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commoncents
Guest
Do you have stats to prove that or are you just making it up? Seems made up to me.
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hxcCatholic413
Guest
well I guess its up to me to defend my pro-life position here’s two quotes that should definitely appease to your logic:
“Dred Scott declared that human persons with black skin were not actually human persons, but only 3/5 human. Adolf Hitler and the Nazis decided that human persons who were of Jewish heritage were not actually human persons, but some kind of pest or rodent that needed exterminating. Roe v. Wade pronounced that human persons who were in the first nine months of their human development were not human persons unless their mother decided they were.” - Bryan Kemper
“We know that skin color does not determine the personhood of a human being; they are human no matter what shade their skin is. We know that nationality does not determine the personhood of a human being; they are human not matter where they come from. We should also know that age does not determine the personhood of a human being; they are human from the moment they start living until the day they die”. - Bryan Kemper
…And By the Way it’s scientifically proven that life starts at conception…FTW!
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Ponyguy
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"FaithfulServ23:
I made no particular specification of whose abdication of personal responsibility, or whose total selfishness.
However, I will categorically state that the root cause at the bottom of any defense of abortion is someone’s abdication of personal responsibility along with someone’s total selfishness, along with disrespect for a human life… be it the woman who bears the undesired child, a court, a physician, or someone else who supports her claim to the right to abort.
Every unwanted pregnancy is precipitated with the full understanding that the woman’s willing participative behavior may beget a pregnancy. If you want to dance, you must be prepared to pay the piper. (Please, don’t anyone muddy the water by raising the issue of rape; that is a totally separate topic, not pertinent to this discussion.)
My statement was (and remains) that the reason a person defends abortion is due to “Simple abdication of personal responsibility along with total selfishness.”
I made no particular specification of whose abdication of personal responsibility, or whose total selfishness.
However, I will categorically state that the root cause at the bottom of any defense of abortion is someone’s abdication of personal responsibility along with someone’s total selfishness, along with disrespect for a human life… be it the woman who bears the undesired child, a court, a physician, or someone else who supports her claim to the right to abort.
Every unwanted pregnancy is precipitated with the full understanding that the woman’s willing participative behavior may beget a pregnancy. If you want to dance, you must be prepared to pay the piper. (Please, don’t anyone muddy the water by raising the issue of rape; that is a totally separate topic, not pertinent to this discussion.)
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teachccd
Guest
It seems like our atheist friend gave up once he was bombarded with the truth. Let us keep this person in our prayers. 
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dmelosi
Guest
I never could understand why people think it is ok to kill a baby.
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TouchedByHost
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Newbie2
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I’d agree. Most if not all pro-abortion folks, methinks, wouldn’t consider infanticide moral if dealing with an otherwise healthy baby born a month ago.
Well, perhaps LifeisAbsurd is giving some insight into the OP’s question.
Perhaps. There may not be a single fundamental reason for any one person. But there has to be a reason why one an accept abortion…on a fundamental level.
i.e. Someone may defend another or their own “right” to make that choice to abort their baby. But based on what? What is the principle on which they base this “right”?
They may not know or acknowledge that there is a reason why they believe this way, but there is always a basis for one’s belief.
I’m not sure “hyprcrite” is the ***best ***term here. It’s appropriate to some degree, butI know there’s a better word for this. Of course, I can’t think of it right now.
I understand what you’re saying and agree, T, but one what about a man supporting abortion? He could never have one himself, but he and his wife might never consider one. Would he be a hypocrite as well? (again, I can’t think of a more appropriate term but I know one is out there:banghead: )
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lizaanne
Guest
Oh this is easy - because they want sex without consequences. If they were being responsible about sex, abortion and contraception would not be needed. But people want their sex without consequences, and sadly abortion has to be there to bail them out.
~Liza
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TouchedByHost
Guest
There are people who defend abortion just in case of rape.
Abortion prohibition is unfair for rape victims, but fair for the unborn murder victims.
Rape is a very grave sin but murder is gravest as it totally destroys victim and sinner as well.
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bjryman
Guest
I am a man…so take my comment automatically within that context. My wife is one devoted Christian who belives in women’s choice but would not force them to a pro-life mindset.
We have one beautiful 10 year old grandchild born out of wedlock. I remember clear as day when my son informed us that his girlfriend was pregnant. (both were 25 years old). They were breaking up and neither had the funds to raise a child. Here’s what we did: we offered all the support we could, help to pay for daycare and doctors, personal commitment to be there, etc.
What we DID NOT do was tell them not to have an abortion. Why? We personally believe that Jesus wants us to be responsible in raising a family…live within our means…and within our ability to cope. Much of the world’s problem today is that the family commitment both in size and caretaking has deteriorated into chaos for many children.
We are, as was stated in other posts, a bunch of cells for sure. In the total commitment we make to raising a family responsibly, we don’t believe God has set the “from conception” metric as a mandate measurement. But, we also believe, if one does not make the decision immediately, then by default they have committed themselves to nuturing the developing baby.
Ok…there is one opinion. Start calling us names, saying how selfish we are, etc. etc. The end in this case is that there has never been an abortion in our extended family. We continue to stand by the belief that the decision is simply not as straightforward as the Church’s teaching about “from conception”.
…and with that folks, my wife and I are ready to stand in front of Jesus on the last day and be judged for our total commitment to raising a family properly.
Peace of Christ to you all
bruce
We have one beautiful 10 year old grandchild born out of wedlock. I remember clear as day when my son informed us that his girlfriend was pregnant. (both were 25 years old). They were breaking up and neither had the funds to raise a child. Here’s what we did: we offered all the support we could, help to pay for daycare and doctors, personal commitment to be there, etc.
What we DID NOT do was tell them not to have an abortion. Why? We personally believe that Jesus wants us to be responsible in raising a family…live within our means…and within our ability to cope. Much of the world’s problem today is that the family commitment both in size and caretaking has deteriorated into chaos for many children.
We are, as was stated in other posts, a bunch of cells for sure. In the total commitment we make to raising a family responsibly, we don’t believe God has set the “from conception” metric as a mandate measurement. But, we also believe, if one does not make the decision immediately, then by default they have committed themselves to nuturing the developing baby.
Ok…there is one opinion. Start calling us names, saying how selfish we are, etc. etc. The end in this case is that there has never been an abortion in our extended family. We continue to stand by the belief that the decision is simply not as straightforward as the Church’s teaching about “from conception”.
…and with that folks, my wife and I are ready to stand in front of Jesus on the last day and be judged for our total commitment to raising a family properly.
Peace of Christ to you all
bruce
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dmelosi
Guest
I wonder if people would feel the same way if when a person used the word abortion, they substituted “kill a human being” or maybe the better substitution would be “kill a servant of God”. Those are the 2 terms that God gives us for what some call “fetuses” or a group of cells.
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teachccd
Guest
No, don’t hurt your head over this!I’m not sure “hyprcrite” is the ***best ***term here. It’s appropriate to some degree, butI know there’s a better word for this. Of course, I can’t think of it right now.
:banghead: )
There might be a better term but all I am saying is that you cannot be tolerant when it comes to human life. If a woman or man would never find murdering a fetus acceptable then that woman or man cannot support a woman who would choose to do so. It’s not like the previous analogy where I might not want to play a banjo but would support my friend playing one. This is a highly sensitive moral issue and cannot be compared to morally neutral issues.So, you are probably correct in my poor judgement in verbiage but I stand tall behind the message. Anyone, man or woman, who supports the loss of life through abortion is exhibiting their lack of moral conviction regardless of what they would choose for themselves. God bless and for heavens sake stop pounding your head. It hurts to watch!
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lizaanne
Guest
But this is still sex without consequences. I never said the sex had to be nice. If sex happens (in whatever form or circumstance) the possibility of a child is there. There are many many people in this world who are the products of rape. Living healthy happy and productive lives of their own, with families of their own. It is because society can not accept the consequences of sex (forced or unforced) that we have abortion.
It’s all about inconvenience. The whole life issue - from conception to natural death. If the person in question (unborn child, sick person, old person) is not convenient, society finds a way do to away with them. Don’t put a lot of emotion laden words around it - it all comes down to convenience. It is not convenient to have a child of rape, because it will be too hard (for whatever reason, the reason is irrelevant). It is not convenient to have that baby with one’s husband (for whatever reason, the reason is irrelevant). It is not convenient to keep that person on life support (for whatever reason, the reason is irrelevant). So we find a way to do away with the human person who makes our lives complicated.
People don’t like their lives to be complicated. So they get rid of the inconvenience.
There is no reason to make it more complicated with shades of gray of this circumstance and that because this is a black and white issue. We don’t kill human beings to make our lives more comfortable and convenient. Period.
Sadly - far too many in society are all to ready to do just that.
~Liza
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bjryman
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Be careful here…God does not give us those definitions for fetuses at all…anywhere, at anytime. If you mean to say that our Church has provided us with that interpretation, and that the Mother Church is absolutely infallible in all that it teaches…then fine your logic applies. Now you can have a more focused, rational dialog about interpretative teaching and perhaps come a bit closer to the underlying issues that drive differning views on hot topics like artificial contraception and early term abortion versus responsible living.
We all need to remember not to insert phrases or words as God given facts when they are man made interpretation.
Jesus, without a doubt instructed us how to teach and nuture the little ones that were already in this world…absolutely no doubt about that.
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bjryman
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Some do, you’re right. Others are basically ignorant in terms of human sexuality and responsible contraception. But to state unequvically that they want sex withou consequences is perhaps simplifying the issue a bit much.
By the way, you seem to be placing contraception and abortion in the same category in your note., If that is not your intention, then ignore my next statement. Contraception is the most responsible option for responsible, caring married couples to manage the one part of their vocation (procreation) while nuturing the rest of their vocation (total, physical and emotional commitment to one another).
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dmelosi
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Did I misinterpret your earlier post that you are pro choice? Isn’t your label Catholic?
It is very clear in the CCC and would you like for me to point you to biblical versus? I guess I am not sure what your comment means about God not giving us those definitions. Are you implying the church is wrong about abortion?
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beafedor
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Can I try to rephrase what you both are trying to say? Some people will never choose abortion for themselves because deep down they feel that it’s bloody and traumatizing and there is something wrong with it. At the same time, if one of their unwed, unemployed friend’s birth control fails and she becomes pregnant, they’ll be the first to make the appointment at the closest abortion facility. Why? Because they don’t want to deal with their friends emotional/physical/monetary issues and especially not baby sitting the brat after it’s born. So the quick fix to the problem pregnancy is the good old “you don’t have to keep it” solution so they don’t have to deal with somebody else’s problems. Our society is making this so easy with all the lies and inaccurate information that the abortion industry provides: *“it” is just like a ball of cotton, imagine a cup of coleslaw, it won’t hurt, it’s going to make you “unpregnant”, it’s like nothing happened, you can resume a normal life after the procedure, it’s the best solution for you… *No, don’t hurt your head over this!
So, you are probably correct in my poor judgement in verbiage but I stand tall behind the message. Anyone, man or woman, who supports the loss of life through abortion is exhibiting their lack of moral conviction regardless of what they would choose for themselves. God bless and for heavens sake stop pounding your head. It hurts to watch!
Usually I tell these people:“If abortion is not good enough for you, why would it be good for someone else?”
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rmartensjr
Guest
Bruce, I pray that you accept the Church’s teaching before you “stand in front of Jesus on the last day”, for He is a just judge and you are putting your everlasting soul in peril.
Such is the case for many “cafeteria Catholics”.
BTW, my wife and I have 8 children. I’m curious what your thoughts are on that.
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Newbie2
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No, not poor judgment at all…and I’m with you 100% on the message.No, don’t hurt your head over this!
So, you are probably correct in my poor judgement in verbiage but I stand tall behind the message. Anyone, man or woman, who supports the loss of life through abortion is exhibiting their lack of moral conviction regardless of what they would choose for themselves. God bless and for heavens sake stop pounding your head. It hurts to watch!
Perhaps it’s a matter of not standing behind one’s convictions…being guilty of situational morality.
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mark_a
Guest
This is just my opinion, I have no “proof” or links to back me up, but it seems to me that our 2.2-children-per-first-marriage culture of selfishness is the cause of the demise of the family and consequently “the chaos for many children.”
Immediately?? Women may not know for weeks, and there have been cases where overweight women did not know until they were in labor.
Congratulations, but how do you know that? Raising kids in a pro-abort environment doesn’t guarantee they would tell you any more than the opposite situation… Privacy might be their “choice” so to speak.
By straightforward, do you mean “easy”?
One can’t properly raise a kid one kill’s.
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