What is the point of music at Mass?

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turtle18

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Our priest today told us “he really wanted to hear everyone sing–to blast all four lungs with the closing hymn.” The problem is no one knew the closing hymn. If we are supposed to lift our voices and hearts in prayer through song, how is this possible when no one knows the music & no one can follow the lead cantor? Do music ministers just worry about how they are sounding instead of leading the congregation in a prayer? Are they doing it for their own self aggrandizement? For the preparation of gifts, the worship aid said we were going to sing “Ode to Joy”. It had the lyrics and notes in it. But then when it came time for the preparation of gifts, the choir sang a completely different song–not giving the congregation the chance to sing. Then the (unknown) Communion songs just had the lyrics, not the notes with it. So there was no way to even try to sing it without the notes being printed there. Then the pastor encourages us all to sing at the end but does he not realize we are not singing because the congregation can’t follow what is going on?
 
Sounds like it’s time to explain to the pastor exactly why the congregation isn’t singing. I know that nice hymnals are a big expense and that’s why many parishes don’t have them (our parish is extremely fortunate to have received a donation specifically earmarked for our hymnals). However, I have visited parishes that had obtained licenses to copy music, and had put together hand-bound songbooks for the congregation. It sounds like that might be a good option for your parish.

And please don’t use this as an opportunity to bash the cantor. I’m a cantor. We put a lot of work into practice and training to effectively lead the congregation in song. We do not do this for our own glory. Most times, we do not have any say in the music that we sing. We are there to serve God and the parish. I am sure that there are some diva-types who are not effective music ministers, but the majority of us know our place and purpose. If you can sing and read music, and do not feel that the music ministry is doing a good job, then I ask you, why are you not contributing your talents?
 
Could you elaborate some on all the work you all do to “effectively” lead the congregation in song? Do you all notice most of the time that the congregation isn’t singing? I am sure you do put a lot of time and effort into planning the liturgy but so does everyone else; in my opinion music is one of the main failures in liturgy–all we ever hear about when we try to address it is “well these people work hard” and no one ever mentions that alot of cantors are paid.
If you read my previous post, we weren’t even given the opportunity to sing the offetory song and then the Communion songs had no notes to follow with. And then there are a lot of parishioners who just don’t know how to read the notes.
 
We have two “diva” cantors. I find that no one sing when they are assigned to mass because their voices just drown everyone out and most prefer to just listen to their operatic voices. When we have cantors with more “normal” voices and who step back from the mike during congregational hymns, the people do sing.
 
turtle18 said:
Could you elaborate some on all the work you all do to “effectively” lead the congregation in song? Do you all notice most of the time that the congregation isn’t singing? I am sure you do put a lot of time and effort into planning the liturgy but so does everyone else; in my opinion music is one of the main failures in liturgy–all we ever hear about when we try to address it is “well these people work hard” and no one ever mentions that alot of cantors are paid.
If you read my previous post, we weren’t even given the opportunity to sing the offetory song and then the Communion songs had no notes to follow with. And then there are a lot of parishioners who just don’t know how to read the notes.
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I did read your previous post. No need to be snarky. It was Easter. Likely the choir prepared a special hymn in honor of the feast day. It was not intended to be a slight against the congregation. Of course some will take offense no matter what.

Also FYI, I’m not paid as a cantor. Neither are any of the other cantors, choir members, or handbell players. We freely volunteer our time and talents. The only musicians who are paid at my parish are the music director, the organist who fills in for him when he’s on vacation, and the guest brass and strings who play on Christmas and Easter. If your parish does not provide proper hymnals or sheet music then I seriously doubt that they are paying their cantors. Our parish values music as a form of prayer and worship. Our congregation does sing, because they see and understand the value in this form of prayer. If a parish doesn’t value music as prayer, it doesn’t surprise me that the congregation sees it as pointless.

As for the work that we do: besides the hours that we spend rehearsing our music- because we respect God and the parish enough to give our best- we work to properly enunciate the lyrics so that, for example, the congregation can understand the responsorial psalm verses. We work on voice projection so that we can be heard by people beyond the first two rows. We learn how to properly use microphones, if provided, to enhance sound without drowning out the congregation. Sometimes we teach new music to the congregation. We learn how to clearly announce hymn numbers (though we provide Mass bulletins, not all parishoners have one) and changes to the Mass bulletins. I’m guessing that some would assert that this is no big deal. I invite those to join our ranks and help us with this ministry.

You’re right that many in the congregation do not read music. However, you’re also complaining that you are not provided sheet music, only lyrics. If the congregation can’t read the music, then providing the notes would make no difference. So what would you suggest? Why don’t you take your suggestions to the parish?
 
SeekerJen said:
Most times, we do not have any say in the music that we sing.
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SeekerJen,
Please enlighten me,charitably. Who does pick the music in your parish? I know from talking to our music director, that Oregon Catholic Press “dictates” to her what is to be sung for a given Sunday. I think that may be taking the “easy” way out, but it has to be hard to come up with an original program for any given occasion. It’s just that I don’t know why,with all the great classic Easter hymns, we ended up singing “Morning has Broken”. Who’s picking the songs?:dts:
 
sinner said:
SeekerJen,
Please enlighten me,charitably. Who does pick the music in your parish? I know from talking to our music director, that Oregon Catholic Press “dictates” to her what is to be sung for a given Sunday. I think that may be taking the “easy” way out, but it has to be hard to come up with an original program for any given occasion. It’s just that I don’t know why,with all the great classic Easter hymns, we ended up singing “Morning has Broken”. Who’s picking the songs?:dts:
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It depends. Using the OCP selections is probably the easy way out, as OCP doesn’t have any authority. In our parish, the music director chooses most of the music (and fortunately he has very good taste) but occasionally he is overridden by the pastor, who prefers the “kumbaya” style. Usually such overrides happen as the seasonal schedule is being drawn up, but there have been mornings when I’ve gotten to church and found out 15 minutes before the start of Mass that half or more of the hymns have been changed. Again, as the cantor I have no say. I sing what is assigned. I don’t know how it works in other parishes. Maybe the cantors have a say elsewhere.
 
SeekerJen said:
Sounds like it’s time to explain to the pastor exactly why the congregation isn’t singing. I know that nice hymnals are a big expense and that’s why many parishes don’t have them (our parish is extremely fortunate to have received a donation specifically earmarked for our hymnals).
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When we decided to buy Catholic Book of Worship III (Canada’s national hymnal) a few years ago we first went to the congregation and asked them to donate the cost of one hymnal per family in memory of a loved one. Some people donated more than one and the Knights of Columbus donated more than a dozen in memory of deceased members.

It was a very successful campaign.We collected enough money to buy 125 missals by having the diocese order them for us from the CCCB.
 
Phemie said:
When we decided to buy Catholic Book of Worship III (Canada’s national hymnal) a few years ago we first went to the congregation and asked them to donate the cost of one hymnal per family in memory of a loved one. Some people donated more than one and the Knights of Columbus donated more than a dozen in memory of deceased members.

It was a very successful campaign.We collected enough money to buy 125 missals by having the diocese order them for us from the CCCB.
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That’s a fantastic idea! 👍
 
SeekerJen said:
Again, as the cantor I have no say. I sing what is assigned. I don’t know how it works in other parishes. Maybe the cantors have a say elsewhere.
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As a cantor, I never had a say in the selection of music at either church where I served. It was always up to the music director, leaving the cantor, the choir, and the congregation at his mercy. And it’s the same here, we are not paid for our musical services. Our only paid musicians are the music director (who is also the pianist), and the hired brass players for Christmas and Easter. The rest of us are there singing and/or playing our instruments out of love of music and love for God and our Church.

There are, however, a few diva-types out there who are singing/playing for less charitable reasons. I know one flutist who actually quit her church because they wouldn’t let her play often enough. :rolleyes: If someone like that wants to give a solo recital, go book a hall, hire an accompanist, and have at it, but don’t give the rest of a bad name by acting like a prima donna in church.
 
I used to plan the Masses at our Cathedral, my dad’s parish and the big diocesan celebrations. Even though we had to use OCP for the Spanish hymns, we used the Worship III hymnal (older translations). OCP is horrible. Those of you who have read my posts in other threads know that I have little tolerance for this publishing house.

Unfortunately, OCP has many parishes snookered, hook, line and sinker. They supposedly offer a little liturgical training guide that does not suggest any Sacred Music such as What Wondrous Love Is This, Jesus Christ is Risen Today, The Strife Is O’er or Alleluia, Sing to Jesus. Instead, you get their composers’ tripe, including the dreaded Lord of the Dance and Bob Hurd’s own sorry compositions. The Mass parts that OCP provides in their children’s hymnals are atrocious. The Agnus Dei (written by Christopher Walker) bears little to no resemblance to the actual words.

We chose solid hymns that were easy for the people to sing. For the Feast of Pentecost, we chose “Come, Holy Ghost” while the choir sang Veni Creator Spiritus. For the White Mass, we sang By All Your Saints Still Striving (verse dedicated to St. Luke). Even though the choir backed the congregation considerably, you could still hear the voices coming from the people in the pews.

The other huge problem with OCP is that many of its hymns celebrate the community rather than God. The OP askes what the point of music at Mass is. The point is that it is supposed to help elevate our worship to God. It is not meant to celebrate ourselves, as though we are the ones doing something magnificent. Everything is directed towards God. However, when OCP sings a hymn about “building up the community” and celebrating ourselves, then, there are some serious problems. Inasmuch as we don’t worship in a vaccuum, we don’t gather Sunday after Sunday to pay homage to ourselves. The Mass is about the Father and the Holy Sacrifice of the Son and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately, OCP and its 10,000 copyrights don’t reflect that at all.
 
You must have been at their high mass. Sometimes, the music at the high mass will be different from the rest of the masses because the choir is singing. If that is the case, they made a boo-boo with the music sheets. Someone should speak to the music director or the priest regarding that.

I can’t speak for all musicians who play/cantor for mass, but I can say for myself and many other colleagues who I know personally, that we aren’t doing it for self-aggrandisement. It’s a major form of prayer for them and they are very dedicated to give the best of the talents and abilities which were blessed by God. Those of us who are humble with our talents and are doing it for the right reasons know that it can be easily taken away from us and that everything we do is for the glory of God.

There are always “bad seeds” though. I’ve found that many of the diva-wannabes and the rockstar-wannabes tend to be people who have no music career outside of doing the music for mass. They take advantage of a “captive audience”, whether or not people want it. Sadly, it is all for themselves and not about God and helping to add to the spiritual aspect of the mass. And many times, those wannabes aren’t even that talented or are true musicians. I’ve known a few delusional ones which is just a sad and pitiful thing to witness. BUT in my experience, it is not the norm.

In terms of choosing music, I’ve cantored for many churches and the cantors have never had a say in the music selections. It is the music director and sometimes the pastor who decide.

Fortunately, for our parish, we do not use OCP. We have the Worship III hymnal and every Sunday we use music sheets so that we are not just relegated to only the music in the hymnal. The music for our high mass is slightly different from the rest of the masses because the choir sings and they do a lot of motets with congregational singing for the mass parts and the processional and recessional hymns.

I do have to say, although most of our parish are visitors (it’s a cathedral), they do tend to sing. My former parish really liked to sing as well. I believe it has to do with the way the organist supports the congregational singing and when the cantor sings like a musician. If the organist plays a hymn too softly, people tend to feel self-concious about being heard, so they won’t sing. If they play too loud, sometimes people won’t sing either because the loudness can be distracting. If the cantor decides to not sing a hymn according to how it is composed and adds her/his dynamics, changes in rhythms, etc., a congregation won’t sing. If the cantor sings horribly, they won’t sing, if the cantor doesn’t know how to step away from the mic, they will sometimes not sing.

Trained singers/musicians who understand, respect and love the liturgy know how to use their voices and other instruments in a way to not be a “diva”. They know it is a slightly different way of using their voices and are keenly aware of being sure to not cross the line into performing mode.
 
Clarification and correction:
B-gal said:
They supposedly offer a little liturgical training guide that does not suggest any Sacred Music such as What Wondrous Love Is This, Jesus Christ is Risen Today, The Strife Is O’er or Alleluia, Sing to Jesus
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This statement is inaccurate.

OCP music suggestion guide does suggest these songs. All of these particular examples and others. Quite often. Every Sunday includes a wide span of ages of music.

I’m NOT advocating OCP, yes, there’s bad stuff in there, agreed. Just correcting a statement.
 
Here’s my complaint about the music at our church. We have 4 masses per weekend, and usually 4 different cantors or choirs. It bothers me when a particular cantor or choir will change the way the songs or hymns in mass are sung. It is very distressing to be used to singing the Gloria or Lamb of God or whatever song or responsorial one way, and suddenly the new cantor or choir decides to change up the way it’s sung. Or better yet, changes the responsorial altogether. One week we’ll sing the great Amen as “Amen, amen, amen, amen” next week it will be “alleluiah, alleluiah, amen, alleluiah.” Or a particular singer will add pauses or tamborines or bells or whatever to songs that throws the usual singing off. Come on, pick a response and stick to it. It’s no wonder that the people won’t sing in mass. We never know how.
 
thomasf said:
Here’s my complaint about the music at our church. We have 4 masses per weekend, and usually 4 different cantors or choirs. It bothers me when a particular cantor or choir will change the way the songs or hymns in mass are sung. It is very distressing to be used to singing the Gloria or Lamb of God or whatever song or responsorial one way, and suddenly the new cantor or choir decides to change up the way it’s sung. Or better yet, changes the responsorial altogether. One week we’ll sing the great Amen as “Amen, amen, amen, amen” next week it will be “alleluiah, alleluiah, amen, alleluiah.” Or a particular singer will add pauses or tamborines or bells or whatever to songs that throws the usual singing off. Come on, pick a response and stick to it. It’s no wonder that the people won’t sing in mass. We never know how.
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There are various settings for the Ordinary of the Mass and every parish should know at least a few different ones and be able to sing whichever one is picked.

The ubiquitous setting these days is Haugen’s “Mass of Creation”. In Canada for years the favorite setting was Somerville’s “(New)Good Shepherd Mass” – it’s still my absolute favorite Gloria setting because it’s easy to sing and easy to pick up if you’re new to it; it’s also faithful to the words of that prayer of praise. Although we sing the MOC setting at Sunday Mass, I’ll still pick ‘Good Shepherd’ if I have to sing the responses for some reason. We’ve heard it so often through the years that it’s in our bones and no one misses a beat although we haven’t sung it at Sunday Mass for about 4 years.
 
I have said the same thing, why do some Music ministers assume that Joe Pewsitter cannot read music? Lyric sheets are nice for little kids, but come on - let us know the tune.
 
thomasf said:
Here’s my complaint about the music at our church. We have 4 masses per weekend, and usually 4 different cantors or choirs. It bothers me when a particular cantor or choir will change the way the songs or hymns in mass are sung. It is very distressing to be used to singing the Gloria or Lamb of God or whatever song or responsorial one way, and suddenly the new cantor or choir decides to change up the way it’s sung. Or better yet, changes the responsorial altogether. One week we’ll sing the great Amen as “Amen, amen, amen, amen” next week it will be “alleluiah, alleluiah, amen, alleluiah.” Or a particular singer will add pauses or tamborines or bells or whatever to songs that throws the usual singing off. Come on, pick a response and stick to it. It’s no wonder that the people won’t sing in mass. We never know how.
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Once again, don’t blame the cantor/choir. We don’t pick the Mass settings. We sing what is assigned to us, same as with the hymns. Blame the director of music or the organist if the Mass setting changes at random.
 
agapewolf said:
Clarification and correction:

This statement is inaccurate.

OCP music suggestion guide does suggest these songs. All of these particular examples and others. Quite often. Every Sunday includes a wide span of ages of music.

I’m NOT advocating OCP, yes, there’s bad stuff in there, agreed. Just correcting a statement.
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However, when I was shown the OCP it didn’t make very many allowances for Traditional, Sacred Music. The music director told me that she is limited to only using what is there. OCP seem to enjoy plugging stuff from their aresenal of composers rather than anything that comes from the Church’s complete Treasury of Sacred Music. Furthermore, the service music is limited to only one setting for children. Even that one is horrible because it takes excessive liberties with the Agnus Dei.

Spirit and Song is just as bad, if not worse. There is nothing in that hymnal (and its dreadful sequel) that comes close to the beauty of the Church’s rich tradition of Sacred Music.

It was very frustrating to hear a song from the Spirit and Song repertoire (it was #5) that was more like something you would hear at a Jazz bar as opposed to a Church.
 
benedictgal said:
However, when I was shown the OCP it didn’t make very many allowances for Traditional, Sacred Music. The music director told me that she is limited to only using what is there. OCP seem to enjoy plugging stuff from their aresenal of composers rather than anything that comes from the Church’s complete Treasury of Sacred Music. Furthermore, the service music is limited to only one setting for children. Even that one is horrible because it takes excessive liberties with the Agnus Dei.

Spirit and Song is just as bad, if not worse. There is nothing in that hymnal (and its dreadful sequel) that comes close to the beauty of the Church’s rich tradition of Sacred Music.

It was very frustrating to hear a song from the Spirit and Song repertoire (it was #5) that was more like something you would hear at a Jazz bar as opposed to a Church.
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Who is limited? No one is limited to the liturgy planning guide if they (or their pastor) doesn’t want to be. I look at the liturgy guide…sometimes pick what is in there, but most of the time, pick other songs as well. There’s no requirement that someone only follows a liturgy planning guide. OCP simply makes suggestions (yes, some are bad) …they hold no one to following them.

OCP is a publishing house, so of course they will plug their own stuff. Nothing wrong with that. Its up to the parishes to choose it or not choose it.

World library publications pushes their own selections as well. Every song they publish is given an impramatur.

#5 from SPirit and Song is of the Gospel genre, not Jazz. There is a difference. (although some similarities). I’m not arguing that makes it right, just clarifying another inaccuracy.
 
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