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SocaliCatholic
Guest
What is the minimum belief you have to believe to be Catholic?
Magesterium? Apostles Creed? Catechism?
Magesterium? Apostles Creed? Catechism?
What is the minimum belief you have to believe to be Catholic?
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DominvsVobiscvm
Guest
I think the “absolute minimum” is the desire to want to believe everything that the Catholic Church teaches it, as she teaches it.
Every single article of faith is implicitly contained in the above. One’s knowledge of the Catholic faith can never be comprehensive, in this life or the next. This is because God is infinite, and our created intellects are not.
Every single article of faith is implicitly contained in the above. One’s knowledge of the Catholic faith can never be comprehensive, in this life or the next. This is because God is infinite, and our created intellects are not.
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SocaliCatholic
Guest
Ok I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but is that view held as an offical Church teaching? I am looking for something absolute so I have a defense to people who claim to be Catholic but are not. John Kerry & abortion is a good example. What is the MOST you can disagree, and still be Catholic?
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DominvsVobiscvm
Guest
Yes, because it is the minimum requirement for those adults wishing to recieve baptism in an emergency.
This is a different matter entirely.
Anyone who has been baptized, and professes the Catholic faith is a Catholic, in spite of his own personal conduct or heretical beliefs.
The only time he would cease to be a Catholic is if he a) specifically repudiated the Catholic religion or b) was excommunicated.
Otherwise, Catholics like Kerry really are ontologically Catholics. But they are Catholics not in good standing with the Church, or Catholics in manifest mortal sin. But Catholics nonetheless.
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
Ummm… why do you want this particular defense? The desire to be able to say, “I am more Catholic than you, and in fact you should not dare to call yourself Catholic at all!” is a dangerous one to entertain.
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Les_Richardson
Guest
This question is an interesting one. What if you change the question to, “what is the minimum belief you have to believe to be a Christian?”
Originally, that is what we were known as, and the “Catholic” connotation came later, no doubt as a response to some of the heresies that have abounded from almost day one of the church. That is, the Catholic (universal, one) Church was the apostolic church, the true church of Jesus Christ.
But the word Christian implies something more active than a baptismal certificate and the profession of the Creed, (not that it is a small thing), more like “follower of Jesus Christ.”
In other words, the sacrament of baptism and the assent of faith are essential, but is it possible to remain static at that point, immobile, and have an expectation or hope of salvation? The evangelical protestants use that one-time event short-hand, “have you been saved?” It no doubt simplifies the question because such an event as proscribed is a highly internalized “experience” which one is less likely to forget.
But actually, both miss the fact that life goes on, temptation comes our way and sometimes we strike bargains and compromises with the devil. Only we know for sure, however, the state of our own soul. Likewise, we cannot judge the state of someone else’s soul.
However, there are objective truths and standards and if we see someone who purports to be Catholic yet blatantly disobeys God’s law as interpreted for us by the Church, what other conclusion can we come to than that person may have a serious salvation issue?
Originally, that is what we were known as, and the “Catholic” connotation came later, no doubt as a response to some of the heresies that have abounded from almost day one of the church. That is, the Catholic (universal, one) Church was the apostolic church, the true church of Jesus Christ.
But the word Christian implies something more active than a baptismal certificate and the profession of the Creed, (not that it is a small thing), more like “follower of Jesus Christ.”
In other words, the sacrament of baptism and the assent of faith are essential, but is it possible to remain static at that point, immobile, and have an expectation or hope of salvation? The evangelical protestants use that one-time event short-hand, “have you been saved?” It no doubt simplifies the question because such an event as proscribed is a highly internalized “experience” which one is less likely to forget.
But actually, both miss the fact that life goes on, temptation comes our way and sometimes we strike bargains and compromises with the devil. Only we know for sure, however, the state of our own soul. Likewise, we cannot judge the state of someone else’s soul.
However, there are objective truths and standards and if we see someone who purports to be Catholic yet blatantly disobeys God’s law as interpreted for us by the Church, what other conclusion can we come to than that person may have a serious salvation issue?
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bengal_fan
Guest
it’s not about doing the bare minimum. it’s about doing everything that God says. “Whoever hears my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father and I too will love him and show Myself to him.” -Jn. 14:21
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ralphinal
Guest
bengal is right. Faith, as is love, is an action word. There is more involved than knowing the minimum or doing the minimum. We are told that we must dedicate our hearts, minds, souls, and entire beings to God. This is not a minimum type of commitment.
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SocaliCatholic
Guest
Why are people so evasive with such a simple question?
If no one can define what is the minimum to be considered a Catholic then that implies there is no minimum and anyone randomly picked on the street could be considered “Catholic” Doesn’t that claim sound ridiculous?
Again, what must you believe to be a Catholic? The definition should be somewhere in offical church teaching. Otherwise it is personal opinion.
If no one can define what is the minimum to be considered a Catholic then that implies there is no minimum and anyone randomly picked on the street could be considered “Catholic” Doesn’t that claim sound ridiculous?
Again, what must you believe to be a Catholic? The definition should be somewhere in offical church teaching. Otherwise it is personal opinion.
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luckyirishguy14
Guest
I think you need a decent understanding of the Bible, for it carries a lot of our rules. Even though you may not need this to be a Catholic, a CCC would be a good idea to have to help learn further about the faith. Finally, you need to go to Mass EVERY Sunday. There are 168 hours in a week: Why not give God at least one?
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The_Barrister
Guest
I think the absolute minimum is everything contained in two books 1) Bible; 2) Catechism of the Catholic Church.
No picking and choosing what you wish to believe from either book.
You need believe nothing else.
No picking and choosing what you wish to believe from either book.
You need believe nothing else.
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Salena
Guest
The Barrister:
The Church is not going to give a list of things you do not have to believe. The truth is taught, but at the same time the Church does teach that we have to have an active participation in everything either. The Church believes and teaches the communion of saints, but does not require that we all have a patron saint that we pray to every day.
Also, you can disagree with most all of the teachings of the Church and not be excommunicated. Kerry is different because he is a political leader and has made a public statement.
I had somewhat the same thought. There is no minimum. We are human, so it is possible that we can not agree on everything. Like indulgences. I don’t totally agree with this, on a common sense level, but because I am a Catholic I accept it. I accept it because I believe the Church teaches the absolute truth, but this does mean I keep tract of the amount either.
The Church is not going to give a list of things you do not have to believe. The truth is taught, but at the same time the Church does teach that we have to have an active participation in everything either. The Church believes and teaches the communion of saints, but does not require that we all have a patron saint that we pray to every day.
Also, you can disagree with most all of the teachings of the Church and not be excommunicated. Kerry is different because he is a political leader and has made a public statement.
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JohnCarroll
Guest
I’m glad you asked this question . It made me think. I don’t know if it can be answered for this reason, that at its foundation, Christianity ( Catholicism) is not a only a group of beliefs. Right beliefs are PART of a way we love God and our neighbor better. I may believe perfectly but go to Hell. I may be stupid , believe the best I can , but love God greatly and go to heaven. You can never know enough about the Lord and His Church to be OK - there is always more --I think being a good Christian is a direction you head into–closer to the Lord , let me always be closer to the Lord.
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martino
Guest
Why go for the minimum? Jump in with both feet! Trust in God and take the leap of faith, you will find the Catholic Church to be chock full of both treasure and mystery; you can never get bored with it!
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Annunciata
Guest
What is the minimum we must we believe to be Catholic……
We believe in one God, the Father the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not, made, one in Being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made. For us men and for our Salvation He came down from heaven:
By the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.:bowdown:
For our sakes he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His Kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the Resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen
That’s it!!!
We believe in one God, the Father the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not, made, one in Being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made. For us men and for our Salvation He came down from heaven:
By the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.:bowdown:
For our sakes he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His Kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the Resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen
That’s it!!!
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
What the Magisterium teaches, which is summed up in the Catechism and includes the Creed!
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SocaliCatholic
Guest
Br. Rich SFO:
This logically implies that at a minimum, a Catholic must agree with official papal teaching, and the magesterium.
So basically, the first pope Peter was originally given authority from Jesus, and the pope then gave authoirty to other bishops, which then became the magesterium? The pope and magesterium should never historically have contradicted in offical Church dogma correct? And that body of non-contradicting dogma promulgated from Rome is the minimum of which one must believe to be considered Catholic???
Thats what I was looking for!
This logically implies that at a minimum, a Catholic must agree with official papal teaching, and the magesterium.
So basically, the first pope Peter was originally given authority from Jesus, and the pope then gave authoirty to other bishops, which then became the magesterium? The pope and magesterium should never historically have contradicted in offical Church dogma correct? And that body of non-contradicting dogma promulgated from Rome is the minimum of which one must believe to be considered Catholic???
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
It is baptism that makes you Catholic. An infant just baptized knows nothing, understands nothing, believes nothing, and is Catholic. Once Catholic, that is to say, once baptized, you have to leave the Church (or be excommunicated) to become a non-Catholic.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but it may be best for the health of your own soul to drop this whole question. You can give loving correction to your brother and sister Catholics, and even advise them when it would be proper for them to refrain from receiving Communion, without needing the epithet that they aren’t even deserving of the name Catholic.
Heed the warning of Thomas Merton: There is nothing more suspicious, in a man who seems holy, than an impatient desire to reform other men. Be very careful where you tread here. The sin of spiritual pride is a deep, deep trap. Pray that we may all be spared the temptation of entertaining it.
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jim_orr
Guest
Br. Rich SFO:
The Creed has as much relevancy today as it had when it was first developed. For example, John Kerry not only does not follow Church teaching on abortion, he contradicts himself when he professes to "believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life” in the Creed, and turns around and defends the act of abortion with “maximum determination.” Therefore, either he is a terribly sick man, or is lying when he says he believes God is the giver of life. If he does not believe that God is the giver of life, then, like heretics of the early centuries, he is not a Christian, i.e., not a Catholic.
Then wouldn’t the minimum belief to be a Catholic be the Creed? The Creed is the condensation of the entire Bible, both Old and New. The Catechism uses the Creed as the outline for Church teaching. The Creed was developed and established in the first place to identify what a person must believe to be a Christian in order to differentiate from what heretics were teaching about Christ.
The Creed has as much relevancy today as it had when it was first developed. For example, John Kerry not only does not follow Church teaching on abortion, he contradicts himself when he professes to "believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life” in the Creed, and turns around and defends the act of abortion with “maximum determination.” Therefore, either he is a terribly sick man, or is lying when he says he believes God is the giver of life. If he does not believe that God is the giver of life, then, like heretics of the early centuries, he is not a Christian, i.e., not a Catholic.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Jim you read it backward. The Catechism contains the Creed and the Magisterium contains the Catechism. To be Catholic one believes in a TEACHING Church extablished by Christ to speak and teach for Him.
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