What is the minimum to claim the Church still exists?

[coyote]

And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Evil prevails against the Church by picking off its members one by one.

Thought experiment:
Let’s presume that evil is highly successful. What is the minimum number of members that must continue to be faithful before the Church is destroyed?

A single individual, ie a living Pope?
More?

 

[thistle]

And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Evil prevails against the Church by picking off its members one by one.

Thought experiment:
Let’s presume that evil is highly successful. What is the minimum number of members that must continue to be faithful before the Church is destroyed?

A single individual, ie a living Pope?
More?

Matt 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

 

[StCsDavid]

And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Evil prevails against the Church by picking off its members one by one.

Thought experiment:
Let’s presume that evil is highly successful. What is the minimum number of members that must continue to be faithful before the Church is destroyed?

A single individual, ie a living Pope?
More?

I would challenge the notion that evil prevails against the Church when one of its members falls away. Evil may not even have a role in that decision. It could be simply misguided self-interest. There always remains the hope that the person will return an even stronger evangelist for the faith. My own lived experience is proof of that.

As to your hypothetical, IMHO, I would say if one person still believes the Church exists.

 

[tee_eff_em]

The remnant (whether it is “two or three” or a single believer) had better include a validly ordained bishop (or there had better be bishops around who could be drawn back to the remnant), or the sacraments will die out. (Whether a sacramentless Church would still be the Church I shall not speculate)

tee

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Evil prevails against the Church by picking off its members one by one.

Thought experiment:
Let’s presume that evil is highly successful. What is the minimum number of members that must continue to be faithful before the Church is destroyed?

A single individual, ie a living Pope?
More?

None - if “God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham”, God can do likewise for His Church.​

ISTM that a trillion Catholics would not be the Church, if God be absent. The succession of the Church from the Apostles till now is not the result of what man does, such as believing or worshipping; but of what God does. Life in the Church is meant to be a means of sharing in the Life of the Blessed Trinity - and as long as the Trinity lives, the Life by which the Church is created and made alive continues. That Life is the one thing all-needful for the Church, IMHO.

So if the world were blown up tomorrow, and a Venusian were called by God to follow Him, that Venusian would be a “child of Abraham” in faith; and so, a member of the Church.

IMHO ##

 

[gusano]

And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Evil prevails against the Church by picking off its members one by one.

But for every member you “pick off”… God adds (7) more.

Thought experiment:
Let’s presume that evil is highly successful. What is the minimum number of members that must continue to be faithful before the Church is destroyed?

A single individual, ie a living Pope?
More?

NO THANK YOU.
I avoid **PRESUMPTION ** as if it were witchcraft .! (1 Samuel 15: 23)

Rather than waste precious time speculating to no purpose (Rom 1: 21)
I will instead look forward to Christ’s Promise and fulfillment;
"Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church and the gates of hell SHALL NOT prevail against it."
…by allowing Him to build HIS CHURCH in me !

The minimun requirement to claim the Church still exists…
is to BE IN IT.
(if you are not in it… for you it does not exist)…so you will have to do as others have done;… start your own.



gusano

 

[udral]

And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Evil prevails against the Church by picking off its members one by one.

Thought experiment:
Let’s presume that evil is highly successful. What is the minimum number of members that must continue to be faithful before the Church is destroyed?

A single individual, ie a living Pope?
More?

I think that phrase has been widely misinterpreted.

The GATES of Hell will not prevail against the Church. Gates are a defensive feature. What it means is that the Church will prevail agianst Hell, break down its Gates etc.

 

[prodigal-sun]

Thank God that we will never have to worry about hypotheticals such as this!

 

[coyote]

prodigal-sun:

Thank God that we will never have to worry about hypotheticals such as this!

Why not?

 

[Fred_1]

coyote:

Why not?

Well, you can worry if you like, making the argument that the Church is still the Church if it’s just a single person alone… but I don’t know why. Why worry about “how small the Church has to be before it stops being the Church?” because you KNOW the Church will never become so small to the point that it will stop being the Church. It just seems… well… silly to put any serious thought into the question.

 

[coyote]

OK Fred?

But this concern goes beyond “silly” to me. I am having grave doubts. Informative, knowledgable (name removed by moderator)ut will be of greater use to me than judgments on the “merit” of my concern.

 

[hurst]

coyote:

What is the minimum number of members that must continue to be faithful before the Church is destroyed?

A single individual, ie a living Pope?
More?

This makes sense until you realize that there are gaps between the death of a Pope and the election of a new one. So there has to be at least one other believer who has the ability to become Pope, and that means he must either already be a bishop or there must be another person who can ordain him.

I think that the following passage is noteworthy:

Luke 18:8 … But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?

hurst

 

[twf]

I suppose as long as there is one man validly ordained to the episcopate (a bishop) who holds the true Faith, the Church is still alive and well. I don’t see how the Church could survive without bishops…no confirmation, no Holy Eucharist, no absolution, etc…
The Church can survive without a pope, as it does between the death of a pope and the election of a new one. So I would argue that for the Church to exist, there would not necessarily have to be a pope…just at least one bishop.

 

[Nicene]

Read what St. Anthanasius had to say on the subject.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[prodigal-sun]

Fred?:

Well, you can worry if you like, making the argument that the Church is still the Church if it’s just a single person alone… but I don’t know why. Why worry about “how small the Church has to be before it stops being the Church?” because you KNOW the Church will never become so small to the point that it will stop being the Church. It just seems… well… silly to put any serious thought into the question.

Thank you Fred, I could not have said it better myself! No disrepect to you Coyote but The church will not fall, Christ himself assures us of this. So a minimum needed for the church to stand is non-issue.

Peace!

 

[gusano]

coyote:

Why not?

Response to post # 9

First, because Jesus commanded us not to worry or be anxious.

Second, because the amount of WORRY you contribute to your own presumption is more than it deserves.

Third, Satan tried to EXPERIMENT with Jesus in the desert after his Baptism …in a similar manner you are attempting to experiment here.
all based on IF

When Jesus begins a work, he himself will bring it to completion.

Alleluia !

gusano