What is the Gospel?

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And on what basis do you make this claim, Tweety?

What is it you are “protected” from ?

Why do you need protection?

How come only you are protected, and others are not?

What must someone do to get to the same special status you have?
I make this claim because I know that the HS helps me to understand what I read!
Protection from being led astray!
I didn’t say that I am the only one protected! You have made this something I did not say. Anyone can have the HS if they ask!
Pray and ask!
 
I make this claim because I know that the HS helps me to understand what I read!
Protection from being led astray!
I didn’t say that I am the only one protected! You have made this something I did not say. Anyone can have the HS if they ask!
Pray and ask!
Tweety-

Does the Holy Spirit protect you from misunderstanding the scriptures? IOW, are your interpretations without error?

And given the subjective nature of such things, how would you know if they weren’t?

Who do you check with? 🤷
 
I’ll keep this short and sweet…

No apostasy, no restoration. No restoration, no Mormonism.
Maybe; but that is the subject of another thread. I responded to this thread in relation to the subject of this thread—which is how Catholics and non-Catholics understand the meaning of the gospel. The Apostasy has nothing to do with that. Why are you so strenuously avoiding the discussion of that subject, and instead trying to change it to something else?
PS - I followed the link to your blog. I copied everything you wrote in the entry “Apostasy and Restoration” into a Word document and coverted it to Arial 10pt. It’s eight, single-spaced pages.
I am glad you did. I hope you will study it carefully, and if you have serious objections you will bring it along (in the proper thread), and we will discuss it.
You introduced your blog with the following:

“This Blog is dedicated to addressing frequent questions that have arisen during my discussions about LDS doctrine with non-LDS on Christian discussion boards on the Internet. The intent is to save me the trouble of having to answer repeat questions…”

Now, if you feel the need to provide thorough answers to questions that you run across, why can’t I? Like me, you obviously feel that it is important to address these matters in detail.

Why the double-standard? 🤷
The main objection I suppose was not the detailed comment, but the change of subject. I didn’t join this thread to discuss the Apostasy. I have already discussed that subject on different occasions so many times that I have got bored with it. That is why I wrote that Blog post, to avoid having to repeat the same answers all over again. I am not afraid of discussing the Apostasy if that is what you are really interested in; but that is not what I joined this thread for to do.

P.S. I have just gone back and read your detailed replies to my earlier post, and I think that most of them have already been answered in my Blog post. After you have read that, if you are still interested in discussing the Apostasy further, I am willing to discuss it with you.
 
I make this claim because I know that the HS helps me to understand what I read!
Protection from being led astray!
I didn’t say that I am the only one protected! You have made this something I did not say. Anyone can have the HS if they ask!
What about all those heretics who asked for the Holy Spirit and even thought that they had it, and then went on to establish heretical churches and heretical organizations, while firmly convinced that the Holy Spirit was with them? 🤷
 
Maybe; but that is the subject of another thread. I responded to this thread in relation to the subject of this thread—which is how Catholics and non-Catholics understand the meaning of the gospel. The Apostasy has nothing to do with that. Why are you so strenuously avoiding the discussion of that subject, and instead trying to change it to something else?
As I said before, I have no real interest in “another gospel”.
I am glad you did. I hope you will study it carefully, and if you have serious objections you will bring it along (in the proper thread), and we will discuss it.
I have read it, and I was amazed by the internal inconsistencies and obvious errors. Have you not been corrected on these matters previously? 🤷

I also contacted a moderator to determine whether I have permission to quote from your blog in order to refute it. Unfortunately, there is concern over copyright violations, so I cannot quote from your site.

If you choose to do so, I would want to go through it slowly and carefully in order to completely dismantle your presentation. At the same time, I am asking myself whether this is really a good use of my time…just being honest here. However, I might take it on for the benefit of lurking LDS who would benefit from hearing the truth.
The main objection I suppose was not the detailed comment, but the change of subject. I didn’t join this thread to discuss the Apostasy. I have already discussed that subject on different occasions so many times that I have got bored with it. That is why I wrote that Blog post, to avoid having to repeat the same answers all over again. I am not afraid of discussing the Apostasy if that is what you are really interested in; but that is not what I joined this thread for to do.
And yet, you took me to task for doing what you yourself have grown weary of…providing thorough answers to complex questions. Can you say, “double-standard?”
P.S. I have just gone back and read your detailed replies to my earlier post, and I think that most of them have already been answered in my Blog post. After you have read that, if you are still interested in discussing the Apostasy further, I am willing to discuss it with you.
As I said, I read your blog, and I was unimpressed. I’ll give you credit for identifying the issues…you were fair about that. The problem is that your answers were insufficient to prove your case.
 
What about all those heretics who asked for the Holy Spirit and even thought that they had it, and then went on to establish heretical churches and heretical organizations, while firmly convinced that the Holy Spirit was with them?
As Patrick Madrid said, “Heresy always comes wrapped in Bible verses.”
 
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Randy_Carson:
As I said before, I have no real interest in “another gospel”.

I think what that really means is that you the Mormon definition of the gospel found in the Book of Mormon and other LDS scriptures are so good that you have no criticism to bring against it.
I have read it, and I was amazed by the internal inconsistencies and obvious errors. Have you not been corrected on these matters previously? 🤷
:eek:
I also contacted a moderator to determine whether I have permission to quote from your blog in order to refute it. Unfortunately, there is concern over copyright violations, so I cannot quote from your site.
There are no copyright issues involved. I quote from anywhere I like on the Internet, and so can you. That is the beauty of the Internet. Just don’t try to make commercial use of it.
If you choose to do so, I would want to go through it slowly and carefully in order to completely dismantle your presentation. At the same time, I am asking myself whether this is really a good use of my time…just being honest here. However, I might take it on for the benefit of lurking LDS who would benefit from hearing the truth.
I am sure.
As I said, I read your blog, and I was unimpressed. I’ll give you credit for identifying the issues…you were fair about that. The problem is that your answers were insufficient to prove your case.
I was able to identify the issues because I have debated them with Catholics (and Protestants) for years, and I know all the arguments.
 
Of course I love Mary, the blessed mother of Jesus. Why wouldn’t I?
Just wondering, because Joe Smith doesn’t say much about her, you know.

What do you know about Mary. How do you show your love for her?

Mormonism is more like a batchelor pad than a family, really - there’s no Mother…
 
I think what that really means is that you the Mormon definition of the gospel found in the Book of Mormon and other LDS scriptures are so good that you have no criticism to bring against it.
If that were the case, why wouldn’t I become Mormon? Obviously, the opposite is true.
There are no copyright issues involved. I quote from anywhere I like on the Internet, and so can you. That is the beauty of the Internet. Just don’t try to make commercial use of it.
I’m just telling you what the mod told me. I have to play by the rules.
I was able to identify the issues because I have debated them with Catholics (and Protestants) for years, and I know all the arguments.
That is understandable. The objections to Mormonism are easily discernable for those who are not Mormon. I don’t doubt that they come up again and again.
 
Just wondering, because Joe Smith doesn’t say much about her, you know.

What do you know about Mary. How do you show your love for her?

Mormonism is more like a batchelor pad than a family, really - there’s no Mother…
Well, we don’t worship Mary or pray to Mary. We don’t attribute any kind of Mediatrix or Co-Redemptrix role to Mary. We don’t believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. But we don’t have to do any of that in order to revere Mary as a saintly woman occupying a special place by virtue of her being the mother of the Son of God. The Book of Mormon makes special mention of Mary in these words:

1 Nephi 11:

14 And it came to pass that I saw the heavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou?
15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.
16 And he said unto me: Knowest thou the condescension of God?
17 And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.
18 And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.
19 And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.
21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! . . .
 
Well, we don’t worship Mary or pray to Mary. We don’t attribute any kind of Mediatrix or Co-Redemptrix role to Mary. We don’t believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. But we don’t have to do any of that in order to revere Mary as a saintly woman occupying a special place by virtue of her being the mother of the Son of God.

O.K. Zerinus - I see you have told me all the things that you don’t do, but what do you do?

What ‘do’ you do to show your love for our Blessed Mother?

One cannot consider Christology without being led to consider Mariology as well. All of the Church’s doctrines concerning Mary are a result of attempting to express Her understanding of the Person of Christ.

Protestants mormons and mohammadins all have this in common - they reject Mary as the Mother of God. Their incubatorism is really woefully inadecuate in explaining the incarnation.

He who does not have Mary as his Mother - does not have God as his Father.
 
zerinus;5956616:
Well, we don’t worship Mary or pray to Mary. We don’t attribute any kind of Mediatrix or Co-Redemptrix role to Mary. We don’t believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. But we don’t have to do any of that in order to revere Mary as a saintly woman occupying a special place by virtue of her being the mother of the Son of God.
O.K. Zerinus - I see you have told me all the things that you don’t do, but what do you do?

What ‘do’ you do to show your love for our Blessed Mother?

One cannot consider Christology without being led to consider Mariology as well. All of the Church’s doctrines concerning Mary are a result of attempting to express Her understanding of the Person of Christ.

Protestants mormons and mohammadins all have this in common - they reject Mary as the Mother of God. Their incubatorism is really woefully inadecuate in explaining the incarnation.

He who does not have Mary as his Mother - does not have God as his Father.

Wrong, Protestants do not reject Mary, I know I was one.
 
O.K. Zerinus - I see you have told me all the things that you don’t do, but what do you do?

What ‘do’ you do to show your love for our Blessed Mother?
Perhaps it would be more helpful if you told us what you think we should be doing.
One cannot consider Christology without being led to consider Mariology as well. All of the Church’s doctrines concerning Mary are a result of attempting to express Her understanding of the Person of Christ.
I don’t really understand that, you have to explain. But one thing I do admit—Mormonism does not have a “Mariology”. To us Mary is no different from any other woman, apart from a special place she occupies by virtue of her bing the mother of Jesus.
Protestants mormons and mohammadins all have this in common - they reject Mary as the Mother of God. Their incubatorism is really woefully inadecuate in explaining the incarnation.
We don’t. We see Mary was the mother of the Son of God—who was indeed God—therefore she has a special place by virtue of that appointment.
He who does not have Mary as his Mother - does not have God as his Father.
Sorry, but that just doesn’t make any sense to me.
 
Perhaps it would be more helpful if you told us what you think we should be doing.
For example, people celebrate the 4th of July with fireworks and various games, picnics, etc. For Presidents’ Day, speeches are made, people get the day off from work, and so on. What do you do for Mary’s birthday, on September 8th? Or else do you celebrate the Annunciation, on March 25th, in any way?

Stuff like that. Nobody’s asking that you worship her, or do anything for her that you wouldn’t do for other mere humans, such as George Washington or Abraham Lincoln, or even your own children, on their birthdays.

Are there any days that you recognize in her honour, or any celebrations where the people are reminded of her singular contributions to the human race?
 
For example, people celebrate the 4th of July with fireworks and various games, picnics, etc. For Presidents’ Day, speeches are made, people get the day off from work, and so on. What do you do for Mary’s birthday, on September 8th? Or else do you celebrate the Annunciation, on March 25th, in any way?

Stuff like that. Nobody’s asking that you worship her, or do anything for her that you wouldn’t do for other mere humans, such as George Washington or Abraham Lincoln, or even your own children, on their birthdays.

Are there any days that you recognize in her honour, or any celebrations where the people are reminded of her singular contributions to the human race?
We don’t do that for Peter or John either, but we revere them as much. But on the other hand, when we celebrate the birth of Jesus at Christmas, put on a nativity play, or sing Christmas carols, we also celebrate the life of Mary in conjunction with birth of her Son Jesus.
 
tweetymom;5961018:
Nobody “rejects” Mary, even the Muslims don’t.
I didn’t say that they reject Mary. I said that they reject her as the Mother of God.

A proper understanding of the Person of Christ leads the theologian to see Mary for who she realy is. This, the protestants do not have. They reject Mary, as do the mormons and the jews and the mohammadians also. Only the Pope has the Truth of the Gospel my friend.
 
I don’t really understand that, you have to explain. But one thing I do admit—Mormonism does not have a “Mariology”. To us Mary is no different from any other woman, apart from a special place she occupies by virtue of her bing the mother of Jesus

We don’t. We see Mary was the mother of the Son of God—who was indeed God—therefore she has a special place by virtue of that appointment.

Here, you have described the theology of the protestants to a T.
 
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