What is the origin of the stereotypical images of God and Satan?

[JackVk]

I’ve long since embraced the fact that God is the supreme being and that we cannot properly describe Him or give Him a face other than Jesus. But where does this image come from that God is a big, old fellow with long white hair and in robes? Does anybody know?

And with Satan: Why is he portrayed as a red-skinned man with horns, hooves, and a tail?

 

[The_Fool]

The God you mention here is more than likely a depiction of God the Father, which tends to have different connotations in society from God the Son. The imagery you talk about is interesting, however, in that the older the art, the less likely a viewer is to actually see the Father. Sure, you might see a hand sticking out of a cloud, but later artists decided to depict more than a hand and they probably figured it only makes sense to an audience to see an old man, not a young man, or even a woman. Thus, precedent is set.

As for the other one, in the medieval period he was often depicted as having horns, a pitchfork, and the hindquarters of an animal. The only thing I can think of for that imagery is that it is reminiscent of pagan mythology.

 

[ThomasToo]

Classical antiquity. Look at statues of Zeus (e.g. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Statue_of_Zeus_dsc02611-.jpg) and I think the parallels are more than obvious.

Some anthropologists, citations escape me at the moment, have said that the contemporary image of Satan–behorned with goat’s legs and a tail–are appropriations and reversals of pagan depictions of a (masculine) nature spirits (e.g. Pan, on the left in secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/FileanandDaphnis.jpg) in an attempt to subvert peasants ideas of godliness, goodness, badness &c. In any case I think there are widely varying depictions of Satan from the above description which is most operative in the man on the street–as it were–to images a bit closer to fallen angel (e.g. secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Lucifer_Liege_Luc_Viatour.jpg and secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:GustaveDoreParadiseLostSatanProfile.jpg).

 

[JackVk]

Classical antiquity. Look at statues of Zeus (e.g. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Statue_of_Zeus_dsc02611-.jpg) and I think the parallels are more than obvious.

Some anthropologists, citations escape me at the moment, have said that the contemporary image of Satan–behorned with goat’s legs and a tail–are appropriations and reversals of pagan depictions of a (masculine) nature spirits (e.g. Pan, on the left in secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/FileanandDaphnis.jpg) in an attempt to subvert peasants ideas of godliness, goodness, badness &c. In any case I think there are widely varying depictions of Satan from the above description which is most operative in the man on the street–as it were–to images a bit closer to fallen angel (e.g. secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Lucifer_Liege_Luc_Viatour.jpg and secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:GustaveDoreParadiseLostSatanProfile.jpg).

Thank you. But, I really don’t need a boogeyman to avoid hell. I’m not saying you’re lying, I just want to know why we have these images. And yes, I have heard of the similarities between Christianity and Greek/Roman Mythology (Charon=Angel of Death).

 

[JohnDamian]

Some anthropologists, citations escape me at the moment, have said that the contemporary image of Satan–behorned with goat’s legs and a tail–are appropriations and reversals of pagan depictions …

You equivocate causality with similarity.

 

[ThomasToo]

Thank you. But, I really don’t need a boogeyman to avoid hell. I’m not saying you’re lying, I just want to know why we have these images. And yes, I have heard of the similarities between Christianity and Greek/Roman Mythology (Charon=Angel of Death).

I didn’t say anything about a boogeyman, further I didn’t mean to imply that you needed one. I just gave one indication about a possible source of the imagery…

You equivocate causality with similarity.

No… I know that there is a difference between correlation (and similarity) and causation; all I said is that some people have suggested that one sort of imagery used to depict Christianity’s devil has roots in other cultures and attempts to subvert that culture by [well-meaning] missionaries–for want of a better word.

 

[JohnDamian]

No… I know that there is a difference between correlation (and similarity) and causation; all I said is that some people have suggested that one sort of imagery used to depict Christianity’s devil has roots in other cultures and attempts to subvert that culture by [well-meaning] missionaries–for want of a better word.

You say you know the difference between correlation and causation; then you claim that the Christian imagary was caused in some sense by other cultures.

Now; can you verify that?

That said; I do not doubt that it correlates with other imagary; merely that it necessarily was caused by other imagary.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, it didn’t come from Jewish imagery!

 

[Charlemagne_II]

The traditional image of God the Father could have been inspired for some artists by the image of a bearded and majestic Moses who was patriarch of his race. Hardly any prophet from the Old Testament more bears the authority of God than Moses inscribing the commandments of God on two tablets of stone.

 

[Peter_Gabriel]

If you think about it, what is the best way to visually distinguish a father from a son? You would make the father look older - one way to do that is to give him a white beard. There are all sorts of different ways of representing Satan, I think he is most commonly depicted as a serpent - which comes obviously comes from Scripture. I don’t think it is unreasonable to say that Pan likely influenced depictions of Satan - since Pan has the features of a man and a goat. It would make sense from a Christian perspective to adopt that imagery, as the goat is used to denote those who are not of Christ and their father Satan - i.e. separating the sheep from the goats.

 

[ThomasToo]

You say you know the difference between correlation and causation; then you claim that the Christian imagary [sic] was caused in some sense by other cultures.

Now; can you verify that?

That said; I do not doubt that it correlates with other imagery; merely that it necessarily was caused by other imagary.

I would argue that the onus is on you to show that despite the tendency of most other forms of cultural ideology to be transmitted from one culture to the next that these images sprung uniquely in the context of Christian culture (what does that even mean? which one?) but Ronald Hutton talks about the appropriation of the god Pan in his book The Triumph of the Moon. Amazon’s search inside is down so I don’t have a page number for you however; the index will be of assistance.

 

[JackVk]

I didn’t say anything about a boogeyman, further I didn’t mean to imply that you needed one. I just gave one indication about a possible source of the imagery…

No… I know that there is a difference between correlation (and similarity) and causation; all I said is that some people have suggested that one sort of imagery used to depict Christianity’s devil has roots in other cultures and attempts to subvert that culture by [well-meaning] missionaries–for want of a better word.

I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to come off as rude. I was just stating a fact.

 

[JackVk]

I would argue that the onus is on you to show that despite the tendency of most other forms of cultural ideology to be transmitted from one culture to the next that these images sprung uniquely in the context of Christian culture (what does that even mean? which one?) but Ronald Hutton talks about the appropriation of the god Pan in his book The Triumph of the Moon. Amazon’s search inside is down so I don’t have a page number for you however; the index will be of assistance.

What about Beowulf? Grendel and his mother are supposed to represent the devil.
If my interpretation is correct, Beowulf decapitates Grendel’s mother, which symbolizes the death of paganism and the rise of Christianity. Also, in the recently made movie (which was an awful butchery of the original story), Beowulf refers to Christ as “the new God”.

 

[ThomasToo]

What about Beowulf? Grendel and his mother are supposed to represent the devil.
If my interpretation is correct, Beowulf decapitates Grendel’s mother, which symbolizes the death of paganism and the rise of Christianity. Also, in the recently made movie (which was an awful butchery of the original story), Beowulf refers to Christ as “the new God”.

Beowulf is unequivocally Christian literature (the text describes Grendel and his mother as descendants of Cain) and postdates antiquity by centuries.

The word ‘Christ’ appears nowhere in the text and as you said, the movie isn’t a good indication of its content.