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The_DNA_Rose
Guest
from where does your information, and knowledge of what the human soul is, come from.
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GEddie
Guest
Scripturally, the soul is the life.
The Church holds that the human, or “rational soul,” is also the source of what we would call the human mind.
ICXC NIKA.
The Church holds that the human, or “rational soul,” is also the source of what we would call the human mind.
ICXC NIKA.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Philosophy, Divine Revelation, and the teaching of the Catholic Church.
Pax
Linus2nd
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Aloysium
Guest
through the grace of the Holy Spirit and the revelation of the Word
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John_Martin
Guest
Experimental verification of the conclusions of Aristotle and Aquinas - you must remember that an idea such as “soul” is a symbolic coined term that is commonly held by those observing and reasoning a like understanding. With a term like “soul” it is, however, rare these days that everyone is speaking of the same thing. For example, for my understanding, my intellect and will are powers of my soul and not in any way or shape part of my material (physical) composition. Even my conscious thoughts and reasonings are not in my soul (though my soul makes use of them and my brain). Yet I know that many cannot tolerate the idea that our intellect and will are not part of our physical makeup.
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The_DNA_Rose
Guest
A fine answer, but the question then changes, as to where does the church, get it’s information, as to what the soul is.
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The_DNA_Rose
Guest
You have had a divine revelation? or was the divine revelation attributed to another person who merely wrote the revelation down? Again, you are caught in an endless loop, of it says so, therefor it is true.
Where does the knowledge of what the soul is come from?
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The_DNA_Rose
Guest
A nice evasion, and absolutely no substance.
Answers like that, are why evolution is legal, and taught in schools.
You must be more efficient.
And intelligent.
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The_DNA_Rose
Guest
So Aristotle and Aquinas, did experiments that proved the soul?
Can you please share the substance of these experiments?
PS. Your intellect and will, are the products of your DNA, as it has formed the substance and chemicals in your brain, where intellect and all conscious, and unconscious thought happens. You however are free to believe otherwise, as I know that you have no knowledge of neural, electrochemical interactions.
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John_Martin
Guest
Actually, experiments of the epistemological type - examining my own and other reasoning, thought processes, etc., and finding their descriptions fully matched actual. It is what everyone has to do when studying philosophy - look inside themselves to see if it is true, if they know it as described.
I do understand very well the interactions of the central nervous system, and how DNA has done very well by me. Yet, I am very much free from them so far as knowing and acting. Instead they are tools or instruments at my disposal.
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The_DNA_Rose
Guest
You say "Actually, experiments of the epistemological type - examining my own and other reasoning, thought processes, etc., and finding their descriptions fully matched actual. "
This appears to be an incomplete statement, so can you please finish, fully matched actual…then you stop, so actual what?
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
- By Revelation
A. 51 "It pleased God, in his goodness and wisdom, to reveal himself and to make known the mystery of his will. His will was that men should have access to the Father, through Christ, the Word made flesh, in the Holy Spirit, and thus become sharers in the divine nature."2 ( paragraph 51 of the CCC, linked below )
B. 54 "God, who creates and conserves all things by his Word, provides men with constant evidence of himself in created realities. and furthermore, wishing to open up the way to heavenly salvation - he manifested himself to our first parents from the very beginning."6 He invited them to intimate communion with himself and clothed them with resplendent grace and justice. ( CCC ) - The Constant teaching of the Church
A. 85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 The faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
The dogmas of the faith
88 The Church’s Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes in a definitive way truths having a necessary connection with them.
89 There is an organic connection between our spiritual life and the dogmas. Dogmas are lights along the path of faith; they illuminate it and make it secure. Conversely, if our life is upright, our and heart will be open to welcome the light shed by the dogmas of faith.50
90 The mutual connections between dogmas, and their coherence, can be found in the whole of the Revelation of the mystery of Christ.51 "In Catholic doctrine there exists an order or hierarchy 234 of truths, since they vary in their relation to the foundation of the Christian faith."52
The supernatural sense of faith
91 All the faithful share in understanding and handing on revealed truth. They have received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, who instructs them53 and guides them into all truth.54
92 "The whole body of the faithful. . . cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of faith (sensus fidei) on the part of the whole people, when, from the bishops to the last of the faithful, they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals."55
93 "By this appreciation of the faith, aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth, the People of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (Magisterium),. . . receives. . . the faith, once for all delivered to the saints. . . the People unfailingly adheres to this faith, penetrates it more deeply with right judgment, and applies it more fully in daily life."56
Growth in understanding the faith
94 Thanks to the assistance of the Holy Spirit, the understanding of both the realities and the words of the heritage of faith is able to grow in the life of the Church:
- “through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts”;57 it is in particular “theological research [which] deepens knowledge of revealed truth”.58
- “from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which [believers] experience”,59 The sacred Scriptures "grow with the one who reads them."60
- “from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth”.61
Continued on next post.
Linus2nd
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clem456
Guest
The Church observes what is revealed.
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Linusthe2nd
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Post # 12 continued
B. Man, the Image of God
C. 355 "God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them."218 Man occupies a unique place in creation: (I) he is “in the image of God”; (II) in his own nature he unites the spiritual and material worlds; (III) he is created “male and female”; (IV) God established him in his friendship.
I. “IN THE IMAGE OF GOD”
356 of all visible creatures only man is “able to know and love his creator”.219 He is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake”,220 and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God’s own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity:
What made you establish man in so great a dignity? Certainly the incalculable love by which you have looked on your creature in yourself! You are taken with love for her; for by love indeed you created her, by love you have given her a being capable of tasting your eternal Good.221
357 Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. and he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead.
358 God created everything for man,222 but man in turn was created to serve and love God and to offer all creation back to him:
What is it that is about to be created, that enjoys such honour? It is man that great and wonderful living creature, more precious in the eyes of God than all other creatures! For him the heavens and the earth, the sea and all the rest of creation exist. God attached so much importance to his salvation that he did not spare his own Son for the sake of man. Nor does he ever cease to work, trying every possible means, until he has raised man up to himself and made him sit at his right hand.223
359 "In reality it is only in the mystery of the Word made flesh that the mystery of man truly becomes clear."224
St. Paul tells us that the human race takes its origin from two men: Adam and Christ. . . the first man, Adam, he says, became a living soul, the last Adam a life-giving spirit. the first Adam was made by the last Adam, from whom he also received his soul, to give him life… the second Adam stamped his image on the first Adam when he created him. That is why he took on himself the role and the name of the first Adam, in order that he might not lose what he had made in his own image. the first Adam, the last Adam: the first had a beginning, the last knows no end. the last Adam is indeed the first; as he himself says: "I am the first and the last."225
360 Because of its common origin the human race forms a unity, for “from one ancestor (God) made all nations to inhabit the whole earth”:226
O wondrous vision, which makes us contemplate the human race in the unity of its origin in God. . . in the unity of its nature, composed equally in all men of a material body and a spiritual soul; in the unity of its immediate end and its mission in the world; in the unity of its dwelling, the earth, whose benefits all men, by right of nature, may use to sustain and develop life; in the unity of its supernatural end: God himself, to whom all ought to tend; in the unity of the means for attaining this end;. . . in the unity of the redemption wrought by Christ for all.227
361 “This law of human solidarity and charity”,228 without excluding the rich variety of persons, cultures and peoples, assures us that all men are truly brethren.
To be continued
Linus2nd
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Post 14 continued
II. “BODY AND SOUL BUT TRULY ONE”
362 The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. the biblical account expresses this reality in symbolic language when it affirms that "then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."229 Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God.
363 In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God’s image: “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man.
364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:232
Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honour since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day 233
365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body:234 i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.
366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235
367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming.236 The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul.237 “Spirit” signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.238
368 The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart, in the biblical sense of the depths of one’s being, where the person decides for or against God.239
From Philosophy
St. Thomas talks about the Human Soul in the Summa Theologiae in Part 1, Ques. 75-103You will have to read them yourself - and think about them. .
newadvent.org/summa/1.htm , scroll down to " Man ( Spirit and Matter )
You will note that in none of this is DNA mentioned, nor that it is the image of God, nor that we can become God. So the burden is on you to explain how you arrived at these notions and why anyone should believe them. You should be aware also that they are contrary to Catholic teaching and cannot be held by Catholics. They are contrary to what has been Revealed by God, what is tought by the Church, and contrary to what we can know Philosophically about the human soul.
Pax
Linus2nd
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Gorgias
Guest
Huh? You asked “did Aquinas and Aristotle do experiments?” to which John Martin replied, “Actually, [they conducted] experiments of the epistemological type – examining ‘my own’ and ‘other’ reasoning, thought processes, etc, and finding [that] their descriptions fully matched [what is] actual [observed data].”
Hope that helps.
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John_Martin
Guest
Thank you, Gorgias; I was in a rush this morning and the implication seemed clear to me that “actual” implied “actual observations”.
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clem456
Guest
I tend to look for the simple answers first, so mea culpa in that regard.
Can we say that the human soul is self evident? Something self evident is revealed, we can simply observe it. It doesn’t require contortions of thought to be discovered. A common misperception is that the Church invents realities by logical processes. The soul is not an invented concept, it is a reality. The Church observes the reality and proclaims it.
Think of the word “anima”. We exist. We live, and move, and have being. We can say we are animated. “Soul” expresses this reality. The Church proclaims the self evident truth that “anima” is breathed into us by someone…other than ourselves.
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Nixbits
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Clem456, the human soul is not self-evident to me or to many many other people.
clem456:
Animals and plants can be shown to live, move and have being, but most people who believe in the soul do not atribute souls to plants or animals. Unless you mean something more specific by ‘have being’.
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clem456
Guest
How is it not self-evident that you exist?
Those are animated as well. They are not animated in the same way as a human being. A human being is the union of
1)body
2) rational soul
No other creature is animated to discover his own existence, ponder his own existence, search for the origins of existence, seek to have a relationship with that very thing (person) which animates it.
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