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2nd_Adam
Guest
Sure, we can discuss this kind of stuff, but not on the gospel thread. I still think this stuff belongs on an authority thread.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
What do we do as Christians?I’m glad I have managed to not offend you with my comments!
Except within the context of a “works salvation” mentality (ie Jewish, Muslim) I dont think its particularly useful to debate such issues. Certainly not among Christians. It is clear that God “saved us - not because of any righteous deeds, but because of his love through the bath of rebirth and renewal in the Holy Spirit”. The question that I believe needs to be answered clearly in the context of this thread is, “Now that I have
been regenerated, what must I do, or avoid doing to remain united to Christ so that when I die I will be judged “a good and faithful servant” and enter Heaven”? This is the fundamental divide within Christianity: Now that I have repented and have been baptized and have received the gift of the Holy Spirit, is there anything I must do to ensure my eternal reward (Heaven)? Is there anything I must avoid doing? Or, is it “all God” and nothing I do matters?
What say you?
Peace be with you!
By the grace of God and through the power of the Spirit, our goal should be to glorify God and enjoy Him forever as Christians.
We can also use the two greatest commandments to see how we are doing. And when we fall short, we should repent and have faith in the gospel.
B
bookgirl32
Guest
I think it belongs just fine here. We’re speaking about what we believe the “Gospel” to be. We’ve already established that just reading the verses does not mean we will necessarily get the correct interpretation. So that directly affects what the Gospel itself is. So, will you answer the question?
C
Carlan
Guest
yes, but with the grace of God and the power of the HolySpirit, What should we actually do ?
yes , and should we not also seek reconciliation with the Church and the bretheran we sin against? Carlan
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Sorry, I don’t want to detract from the gospel, so I will try to only respond to gospel related issues from my perspective. The invitation is always there to discuss authority on another thread.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
What do we do? If you go back to the two greatest commandments stated by Jesus, that is what we do to the glory of God.
B
bookgirl32
Guest
Or you really just don’t want to answer the question.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Sure I do, but not on the gospel thread.Or you really just don’t want to answer the question.
C
clmowry
Guest
And yet we have a wide variety of interpretations of the same body of scripture.
So either you must hold that not all Christians actually are led to truth by the Holy Spirit.
Or that the Holy Spirit leads different Christians to different truths.
When presented with diametrically opposed interpretations somebody’s “gospel” must be wrong.
How does the individual Christian know which group he/she is in?
Chuck
P
Philthy
Guest
This is a good start at articulating this aspect of the Gospel. Would I be brash in suggesting that it would be helpful to clarify the bolded phrase?
How do we “glorify God” exactly?
Is it something we do through the exercise of our will? Is it something we can choose -through the exercise of our will - not to do?
Is there a consequence for failing to do so?
2ndAdam:
Good advice! Perhaps it should be stated simply that loving God and loving neighbor as self are part of the Gospel, no? Maybe we should start a list of the basics that we agree on as “the Gospel”?? And add to it as we go along…
2ndAdam:
This is very interesting, and a little confusing. I thought we were discussing someone who already has faith. Does this mean that “falling short” is equivalent to lacking faith???
Peace be with you!
G
guanophore
Guest
Yes, but Catholics beleive the HS does not reveal things to individuals that are in opposition to what He has already revealed to the Church, built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets.
G
guanophore
Guest
No, probably not. Although we find the scriptures authoritative, because they are inspired and inerrant, Catholics know that the Scriptures do not wield authority, as that is an activity that belongs to persons, not writings, however Holy. The effort to make Scripture “the final authority” is forcing a role upon it that it cannot fulfill. In order to carry authority, one must have will, discernment, and the ability to be held accountable for their actions (responsibility). These are qualities belonging to persons.
The qualifications to be an Apostle could no longer be met. The authority and duties of the Apostles were passed on to the bishops.
You are creating a false dichotomy. Those who are charged to keep the doctrine of the Church fulfill their duties by using the authoritative scriptures. They are profitable for teaching and training, and equipping the saints. These duties were given to people by Christ, and they trained others who could also teach.
G
guanophore
Guest
See? Good news!
Is it possible for some to reject God’s purpose for themselves?
Is it possible that some people do not consider themselves worthy of salvation, and therefore, do not chose it?
P
Philthy
Guest
I hope the questions posed above, asked in an attempt at genuine dialogue, haven’t proven too difficult to answer. Inquiring minds want to know…and they have a right to know as well.
Z
zerinus
Guest
This is a long thread, and it would take too long for me to read through it all, so forgive me if I have missed something important. This question has come up several times on CAF before, and I have already had to reply to it more than once recently, so I have posted a message on my Blog that answers that question from a Mormon perspective. You can read it here. Tell us what you think, and how it compares with the Catholic definition of the gospel.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
That’s okay…I think we know all about Mormonism that we need to know, and my question was directed at monotheists.
Isaiah 44:8
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."
Z
zerinus
Guest
Don’t be a hypocrite. Your question was addressed to “Catholics and non-Catholics”—and Mormons are monotheists.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Hypocrite?
1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
How exactly am I being a hypocrite?
My OP was actually intended for Catholics and Protestants (who I sometimes call non-Catholics for the sake of those Baptists who deny being Protestants
) though I would not mind hearing from Eastern Orthodox. These are Christian traditions.It did not occur to me to be more precise than this because non-Christians such as JW’s, Mormons and Muslims rarely seem to venture outside the “Non-Catholic Religions” subforum and into this Apologetics section.
However, since you’re here, I have no problems telling you that since your church claims that you may be god of your own planet some day (if all goes well according to your temple rituals, etc.), then it stands to reason that you and the Father of this planet will be two different gods. Assuming that other good Mormons have achieved or will also achieve this status, there must already be or will at some point be LOTS of gods. That is the simple definition of polytheism.
If you want to claim to be a henotheist instead, fine. But that is just a fancy name for polytheism, isn’t it?
henotheism -
1.the worship of a particular god, as by a family or tribe, without disbelieving in the existence of others.
R
Rescued_by_mary
Guest
Gentlemen;
A human Christ must have a human mother, I think is what I’m saying.
The wonder of the sacrament of Mass is illustrated in this raw physical humanity, as Jesus is cut from the flesh of Mary. If we are the body of Christ, and HE is the head, than Mary is the neck; and oh, how lovely she is! Beautiful to behold, caressed only by Christ!
God has chosen to reveal something about Himself through His creation of man and woman, and what could that be? God has chosen to reveal his Trinitarian nature through the Holy Family. Consider with me all the fascination and dangerous power of womanliness we experience in considering the Incarnation.
Oh Mary, my mother, your earthliness in the drama of redemption; is it surpassed by your role as Queen of the Cosmos?
God could not contain Himself when He thought of Mary. His heart, was so filled with the joy of expectancy for a world He would set out to love, that He could not resist anymore, and so – In the beginning…
If the bread and the wine are the Body and Blood of Christ – then Mary is the Chalice. How can we receive Communion, without embracing Mary? For it was her womb that contained Him, and it was Mary from whom He received His flesh.
Who was this Mary? She was female activist; a scheming adventuress, who in the words of Bernardino of Siena (1380 – 1444), ‘seduced, deceived, and I might even say wounded God, with I do not know what caresses and promises’, that she might secure humanity’s salvation.
Sola Scriptura? How about Solo Faith-Sura! For in her unwavering faith alone, was poised the remaining faith of all of humanity, as Christ’s lifeless body hung on a cross, before Mary.
Oh, Immaculate Heart of Mary, I pray thee, petition the Sacred Heart of thy Divine Son, that I may fine grace in His sight, and be converted.
RbM
A human Christ must have a human mother, I think is what I’m saying.
The wonder of the sacrament of Mass is illustrated in this raw physical humanity, as Jesus is cut from the flesh of Mary. If we are the body of Christ, and HE is the head, than Mary is the neck; and oh, how lovely she is! Beautiful to behold, caressed only by Christ!
God has chosen to reveal something about Himself through His creation of man and woman, and what could that be? God has chosen to reveal his Trinitarian nature through the Holy Family. Consider with me all the fascination and dangerous power of womanliness we experience in considering the Incarnation.
Oh Mary, my mother, your earthliness in the drama of redemption; is it surpassed by your role as Queen of the Cosmos?
God could not contain Himself when He thought of Mary. His heart, was so filled with the joy of expectancy for a world He would set out to love, that He could not resist anymore, and so – In the beginning…
If the bread and the wine are the Body and Blood of Christ – then Mary is the Chalice. How can we receive Communion, without embracing Mary? For it was her womb that contained Him, and it was Mary from whom He received His flesh.
Who was this Mary? She was female activist; a scheming adventuress, who in the words of Bernardino of Siena (1380 – 1444), ‘seduced, deceived, and I might even say wounded God, with I do not know what caresses and promises’, that she might secure humanity’s salvation.
Sola Scriptura? How about Solo Faith-Sura! For in her unwavering faith alone, was poised the remaining faith of all of humanity, as Christ’s lifeless body hung on a cross, before Mary.
Oh, Immaculate Heart of Mary, I pray thee, petition the Sacred Heart of thy Divine Son, that I may fine grace in His sight, and be converted.
RbM
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I will enjoy watching my Catholic brother pound on my Mormon friend for awhile. Right on Catholic brother in the Lord! BTW Zee, we love you and want you to come to know our Triune God through the historic living Jesus Christ too! If you convert, I really don’t care if you become Catholic or Reformed.Hypocrite?
1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
How exactly am I being a hypocrite?
My OP was actually intended for Catholics and Protestants (who I sometimes call non-Catholics for the sake of those Baptists who deny being Protestants
It did not occur to me to be more precise than this because non-Christians such as JW’s, Mormons and Muslims rarely seem to venture outside the “Non-Catholic Religions” subforum and into this Apologetics section.
However, since you’re here, I have no problems telling you that since your church claims that you may be god of your own planet some day (if all goes well according to your temple rituals, etc.), then it stands to reason that you and the Father of this planet will be two different gods. Assuming that other good Mormons have achieved or will also achieve this status, there must already be or will at some point be LOTS of gods. That is the simple definition of polytheism.
If you want to claim to be a henotheist instead, fine. But that is just a fancy name for polytheism, isn’t it?
henotheism -
1.the worship of a particular god, as by a family or tribe, without disbelieving in the existence of others.
:slapfight::nunchuk:- Status