What is the Gospel?

[guanophore]

Where’s the post that I was addressing?

He’s certainly not talking about searching the NT to find life. Jesus instituted the New Covenant but, if anything in the passage you quoted, He’s instructing us that no scripture searching is sufficient.

Hey brother,

Of course I am in complete agreement that both the OT and NT point to the person and work of Jesus Christ for life!. You know that this has always been what I believed and posted from the very beginning at Catholic Answers. I have no idea what you are referencing my quote from; therefore, it appears to be a distortion of what I posted in it’s proper context.

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. - John 5

fhansen noted that you have tried to replace the Person of Christ with the Scriptures. Your response to that observation is that it is a 'low view of scripture". On the contrary, you will find that Catholic have a very high view of scripture. So high, that we do not try to force the scripture into roles it was never intended to play.

 

[guanophore]

In contrast, when my dear Arminian Protestant siblings hear that Reformed Christians believe that regeneration comes before faith, they get bent out of shape like Gumby and Pokee.Regeneration comes before faith!

That is because they recognize the Apostolic Truth that the HS does not save people against, or apart from, their will. The notion that regeneration comes before faith is a significant departure from the what the Apostles believed and taugtht.

 

[guanophore]

The words quickened by grace is similar to the Reformed view of being quickened by the Holy Spirit. Maybe this word quickened is King James language?

Indeed it is.

Arminian Protestant Christians don’t really believe that God the Holy Spirit quickens us to regeneration. I believe they would say that the Spirit woos all mankind to Christ in a less effectual way.

I think you are mistaken 2nd. The Arminians do believe that the HS regenerates us. They accep the Apostolic teaching of wooing, or drawing grace. There is nothing “ineffectual” about God’s grace, 2nd. Some choose not to respond to it. That does not make the grace insufficient.

 

[guanophore]

Except within the context of a “works salvation” mentality (ie Jewish, Muslim)

I don’t think this is a fair representation of the Jewish and Muslim faiths. Jews were saved by grace, through faith, before Christ came. As Paul wrote, a true Jew is one who is a Jew inwardly, by which he means that one believes he is saved by grace, through faith, and not of works.

I am not as competent to speak about Muslims, but I know there are Muslims who believe that they are saved by the faith of Abraham, and not of works.

It is clear that God “saved us - not because of any righteous deeds, but because of his love through the bath of rebirth and renewal in the Holy Spirit”.

If you believe this, then you should also be able to accept that God can save Jew and Muslims the same way.

Or, is it "all God" and nothing I do matters?

This is the connotation of the word “monergism”.

 

[zerinus]

The mormom church is all about reestablishing the apostoloic sucession that was lost.

I agree.

Thomas Jefferson bemoaned the fact, as he looked around, that there was no true authority in the church.

So did many others. He wasn’t the only one.

This is what happens when we reject the Pope.

I wouldn’t say so. Joseph Smith didn’t start off by “rejecting the Pope”. He was just a 14 year old boy who was confsed by all the contending churches (all of them Protestant) and wanted to know which one was right. He didn’t know whether the Pope was right or not. He wanted to know what church to join. It was the Lord that then told him that none of the churches were right, and that he shouldn’t join any of them.

The reformers suceeded in only deforming christianity.

I agree.

Joe Smith invented his own.

I disagree! He received his own.

It’s not suprissing that he came up with something that had similiarities with the Catholic Church.

True; but not for the reasons that you are thinking.

It all hinges on those golden tablets, doesn’t it?

It does!

A true devotion the the Blessed Mother will drive heresy out of your heart, “Z”.

I don’t see how.

 

[zerinus]

Are you sincere or are you a troll?

Pot calls the kettle black. You are the most insincere one around.

 

[zerinus]

This is a common confusion for anyone who reads Tweety’s posts. She does not really hold Catholic faith. I think she was baptized Catholic, but was improperly catechized, left the Church, and adopted protestant theology. She recently returned to a Catholic parish, but has retained her Protestant theology. She is merely masquerading here on CAF as Catholic.

True. I figured that out soon enough.

 

[guanophore]

I make this claim because I know that the HS helps me to understand what I read!

I agree that the HS helps us to understand the word of God. However, the HS will not lead an individual into an understanding that is contrary to what He has already led the Church.

Protection from being led astray!

We all pray and trust in God for this, but His promise was given to the Church. We can be protected by that promise only to the extent that we remain in unity with the Apostles. When an individual departs from what the Apostles believed and taught, then one also wanders away from the protection that was promised.

I didn’t say that I am the only one protected!

No, and I did not take it that way. What I am curious about is how you, as a protected person, can be “led by the Spirit” into a position opposite from what the HS revealed to the Apostles.

Zerinius also believes that she is protected by this same HS, and yet, denies the Trinity. How do you account for that?

You have made this something I did not say. Anyone can have the HS if they ask!

Pray and ask!

I agree, but praying, asking, and desiring the guidance of the HS does not mean we cannot fall into error.

 

[guanophore]

I was a Protestant for many years and never heard any teaching that Mary wasn’t the Mother of God.

I am glad that this is one heresy from which you were spared.

However, you still hold to Protestant theology, though you don’t seem to realize it.

 

[zerinus]

Zerinius also believes that she is protected by this same HS, and yet, denies the Trinity. How do you account for that?

Zerinus is a he, and he most certainly does not deny the Trinity. See here to find out more.

 

[tweetymom]

This is a common confusion for anyone who reads Tweety’s posts. She does not really hold Catholic faith. I think she was baptized Catholic, but was improperly catechized, left the Church, and adopted protestant theology. She recently returned to a Catholic parish, but has retained her Protestant theology. She is merely masquerading here on CAF as Catholic.

Once again thank you for your judgement call. You are more than kind. If I wasn’t here you would have noone to bash! So thats a good thing. Continue the harsh words brother if you get all excited from them. Wouln’t want to deprive you of a great time. You do not know my heart only Jesus does. The more you bash me the better I am because Jesus said there would be insults from others, so the more you do the more I know that I am doing what Christ wants me to do. And brother that makes me happy.

 

[tweetymom]

I am glad that this is one heresy from which you were spared.

However, you still hold to Protestant theology, though you don’t seem to realize it.

Once again thank you!!!

 

[Randy_Carson]

Once again thank you for your judgement call. You are more than kind. If I wasn’t here you would have noone to bash! So thats a good thing. Continue the harsh words brother if you get all excited from them. Wouln’t want to deprive you of a great time. You do not know my heart only Jesus does. The more you bash me the better I am because Jesus said there would be insults from others, so the more you do the more I know that I am doing what Christ wants me to do. And brother that makes me happy.

Tweetymom-

Either we believe what the Church teaches or we do not.

It’s not a matter of “knowing someone’s heart” - we can simply read what people post and recognize the obvious points of disagreement and error.

Does the act of bringing this to a poster’s attention constitute “bashing”?

Or is that the type of “brotherly correction” that Paul speaks of?

 

[tweetymom]

Tweetymom-

Either we believe what the Church teaches or we do not.

It’s not a matter of “knowing someone’s heart” - we can simply read what people post and recognize the obvious points of disagreement and error.

Does the act of bringing this to a poster’s attention constitute “bashing”?

Or is that the type of “brotherly correction” that Paul speaks of?

And I thank you too.

 

[Randy_Carson]

And I thank you too.

What a handy way to avoid thinking and answering questions.

 

[tweetymom]

Tweetymom-

Either we believe what the Church teaches or we do not.

It’s not a matter of “knowing someone’s heart” - we can simply read what people post and recognize the obvious points of disagreement and error.

Does the act of bringing this to a poster’s attention constitute “bashing”?

Or is that the type of “brotherly correction” that Paul speaks of?

I am not avoiding anything. So I disagree on some points? So do a lot of other Catholics. Remember to clean out the beam in your own eye before you worry about mine.

My heart is right before God and thats what matters to me.

It’s not the act it is the method that is bashing!

And sorry I don’t feel any brotherly anything here.
I state my oponion just like you.

 

[Rescued_by_mary]

I think you have made my point here “Z”. You yourself have said here that Joe rejected everything that he saw around him as false religion - “(all of them Protestant)”.

Joe did start off by rejecting the Pope, “Z”. As did all of the reformers, as they still do today. You are right in your mormon history, in that God told Joe not to join any of the churchs he was considering because they were all wrong, and I don’t doubt that He did. Joe was very astute in this observation, and to be commended for his due diligence. But where in your church history can you show me where Joe considered the Catholic Church, “Z”? And rejected Her doctrine as false? I don’t think that you will be able to find it. He started out with the premise, as do all protersers, that the Pope was false, and was inevitably led astray because of this. I admit, the mormon church is one of the best counterfeits of the True Church around, but it is false none the less. “He received his own,” you say, in reference to his religion? Received from whom, I think is the question, “Z”. Christianity had already been confirmed as being Divine in origin - The mormon church has had a hard time trying to repeat this over the years. If God told Joe anything, “Z” it was to join His Church on earth - The Holy Roman Catholic Church.

Can you show me from your literature containing the writtings of Joe that he was given this opportunity and rejected it? Can you show me where Joe had just cause in choosing not to follow the Pope, before he found his tablets?

“Z” - Listen to me man, please. Joe never once even considered the Blessed Mother in the formulation of his religion. He never gave the Pope a fair shot. He was rejecting the Protestantism of colonial America as his disciples traveled west. And what hardship they endured! So few people really know the persecution and the hardships that Joe’s disciples endured in their quest for their Utah Utopia. The history of the mormon church is truly an incredible tale of woe and adventure that can easily capture the heart of a young man seeking truth. It is a fanciful tale of betrayal and romance the captures the mind and overtakes the emotions of a softened and compassionate heart. Sadly, however, it is false.

You say you don’t see how my Mary can drive heresy out of you heart?

How telling! How honest! How tragic!

“Z” - Mary is the most powerful of all of God’s creations! St. Anthony, the hammer of heretics, learned at Her feet. She is so beautiful, “Z”! Oh, if you only knew the love that my Mary has for your fallen heart, you could not contain it. It would explode like the vast eternity around us. All of God’s creation reveals His Mary and His love for Her! The heavens above us reveal the spiral galaxies that were formed by the pirouettes of Mary, as she danced across the universe. It is Mary’s love that attracts the affections of men, and holds them in orbit about Her SON, just as the force of gravity holds the planets of our solar system, and tethers them to their SUN. There is just one solar system, with nine planets - there is just one Fruit of the Spirit, with nine slices.

And there is just one Mary, known in the Mind of God and Loved in the Heart of God from the foundations of the world!

“Z” -

If - For God so loved that He gave…

Could it be that - For God so desired to be loved that He Became???

The answer is LOVE “Z”. This is how a true devotion to my Mary can drive the heresy out of your heart. But I must forewarn you my friend – you will be devastated.

It is a great wonder to me how Christ can send His Mother to us with the way she is so mistreated. I couldn’t do it. I could not send my mother to do something for me knowing that she could be so hurt and maligned and outraged by ungrateful men! But He does! Is it little wonder why He may be hesitant to allow His Mother to be exposed to such trauma? I don’t see how He can do it, “Z”. A rescue effort by the Mother of God is truly a last ditch effort at converting the sinner, “Z”. I know, I know…

So, I must warn you. If Jesus sends His Mother in an attempt to persuade someone to forsake their heresy and they reject Her – they are doomed.

RbM

 

[jmcrae]

I am not avoiding anything. So I disagree on some points? So do a lot of other Catholics.

So, because other Catholics commit sin and heresy, that makes it okay for you to do, too?

My heart is right before God and thats what matters to me.

I have no doubt that you are a very kind, generous person - I picture an elderly woman giving cookies to the neighborhood kids and helping out new Moms with hand-knit blankies - but you are not very well-versed in the Catholic faith, as your answers on this Forum prove, time and time again.

I state my opinion just like you.

See, that’s the core issue, here. The Catholic faith is not a set of “opinions” that we are free to disagree with. Rather, it is a set of ideas that were given to us by Jesus Christ, that are even more true than anything you can find in a math or science text book.

 

[Rescued_by_mary]

I agree.

So did many others. He wasn’t the only one.

I wouldn’t say so. Joseph Smith didn’t start off by “rejecting the Pope”. He was just a 14 year old boy who was confsed by all the contending churches (all of them Protestant) and wanted to know which one was right. He didn’t know whether the Pope was right or not. He wanted to know what church to join. It was the Lord that then told him that none of the churches were right, and that he shouldn’t join any of them.

I agree.

I disagree! He received his own.

True; but not for the reasons that you are thinking.

It does!

I don’t see how.

I think you have made my point here “Z”. You yourself have said here that Joe rejected everything that he saw around him as false religion - “(all of them Protestant)”.

Joe did start off by rejecting the Pope, “Z”. As did all of the reformers, as they still do today. You are right in your mormon history, in that God told Joe not to join any of the churchs he was considering because they were all wrong, and I don’t doubt that He did. He was very astute in this observation, and to be commended for his due diligence. But where in your church history can you show me where Joe considered the Catholic Church, “Z”? And rejected Her doctrine as false? I don’t think that you will be able to find it. He started out with the premise, as do all protersers, that the Pope was false, and was inevitably led astray because of this. I admit, the mormon church is one of the best counterfeits of the True Church around, but it is false none the less. “He received his own,” you say, in reference to his religion? Received from whom, I think is the question, “Z”. Christianity had already been confirmed as being Divine in origin - The mormon church has had a hard time trying to repeat this over the years. If God told Joe anything, “Z” it was to join His Church on earth - The Holy Roman Catholic Church.

Can you show me from your literature containing the writtings of Joe that he was given this opportunity and rejected it? Can you show me where Joe had just cause in choosing not to follow the Pope, before he found his tablets?

“Z” - Listen to me man, please. Joe never once even considered the Blessed Mother in the formulation of his religion. He never gave the Pope a fair shot. He was rejecting the Protestantism of colonial America as his disciples traveled west. And what hardship they endured! So few people really know the persecution and the hardships that Joe’s disciples endured in their quest for their Utah Utopia. The history of the mormon church is truly an incredible tale of woe and adventure that can easily capture the heart of a young man seeking truth. It is a fanciful tale of betrayal and romance the captures the mind and overtakes the emotions of a softened and compassionate heart. Sadly, however, it is false.

You say you don’t see how my Mary can drive heresy out of you heart?

How telling! How honest! How tragic!

“Z” - Mary is the most powerful of all of God’s creations! St. Anthony, the hammer of heretics, learned at Her feet. She is so beautiful, “Z”! Oh, if you only knew the love that my Mary has for your fallen heart, you could not contain it. It would explode like the vast eternity around us. All of God’s creation reveals His Mary and His love for Her! The heavens above us reveal the spiral galaxies that were formed by the pirouettes of Mary, as she danced across the universe. It is Mary’s love that attracts the affections of men, and holds them in orbit about Her SON, just as the force of gravity holds the planets of our solar system, and tethers them to their SUN. There is just one solar system, with nine planets - there is just one Fruit of the Spirit, with nine Slices.

And there is just one Mary, known in the Mind of God and Loved in the Heart of God from the foundations of the world!

“Z” -

If - For God so loved that He gave…

Could it be that - For God so desired to be loved that He Became???

The answer is LOVE “Z”. This is how a true devotion to my Mary can drive the heresy out of your heart. But I must forewarn you my friend – you will be devastated.

It is a great wonder to me how Christ can send His Mother to us with the way she is so mistreated. I couldn’t do it. I could not send my mother to do something for me knowing that she could be so hurt and maligned and outraged by ungrateful men! But He does! Is it little wonder why He may be hesitant to allow His Mother to be exposed to such trauma? I don’t see how He can do it, “Z”. A rescue effort by the Mother of God is truly a last ditch effort at converting the sinner, “Z”. I know, I know…

So, I must warn you. If Jesus sends His Mother in an attempt to persuade someone to forsake their heresy and they reject Her – they are doomed.

RbM

 

[2nd_Adam]

Once again thank you for your judgement call. You are more than kind. If I wasn’t here you would have noone to bash! So thats a good thing. Continue the harsh words brother if you get all excited from them. Wouln’t want to deprive you of a great time. You do not know my heart only Jesus does. The more you bash me the better I am because Jesus said there would be insults from others, so the more you do the more I know that I am doing what Christ wants me to do. And brother that makes me happy.

Originally Posted by tweetymom
I am not avoiding anything. So I disagree on some points? So do a lot of other Catholics.

So, because other Catholics commit sin and heresy, that makes it okay for you to do, too?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Please leave Tweetymom alone! If you need to call someone a heretic, please pick on me instead. Tweetymom is 71 years old and a grandma!