What is the modern Jewish perspective on Jesus?

[a_cermak]

Hi

May be you were not much informed a Catholic as you opted to become a Jew. Are you ready to know more about Catholicism from our fiends here?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

No, I knew Catholicism extremely well. I knew what I was rejecting when I did so.

 

[paarsurrey]

No, I knew Catholicism extremely well. I knew what I was rejecting when I did so.

Hi

Well that is your free will; and you could do that, no two opinions.

Now that you have left Catholicism; how would you describe:

Were the Jews justified in puting an innocent man Jesus on Cross with the intention to kill him?

Was this action of theirs justifiable according to the Catholic OTBible or now your Jewish Torah?

Please take no embarrassment; I am just asking these questions in search for truth, if you please.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[Kaninchen]

Thanks for the response.

Hint, by the way, Friday isn’t the best of days for posting threads addressed to Jews.

For somewhat obvious reasons; neither Buddha nor Mohammed claimed to be the Jewish Messiah, and the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets.

Claims to be Messiah don’t make somebody important or interesting.

Because Judiasm and Christianity share a common moral and spiritual foundation in the Hebrew scriptures, and Jesus expounds upon that foundation in teachings that can be accepted without accepting that he was divine. For example, in the Sermon on the Mount.

You know, as the years of talking about religion on the Internet have gone by, I’ve become less and less convinced of the similarities. Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus and Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus.

He also addressed hypocrisy. Surely, even if his claims for being divine were not accepted, and his followers claims of his resurrection were discounted, there is a common sense of right and wrong and a deeper good that flows from the correcting of hypocrisy. As an analogy, as Catholics, we humbly accept the correction of abuse in the Church that Martin Luther addressed, and that may be done without agreeing a break from the Church was needed.

Why would one assume that Judaism wasn’t/isn’t capable of insight? As if there were no Jewish thinkers?

A liar probably would not be seen as having much to contribute to ecumenical dialouge.

The only ‘ecumenical dialog’ most Christians ever seem to want is better described as proselytizing.

Well, first because Jesus was not at all pious.

The reference to ‘pious fiction’ had nothing whatsoever to do with the supposed piousness or non-piousness of Jesus but to the ‘New Testament’ in which the story is told.

 

[Kaninchen]

Because Christianity might actually be Judaism as it should have become, it’s fulfillment, whereas Buddhism and Islam make no such claim.

Or, Christianity might actually be a phenomenon entire of its own.

 

[Kaninchen]

Were the Jews justified in puting an innocent man Jesus on Cross with the intention to kill him?

Is that what your Muslim sub-group’s Qur’an says? It’s not even what the Christian New Testament says.

Please take no embarrassment; I am just asking these questions in search for truth, if you please.

Perhaps you might put more thought into the questions?

 

[Kaninchen]

These are very nice, thanks. stonedeaf
Now, I have new avatars!
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/stonedeaf.jpg

They’ve been around (there used to be less of them) for years and both the pictures and the text are rather fun. People used to link to them all the time but they seem to be a forgotten resource and I just thought that newer generations of message boarders really ought to be introduced to their powerful insights to message board behavior!

 

[ricmat]

Or, Christianity might actually be a phenomenon entire of its own.

Well, you might want to speculate that Christianity is not the fulfillment of Judaism, but to say it is not related to Judaism is just plain incorrect. Jesus and all the apostles were Jews, as were most of the early Christians. The Christian Bible is 85% (?) Jewish scriptures.

I have a question for you. Do you believe that God’s blessings were intended to be permanently limited to only the Jews? Assuming your answer is “no” - how have those blessings (including what Christians would call salvation) been further distributed to the family of mankind? Assuming, of course, that Christianity has nothing to do with it.

 

[KingAlfred]

It would be great to hear this from a Jewish person, or someone who is well-acquainted with Jewish people.

I understand there is likely to be some variety of opinion, as there are some Messianic Jews.

But I’m interested in how they interpret Jesus and His teachings today, not how the Sanhedrin interpreted Jesus in the 1st century.

I’m sure most Israelis know that there is great Evangelical Christian support for Israel, so I wonder if this in any way affects their teaching and rhetoric about Jesus the Jewish Prophet.

This is an agenda-free question. I am Catholic, raised in the Midwest, and do not know any Jewish people. I am sincerely curious.

I’ve always suspected most Jews strongly dislike Christianity. I’ve known many who think it’s a joke, theologically speaking.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Hint, by the way, Friday isn’t the best of days for posting threads addressed to Jews.

Why’s that?

Claims to be Messiah don’t make somebody important or interesting.

Not when they dissipate into the annals of history, they don’t. But when they snowball into the largest religion in the world, they might.

You know, as the years of talking about religion on the Internet have gone by, I’ve become less and less convinced of the similarities. Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus and Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus.

That’s interesting. Care to elaborate?

Why would one assume that Judaism wasn’t/isn’t capable of insight? As if there were no Jewish thinkers?

Clearly that was not the implication of my statment.

The only ‘ecumenical dialog’ most Christians ever seem to want is better described as proselytizing.

I’ve seen that to be quite untrue when it comes to evangelical thought about Judiasm, especially in the context of eschatology. I also am not sure how John Paul II could be construed as disinguinously interested in ecumenical discussion, nor Mother Teresa. Both were considered to border on the heretical by some for not insisting on mental conversion for a spiritual response to the gospel and one true God.

The reference to ‘pious fiction’ had nothing whatsoever to do with the supposed piousness or non-piousness of Jesus but to the ‘New Testament’ in which the story is told.

Well, I couldn’t call Paul pious either. He was busy putting Christians to death when he either converted or had a bizarre visual hallucination that resulted in his martyrdom.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, you might want to speculate that Christianity is not the fulfillment of Judaism, but to say it is not related to Judaism is just plain incorrect.

Not ‘kissing cousins’, certainly.

Jesus and all the apostles were Jews, as were most of the early Christians. The Christian Bible is 85% (?) Jewish scriptures.

You interpret our scriptures differently.

I have a question for you. Do you believe that God’s blessings were intended to be permanently limited to only the Jews? Assuming your answer is “no” - how have those blessings (including what Christians would call salvation) been further distributed to the family of mankind? Assuming, of course, that Christianity has nothing to do with it.

All a matter for God to decide and make whatever arrangements.

 

[Kaninchen]

Why’s that?

Shabbat - starts at sunset Friday, ends sunset Saturday.

Not when they dissipate into the annals of history, they don’t. But when they snowball into the largest religion in the world, they might.

No, it’s fulfilling the prophesies that would do it.

That’s interesting. Care to elaborate?

Another thread, another time.

Clearly that was not the implication of my statment.

Well, there seemed to be a clear suggestion that we needed somebody else’s deity to guide us.

I’ve seen that to be quite untrue when it comes to evangelical thought about Judiasm, especially in the context of eschatology. I also am not sure how John Paul II could be construed as disinguinously interested in ecumenical discussion, nor Mother Teresa. Both were considered to border on the heretical by some for not insisting on mental conversion for a spiritual response to the gospel and one true God.

I did say ‘most’.

Well, I couldn’t call Paul pious either. He was busy putting Christians to death when he either converted or had a bizarre visual hallucination that resulted in his martyrdom.

Not the implication - the use of ‘pious fiction’ implies that 1) it’s all fiction and 2) it was the product of a mind or minds highly impressed by the figure involved.

 

[Kaninchen]

I’ve always suspected most Jews strongly dislike Christianity.

Christians have a lot to ‘live down’.

I’ve known many who think it’s a joke, theologically speaking.

No more or less than Zoroastrianism, Islam, Buddhism . . . .

 

[Angels_Unaware]

No, it’s fulfilling the prophesies that would do it.

Ah! You have hit on what interests me. From this statement, I conclude that earnest Jewish people have examined Jesus’ claims and rejected the idea that he fulfilled the Messiah prophesies. That perspective is interesting to me simply because I have never heard it from those people who have come to those conclusions.

It really is not a trick question, or a leading question. I am not one of those people who cannot tolerate fair intellectual exchanges with those who hold different viewpoints. I am not like, say, Just4asking, who is a Protestant who comes to these forums and asks manipulative “questions” that are nothing but tricks to attempt to brain wash people into believing just as she believes.

My convictions are not so insecure. I know who I am and my own religious convictions, and am sincerely curious about why others have their own convictions.

kaninchen:

Well, there seemed to be a clear suggestion that we needed somebody else’s deity to guide us.

Not from me there was not this suggestion. My point was that there was possibly mutual areas of agreement with Jesus’ criticisms of some Jewish leaders.

 

[Kaninchen]

Ah! You have hit on what interests me. From this statement, I conclude that earnest Jewish people have examined Jesus’ claims and rejected the idea that he fulfilled the Messiah prophesies. That perspective is interesting to me simply because I have never heard it from those people who have come to those conclusions.

One wouldn’t have to look at Jesus’ ‘claims’ to know he wasn’t Messiah.

 

[Kaninchen]

My point was that there was possibly mutual areas of agreement with Jesus’ criticisms of some Jewish leaders.

In the same way that there were possibly mutual areas of agreement between Muslims and Christians about Mohamed’s criticisms of Christians at the time?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

One wouldn’t have to look at Jesus’ ‘claims’ to know he wasn’t Messiah.

Is this all you will tell me?

Ok.

 

[Kaninchen]

Is this all you will tell me?

Ok.

We’ve had thread after thread about this subject.

Check these out:

You may find the following Messiah links helpful:

chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/Belief-in-Moshiach.htm

jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/messiah.html

 

[Angels_Unaware]

We’ve had thread after thread about this subject.

Check these out:

You may find the following Messiah links helpful:

chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/Belief-in-Moshiach.htm

jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/messiah.html

Thank you. This is very interesting, and I finally think I understand the essence of how the Messiah has been interpreted differently by Jewish and Christian thought. This statement is the most telling,

“All nations of the world will recognize Mashiach to be a world leader and will accept his dominion. In the messianic era there will be world peace, no more wars nor famine and, in general, a high standard of living.”

Fascinating. It seems at first glance to be a repudiation of the sacrificial spirituality that Christians find to be of value in our earthly lives, including and notably, suffering, for outward, worldly signs of spirituality such as following the law and the establishment of peaceful kingdoms.

I think, on the basis of this understanding, it may be fair to say there is no greater theological divide between Christianity and any other system of thought than the one between Judiasm and Christianity, despite the common Hebrew scripture.

Christians would also recognize that the Jewish vision of the coming Mashiach has parallels to our book of Revelation, most notably the establishment of a new world order and a reign of worldly peace.

I had no idea that the Talmud says the Mashiach must come before the Hebrew year 6000, and that year is a little more than 200 years from now.

I will also search these forums if this has been a commonly discussed topic and read more there.