above you are stating 2 contradictory positions. That is: “I don’t need a check list” and “Here’s a check list”.

Secondly, how is it that you are reserving for yourself what you deny in the pope? Why do you get to declare the criteria for Christianhood, but not the pope?
The other issues you list are non issues for me. I don’t think that infant baptism is a necessity (even though I agree with the practice) because I doubt God will condemn a child who didn’t have guardians that believe in baptizing children.
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Fair enough. It’s a nonissue for you.

But who gets to determine what the issues are of import? Who gets to discern that baptism is a non-issue, but the Trinity is?
By being a proper Christian I don’t mean “being free of sin”, rather, believing and confessing the Christian theology included in the Nicene creed.
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Whose Christian theology, though?

And again, why do you get to create this check list but bristle at another person (here, the pope) telling you what this check list is?
 
In my community the Catholic church is very active in the “Interfaith community” and I think it’s very healthy for everyone to participate… in our Interfaith Council we have Muslim, Baha’i, Catholic, various Protestant churches as well as Reformed and Conservative Jewish synagogues, Mormons… I would say the Catholic and Mormons are among the most active.

There was an interfaith Thanksgiving service held at a synagogue and Buddhists and Sikhs participated…
 
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