What is the Orthodox opinion of the Catholic Church?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wyatt
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

Wyatt

Guest
Do they believe we have valid Sacraments?

Do they believe that we have Apostolic Succession?

Do they believe the Pope holds any kind of primacy or honor, and if not…why not?
 
Do they believe we have valid Sacraments?

Do they believe that we have Apostolic Succession?

Do they believe the Pope holds any kind of primacy or honor, and if not…why not?
Not relevant.

Yes, sort of (connected to question 1)

Yes. Let the Pope of Rome confess the Ortodox Faith and he shall be first.
 
Not relevant.

Yes, sort of (connected to question 1)

Yes. Let the Pope of Rome confess the Ortodox Faith and he shall be first.
The first question is most certainly relevant. Does the Orthodox Church believe that Catholic sacraments impart grace on the faithful? More importantly…do they believe that the Eucharist truly becomes the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ in a Catholic Mass (or Divine Liturgy)? I am really wanting an honest answer because, I’m pretty sure I know how we view the Orthodox, but I’m not sure how the Orthodox view us.
 
The first question is most certainly relevant.
Why?
Does the Orthodox Church believe that Catholic sacraments impart grace on the faithful?
Why?

If your baptism is valid? We still won’t be baptized by you.

If your chrismation is valid? We still won’t accpet it from you.

If your priesthood is valid? Our bishops still will not let them serve at their altars.

If your Eucharist is valid? We still won’t commune with you.

If your marriages are valid? We still won’t marry in your churches.

If your unction is valid? We still won’t call you when the time comes.
More importantly…do they believe that the Eucharist truly becomes the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ in a Catholic Mass (or Divine Liturgy)?
I personally do, and prostrate whenever I come into a Latin church where adoration is goiing on, and cross myself passing a Latin church.

But that’s just my own theologoumen, and I’d never commune at a Latin church.
I am really wanting an honest answer
Why?
because, I’m pretty sure I know how we view the Orthodox, but I’m not sure how the Orthodox view us.
Erring, but salvageable/saveable.
 
C’mon now…lets play nice!!

Of all the religious peoples on this orb, I would think that we of the Latin Rite…and those of the Eastern Rites…should be the most closely aligned and striving to perfect the bond between us.

All of my life I have thought it strange that it is as it is… 😦
 
C’mon now…lets play nice!!

Of all the religious peoples on this orb, I would think that we of the Latin Rite…and those of the Eastern Rites…should be the most closely aligned and striving to perfect the bond between us.

All of my life I have thought it strange that it is as it is… 😦
True, but it is annoying when someone is trying to understand the other side to get no better answer than was given.
 
Why?

Why?

If your baptism is valid? We still won’t be baptized by you.

If your chrismation is valid? We still won’t accpet it from you.

If your priesthood is valid? Our bishops still will not let them serve at their altars.

If your Eucharist is valid? We still won’t commune with you.

If your marriages are valid? We still won’t marry in your churches.

If your unction is valid? We still won’t call you when the time comes.

I personally do, and prostrate whenever I come into a Latin church where adoration is goiing on, and cross myself passing a Latin church.

But that’s just my own theologoumen, and I’d never commune at a Latin church.

Why?

Erring, but salvageable/saveable.
I would have to say the answer to “why” if I may be so bold as to answer for the OP is because he ( we) are curious. That is the point of these forums is to seek answers to question we have no matter if we agree with them are not.

He was not asking if the Orthodox would receive the Sacraments from a Catholic Priest. He was asking if they are deemed valid By the Orthodox.

Example I would not go to a Orthodox Priest for any for the Sacraments ( unless I was not able to get to a Catholic Priest and my life was near an end) but I do hold that they are valid.
And I know just from what little I have seen on this site the Orthodox ( at least the majority that come here) could not care less if we Latins hold that they are valid or not.
Hesychios
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Church View Post
Right back at ya.
That’s all we would expect.
Otherwise you’d be Orthodox.
We are not seeking your approval.
That is just plain bad manners. Though you may not wish to have any understanding of the Latin Church there is no reason to be mean ans rude. I truly do not understand stand why simple honest questions can not be answered in a simple honest way with out being nasty.
 
The smug self-satisfaction of some posters on this thread in their belonging to an exclusive club is pitiful and childish. :rolleyes:

** "We still won’t be baptized by you.

We still won’t accpet it from you.

Our bishops still will not let them serve at their altars.

We still won’t commune with you.

We still won’t marry in your churches.

We still won’t call you when the time comes"**
 
By page 2, people from one church will be accusing the other church of sacrificing virgins, and the people from the other church will retaliate that the first church drinks puppy’s blood. :rolleyes:
 
I stated:
That’s all we would expect.

Otherwise you’d be Orthodox.

We are not seeking your approval.
You stated
I That is just plain bad manners. Though you may not wish to have any understanding of the Latin Church there is no reason to be mean ans rude. I truly do not understand stand why simple honest questions can not be answered in a simple honest way with out being nasty.
I don’t see how you could possibly take my statement as bad manners.

The questions are asked here a lot, but I have to wonder why.

What could you possibly care what Orthodox think of your sacraments or your church or anything else? We really don’t have a formal opinion about your church because your church is not our church.

And we know our sacraments are valid, we know our teachings are true. We don’t need Lutherans or Baptists or Latin Catholics to tell us this. We just don’t. 🤷

We cannot commune with you and our priests cannot concelebrate. This is directly related to a difference in teachings, Orthodox don’t teach some of the things your church does. That’s all we know.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, it was not intended to. But we don’t bring the subject up. The question is always the same and the answer does not change.
 
I would have to say the answer to “why” if I may be so bold as to answer for the OP is because he ( we) are curious. That is the point of these forums is to seek answers to question we have no matter if we agree with them are not.

He was not asking if the Orthodox would receive the Sacraments from a Catholic Priest. He was asking if they are deemed valid By the Orthodox.
First issue there: we don’t worry about “illicit, but valid.” If it’s illicit, it is not of our concern.
Example I would not go to a Orthodox Priest for any for the Sacraments ( unless I was not able to get to a Catholic Priest and my life was near an end) but I do hold that they are valid.
Yes, idle speculation has been going on in the West at least from the time of the scholastics.
And I know just from what little I have seen on this site the Orthodox ( at least the majority that come here) could not care less if we Latins hold that they are valid or not.
True.

The closest I can do to satisfy your curiosity is to state, that those baptized by the Vatican received by the Orthodox Church usually their baptism is received by economia. Priests and bishops ordained by the Vatican have been accepted by economia (Anglicans, for instance, never have), Married couples received are not remarried (those who go on to be clergy are often, to make sure of canonical regularity of married clergy).

Closer perhaps is the fact that the Church will marry an Orthodox member to a communicant with the Vatican in the Orthodox Church. The Church cannot, and will not, marry the unbaptized.
 
The smug self-satisfaction of some posters on this thread in their belonging to an exclusive club
you mean closed communion?
is pitiful and childish. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

This is something I associate with idle curiosity.
** "We still won’t be baptized by you.
We still won’t accpet it from you.
Our bishops still will not let them serve at their altars.
We still won’t commune with you.
We still won’t marry in your churches.
We still won’t call you when the time comes"**
 
I stated:
You stated I don’t see how you could possibly take my statement as bad manners.

The questions are asked here a lot, but I have to wonder why.

What could you possibly care what Orthodox think of your sacraments or your church or anything else? We really don’t have a formal opinion about your church because your church is not our church.

And we know our sacraments are valid, we know our teachings are true. We don’t need Lutherans or Baptists or Latin Catholics to tell us this. We just don’t. 🤷

We cannot commune with you and our priests cannot concelebrate. This is directly related to a difference in teachings, Orthodox don’t teach some of the things your church does. That’s all we know.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, it was not intended to. But we don’t bring the subject up. The question is always the same and the answer does not change.
We ask because as Christians we want to know what other Christian think. The question did not imply that you need Catholics to tell you if your way of doing things are valid or not. What the question did was ask were Orthodox stand on the validity of Catholic Sacraments not that we need you approval either, but as a point of discussion and understanding.

Since that does not seem to be of interest to you one would have to ask if your only reason for being here is to say we are right your wrong and there is no room for discussion to see just were that separation is you just need to do it our way.

As for not seeing how your statement was bad manners most people who are rude do not see that or they would not have been so in the first place.
 
Interesting that some on this thread, with 5000+ posts, claim to not care about what Catholics think. :rolleyes: I suppose they are here merely to proclaim their own superiority then. :rolleyes:

Very transparent to an outsider…
 
Well, I know as a Catholic on these forums from day 1 that quite often a ‘question’ will come up and my spidey-sense will start tingling. . .or I will be just so TIRED of seeing the ‘same old’ questions that I have already answered 10,000 times. . .or I’ll have just come off a thread where the ‘venom level’ is horrific and I’ll be feeling more than usually ‘sensitive’. . .

I’ll see a post, and while I won’t be rude or nasty, I may be a little more ‘terse’ or verging on brusque than I would have at another time. . . and, of course, if as the thread goes on I get more ‘insight’ into the poster(s) I can become more ‘specific’ and usually in doing that alone the ‘terseness’ disappears. Conversely, if as the thread goes on it becomes obvious through insight that the thread was started for less than straightforward reasons, I’ll either leave or continue with ‘terse’ (yet not rude) remarks since going into ‘detail’ would not ‘change’ the tenor and might in fact make things worse.

Now having seen how incredibly patient Isa is on other threads. . .I really don’t see his remarks as being any more ‘rude’ than some of my posts (or others-- and I hasten to add I personally don’t think them rude AT ALL or I wouldn’t have made them!! I;m just using the word ‘rude’ because that is how somebody apepars to have perceived certain remarks, that is all) which reiterate a Catholic position (see my sig below) may have appeared to somebody who ‘questions’ that position. . .over and over and over, naming no names of course (nobody on here yet, anyway. 😃 😃 )

Sometimes, the answer just 'is what it is."

It wasn’t Isa who said the ‘approval’ either-and even that remark I don’t find rude per se–I think (knowing again the person who made it to be a very patient ‘veteran’ of these forums). I’ve seen–and made–similar remarks myself. As a Catholic, I am not looking for Protestant approval, for example. That’s just the way it is.

I mean, think of how this would be, if it were us asked by Protestants if we think THEIR sacraments are valid. We would have to say no. (Even to the Lutherans and Episcopalians–most of whom would welcome us to THEIR sacraments, for example).

And it might look harsh. . .but it is true.

I think Isa is wisely trying to be as plain as he can without ‘putting us down’.

And while we Catholics and Orthodox do remain ‘saveable’ in each others’ eyes (and very much closer in most doctrinal issues than Catholics/Protestants and Orthodox/ Protestants), the split has been twice as long as the Protestant split, and thus the wounds, while longer ‘healing’, run deeper. We will (I firmly believe) be reunited first in the ‘reuniting’ that will most definitely occur, either in this world or the one to come–and that will be a great joy–but it won’t happen overnight. The mere fact that Isa will come onto a forum like this and speak, kindly but candidly, of his beliefs --and that we, for the most part, will do likewise. . .and (for the most part) without shouting matches of “You left us!” “Did not!” “Did too!” but a recognition of error on both parts and a growing conviction that there must be unity, with great prayer as to how to help bring this about–is a great good. . .and I hope as Catholics that we do our best to keep this conviction for unity growing by our firm commitment to it and our deep, abiding charity to our dear brothers and sisters in Christ --first, our Orthodox brethren and then of course our Protestant brethren and all humanity who (whether they know it or not) belong to Christ and whose salvation we seek in His name.
 
Interesting that some on this thread, with 5000+ posts, claim to not care about what Catholics think. :rolleyes: I suppose they are here merely to proclaim their own superiority then. :rolleyes:

Very transparent to an outsider…
I Peter 3:15.

and the OP ASKED specifically for the Church’s opinion.

I’ve posted several places that I believe in the “validity” of the Vatican’s sacrament, but also stated that that was definitely my own theologoumen.
I personally do, and prostrate whenever I come into a Latin church where adoration is goiing on, and cross myself passing a Latin church.

But that’s just my own theologoumen, and I’d never commune at a Latin church…
I knew I posted it.🙂

Someone posted yesterday that it was ironic that, responding to Protestants, that I was a great apologist for the Vatican. That’s fine by me.
 
Well, I know as a Catholic on these forums from day 1 that quite often a ‘question’ will come up and my spidey-sense will start tingling. . .or I will be just so TIRED of seeing the ‘same old’ questions that I have already answered 10,000 times. . .or I’ll have just come off a thread where the ‘venom level’ is horrific and I’ll be feeling more than usually ‘sensitive’. . .

I’ll see a post, and while I won’t be rude or nasty, I may be a little more ‘terse’ or verging on brusque than I would have at another time. . . and, of course, if as the thread goes on I get more ‘insight’ into the poster(s) I can become more ‘specific’ and usually in doing that alone the ‘terseness’ disappears. Conversely, if as the thread goes on it becomes obvious through insight that the thread was started for less than straightforward reasons, I’ll either leave or continue with ‘terse’ (yet not rude) remarks since going into ‘detail’ would not ‘change’ the tenor and might in fact make things worse.

Now having seen how incredibly patient Isa is on other threads. . .I really don’t see his remarks as being any more ‘rude’ than some of my posts (or others-- and I hasten to add I personally don’t think them rude AT ALL or I wouldn’t have made them!! I;m just using the word ‘rude’ because that is how somebody apepars to have perceived certain remarks, that is all) which reiterate a Catholic position (see my sig below) may have appeared to somebody who ‘questions’ that position. . .over and over and over, naming no names of course (nobody on here yet, anyway. 😃 😃 )

Sometimes, the answer just 'is what it is."

It wasn’t Isa who said the ‘approval’ either-and even that remark I don’t find rude per se–I think (knowing again the person who made it to be a very patient ‘veteran’ of these forums). I’ve seen–and made–similar remarks myself. As a Catholic, I am not looking for Protestant approval, for example. That’s just the way it is.

I mean, think of how this would be, if it were us asked by Protestants if we think THEIR sacraments are valid. We would have to say no. (Even to the Lutherans and Episcopalians–most of whom would welcome us to THEIR sacraments, for example).

And it might look harsh. . .but it is true.

I think Isa is wisely trying to be as plain as he can without ‘putting us down’.

And while we Catholics and Orthodox do remain ‘saveable’ in each others’ eyes (and very much closer in most doctrinal issues than Catholics/Protestants and Orthodox/ Protestants), the split has been twice as long as the Protestant split, and thus the wounds, while longer ‘healing’, run deeper. We will (I firmly believe) be reunited first in the ‘reuniting’ that will most definitely occur, either in this world or the one to come–and that will be a great joy–but it won’t happen overnight. The mere fact that Isa will come onto a forum like this and speak, kindly but candidly, of his beliefs --and that we, for the most part, will do likewise. . .and (for the most part) without shouting matches of “You left us!” “Did not!” “Did too!” but a recognition of error on both parts and a growing conviction that there must be unity, with great prayer as to how to help bring this about–is a great good. . .and I hope as Catholics that we do our best to keep this conviction for unity growing by our firm commitment to it and our deep, abiding charity to our dear brothers and sisters in Christ --first, our Orthodox brethren and then of course our Protestant brethren and all humanity who (whether they know it or not) belong to Christ and whose salvation we seek in His name.
Thank you.

Sometimes a wound needs to be cauterized.

But then it heals.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top