What is the minimun amount of knowledge that one must have to be saved?

[traveler2013]

Maybe for you it is the wrong question, but there are some protestants who insist that at least a knowledge of the gospel is necessary, it is just that I cannot get them to quantify what exactly is necessary.

We definitely know from the biblical tradition that people can lack knowledge of God:

“The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30)

To be honest, I am surprised to see how many non-catholic folks, some being protestants, actually agree with the catholic view on this.

I’ve never heard of this. In my experience, the only requirement to salvation is to love God and profess Jesus as your Lord and Savior. That’s it. Nothing else.

 

[ltwin]

Maybe for you it is the wrong question, but there are some protestants who insist that at least a knowledge of the gospel is necessary, it is just that I cannot get them to quantify what exactly is necessary.

We definitely know from the biblical tradition that people can lack knowledge of God:

The Bible tells us “what exactly is necessary.” We can find this in Romans 10, where Paul writes about the Jews saying,

Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:1-4)

He goes on to contrast the “righteousness that is based on the law” with the “righteousness that is based on faith”:

But what does [the righteousness that is based on faith] say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:8-13)

 

[GaryTaylor]

We definitely know from the biblical tradition that people can lack knowledge of God:

“The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30)

I believe I missed the point of view? Your first sentence indicates who? Those outside Christianity who never heard of Jesus Christ? Or are we within the framework of known Christianity?

 

[TheAtheist]

I know that different protestant backgrounds will answer this question differently. But let’s see what we get:

What is the minimun amount of knowledge that one must have to be saved?

Isn’t this essentially akin to Gnosticism if knowledge is taken as the prerequisite to be “saved”?

 

[hapaxparadidomi]

I believe I missed the point of view? Your first sentence indicates who? Those outside Christianity who never heard of Jesus Christ? Or are we within the framework of known Christianity?

Actually those are not my words. I forgot to close the quote on my reply.

 

[hapaxparadidomi]

Isn’t this essentially akin to Gnosticism if knowledge is taken as the prerequisite to be “saved”?

I think if you understand knowledge in the sense that you must meet some sort of bench mark to be saved, then yes, I agree it is akin to gnosticism. But if knowledge is to be understood in the sense that it guides your actions, then no. I think the protestants who make the assertion per my OP, are functioning in the former.

 

[hapaxparadidomi]

The Bible tells us “what exactly is necessary.” We can find this in Romans 10, where Paul writes about the Jews saying,

He goes on to contrast the “righteousness that is based on the law” with the “righteousness that is based on faith”:

ltwin,

Would you argue that there is a minimum quota that you have to pertain to in order to be saved?

 

[Nabooru]

The minimum is to openly accept God’s grace in the person of Jesus Christ. That’s the minimum.

 

[hapaxparadidoma]

The minimum is to openly accept God’s grace in the person of Jesus Christ. That’s the minimum.

You will need to clarify. What constitues the person of Christ? Does it entail knowing all that He is? I.e., God, 2nd person of the trinity? Does it entail knowing what He did? Etc.

And how does this work for retarded people? For infants?

 

[TheAtheist]

I think if you understand knowledge in the sense that you must meet some sort of bench mark to be saved, then yes, I agree it is akin to gnosticism. But if knowledge is to be understood in the sense that it guides your actions, then no. I think the protestants who make the assertion per my OP, are functioning in the former.

The style of argument sounded very familiar (in the case of the former). One of my Catholic acquaintances along with his Anglican and Lutheran friends “went at it” with a number of evangelical Christians who were making similar claims and i recall him drawing the same distinction based upon the idea that ConstantineTG remarked on - ie “There’s a Test to get into Heaven?”

So i made a note of it.

 

[hapaxparadidomi]

The minimum is to openly accept God’s grace in the person of Jesus Christ. That’s the minimum.

You will need to clarify. What constitues the person of Christ? Does it entail knowing all that He is? I.e., God, 2nd person of the trinity? Does it entail knowing what He did? Etc.

And how does this work for retarded people? For infants?

 

[Nabooru]

There’s a good website I can direct you to.

catholicbridge.com/catholic/are_non-christians_saved.php

Those who are of sound, reasoned mind are held responsible for themselves. What one must know is that one is a sinner who falls short of the glory of God, and that one needs a savior. Not that one must “try to be a good person”. One can worship or long for Jesus without knowing His Name. That doesn’t guarantee them salvation, but it certainly helps. Those secure in their own convictions that Christ and His death and resurrection are unnecessary - either due to their self-assurance that they can get to heaven on their own merits, or that their non-Christian gods, idols, and medications can save them, cannot be saved.

 

[Janderich]

Joseph Smith said the following:

Knowledge is revelation. Hear, all ye brethren, this grand key: knowledge is the power of God unto salvation. Knowledge does away with darkness, suspense and doubt; for these cannot exist where knowledge is. … In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because He has greater knowledge; and hence He knows how to subject all other beings to Him. He has power over all. (History of the Church, 5:340)

… A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it needs revelation to assist us, and give us knowledge of the things of God. (History of the Church, 4:588)

Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come. (D&C 130:18-19)

But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave. (History of the Church, 6:306–7)

 

[brianwalden]

But if charity is necessary to be saved, then that implies SOME knowledge. You have to at least have a definition of charity as well as a good idea on how it is played out.

The virtue of charity is the act of loving as God loves. We don’t have to intellectually understand the definition of the word to perform the act. Many, perhaps most, self identified Christians don’t know charity as anything other than giving money away to a cause and would think that agape is a made up word. But that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to act for the good of another. This is because we are created in the image of God and have a conscience. Our conscience tells us how to love. Yes, because we have a fallen nature it is very difficult to listen to our conscience over our desires, emotions, and faulty intellect - but it’s still possible be driven to love by conscience alone.

In the simplest terms possible: we are saved by God’s grace, we must respond to that grace with love (else we’d be rejecting it). Intellectual knowledge is an immense help and practically speaking it’d be difficult to be saved with absolutely no knowledge of God (the reason He gave us an intellect was so that we’d use it). But strictly speaking, I don’t see any knowledge requirements.

 

[gcnuss]

In the simplest terms possible: we are saved by God’s grace, we must respond to that grace with love (else we’d be rejecting it). Intellectual knowledge is an immense help and practically speaking it’d be difficult to be saved with absolutely no knowledge of God (the reason He gave us an intellect was so that we’d use it). But strictly speaking, I don’t see any knowledge requirements.

I agree. The source of salvation is God and his grace. Knowledge can help or hinder, depending on whether we use it to follow God or to reject him.

 

[Bible_Light]

I know that different protestant backgrounds will answer this question differently. But let’s see what we get:

What is the minimun amount of knowledge that one must have to be saved?

What we need to know and accept is Jesus Christ and Him crucified for our sins.

John3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[KathleenGee]

I like Fr Barrows’ teaching from his program on EWTN last night…

People are not so drawn to the teachings of Jesus…but to Jesus Christ Himself.

It is Jesus Who saves and restores us…Jesus is the new temple of God or as He calls Himself, the Cornerstone. He is the Vine and we are His branches.

Janderich touches on the reality that ST. Catherine of Siena advised us to consider…It is not about us…but about Christ Himself. When we enter into the Life of Jesus, then we can go deeper into knowledge…

Wisdom is knowing one’s self…Who we are not, and Who Christ is.

If we look to gaining knowledge…it is then a compartment of ideas…that have no end. The Creed defines Who He is, that is set for all time. Christ did not hand out bibles at His coming. Instead He lay down His life for us. He gave us wisdom for life and wisdom for the next life…detachment from all things and possessing instead Christ Himself.

Doing so, our relationship with the Lord is a living one that continues on after we pass through the door of death. St. Paul and St. Thomas Aquinas got minimal flashes of heaven. ST. Paul said we have no idea of what awaits us.

St. Thomas said all his teaching on knowledge of God was as a straw to be burned compared to what he experienced in his fleeting glimpse of heaven.

God is about Love…Divine Love…and we entering into the life of grace and His Love Now…the Kingdom of God is here … now.

 

[cap76]

I know that different protestant backgrounds will answer this question differently. But let’s see what we get:

What is the minimun amount of knowledge that one must have to be saved?

The answer is a bit over-simplified, but so is the question.
The Philippian jailor, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Paul and Silas, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

 

[zz912]

What I always see in these discussions are people who will take one or two verses and try to minimalize down the requirements necesary for salvation. They try to strip down to some bare essential, but ignore the totality of the Gospel message. They will say that you only need to call on the name of Jesus, or say the sinner’s prayer, or ask Jesus into your heart, or believe in Jesus, or something else.

Well the problem with this is that this is pulling the verses out of context, and ignoring the implications of what those verses mean in whole. When you call on His name, it isn’t a one-time event, and it isn’t something that is something you can check off like a list. Calling on His name means aligning yourself with Him, claiming Him as your Lord, and obeying all that He commands. If you at a later date refuse to obey His commands, you have refuted and rejected your prior calling upon His name.

Trying to simplify the Gospel message and the requirements of Christ is a sure path to heresy. Christ doesn’t want a checklist, He was ALL of you.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Lord is calling us to renounce ourselves, to lay down our lives for Him…the new source of our life…and each day is a walk in life long conversion…As He said, those who persevere to the end will be saved…and He also speaks of the Last Judgment…what we do to the least of these…the unborn?..we do to Him.