What is the point of music at Mass?

[Ghoti]

In CBW III you’ll note that each hymn that is copyrighted is so indicated.

“All People…” is in the public domain but 2 hymns over, same OLD HUNDREDTH tune, “Rejoice in God” has lyrics “Used by permission”.

As for Bibles, the translation is copyrighted.

My point. Use the airs and lyrics that are public domain. I think you could have quite a nice selection of good stout -]yeomen/-] hymns that most everybody knows or can easily follow. And not one clap (happy or otherwise ) in sight.

 

[Phemie]

I actually liked that rendition. I heard it as the Lord’s Prayer before I knew it came from Jesus Christ Superstar. We had a teenage girls’ choir, and they had very soft, gentle voices. I really used to like it when they sang at Mass. They also did very nice versions of the softer Christmas carols. I also remember the church itself: a little basement affair in a school building, while they were saving up money to build a church.

I dunno. Maybe things look better thru the lenses of nostalgia.

For those of us of a certain age the tune always brings to mind the lyrics “He’s a man, he’s just a man, and I’ve had so many men before, in very many ways…he’s just one more.” Very disconcerting when you’re supposed to be saying the Our Father. Not to mention that the words to the Our Father don’t fit that tune very well at all so they were never sung on the same notes from Sunday to Sunday.

 

[Ghoti]

My father was in the choir in his parish for a while. The choir director chose what hymns were being used, and declined numerous suggestions from the choir and the congregation. She always liked to do things with more complex or showy harmonies.

She apparently didn’t limit her editing to airs, either. The choir practiced “Stille Nacht” for Christmas – in German. Good enough, but she changed the words: the line “Holder Knabe im lockigen Haar”. to “Holder Enden…” Apparently she didn’t think it was proper to call Jesus a “Knabe”, the views of Fr Mohr & Mr Gruber notwithstanding.

 

[Sarabande]

It must be remembered that in small parishes you have to take what you get in terms of music at liturgy.

The other day the de facto DM approached me to ask
“Should we sing this piece this way or that way?”
“Er, how about as it’s written?”
“Oh, I don’t want to confuse the choir who are used to singing it their own way.”
Okaaay, then.

This is sometimes the case, but other times with hymns, especially, it is to make it easier for the congregation to sing or what they are used to hearing. For hymns, it’s not so bothersome to slightly change it to accomodate for the ease of the congregation - as long as it is CONSISTANT - not changing from week to week. (It’s different for compositions in the classical music genre and musicians tend to not want to deviate unless the composer left it for them to do so. You won’t hear a well-led choir deviating from the music with a motet by Byrd or Palestrina, although there might be some room for that in Brahms or other later piece - but the rules are more strict than in other genres.)

I’ve never studied music but when I’m holding a hymnal I can read the notation enough to know if there should be an instrumental segment, a whole note, an eighth, etc. Rarely does the choir sing what is there and that’s very confusing & frustrating for anyone who can read music.

An example of a hymn which is rarely, if ever, performed as written: “Be Not Afraid”. There are 16th notes, 8th notes, dotted quarter notes, a few syncopated measures, then look… we see quarter notes with two dots next to it, among other things. People with no musical training will naturally change the way it is written because it is easier to sing then trying to figure out how to subdivide everything. Musicians will accomodate that for them.

If a musician is doing it by himself/herself, they will usually perform it as written, but that is because they are not worrying about a congregation to sing along.

 

[Luigi_Organ]

Lady’s and Gentlemen: Having read all these posts about what good is music at mass I must respond.

90% of Caholic Parishes are cheap. When it comes to music and musicians nearly every Catholic Parish I’ve worked in found ways to cut back on what they spend on music, if they spend anything at all. May I remind you … you get what you pay for.

Most Catholic churches rely on well meaning volunteers who are not musicians at all. And tragically enought they hire music directors with no background in Liturgy, organ, choral conducting, voice, theory, etc. They mean well but they are simply untrained. So yes, they open an OCP guide and simply pick hymns. It is a farce to say OCP dictates hymns. How can a magazine tell you what hymns to sing? Music Directors need to know the cycle of readings inside and out and choose the hymns accordingly.

In my parish I am the principal organist. If someone wants to play the organ in our church they are required to study with me, free of charge untill I think they are ready. I insist they work with a metronome and learn how to play hymns properly. They are taught the difference between playing piano and the organ and are taught how to properly registrate the organ. Thus, every mass sounds they same. They may not be as creative at the organ as I am but they are solid and the congregation knows exactly what to expect and how they are to sing.

Our cantors are taught to back off the mic once the congregation starts to sing. There is no room for diva’s in my music ministry. If a cantor acts as a soloist, I remove them from service until they get the picture.

I pick the hymns. If a cantor has an idea, they are encouraged to come to me with their ideas.

Mass settings remain intact according to the seasons. One mass setting for Sept, Oct. Nov. then one for Advent. One for Christmas and Ordinarly Time, then one for Easter to get us to the summer months. We provide articles in our weekly bulleting about mass settings changing and why. We introduce only two new hymns each year.

If you are having problems with the way your music changes from week to week and you never know what to expect, I suggest you look into the qualifications of your music director and what your pastor/parish is spending on that position.

Things are different at our “High” mass with choir. But the folks who look forward to that type of music know exactly what to expect when they get there. If a hymn is listed in the worship aid, we sing it. We never take things out or add things at the last possible second. We stick to the program. If a priest tramples all over our music without any concern for the hours of time our volunteers give to the program that priest usually has me knocking on his office door first thing Monday morning.

A well prepared cantor who knows how to back off the mic and let the people enjoy the sound of their own voice in song coupled with an accomplished organist can solve 90% of the problems I am reading here.

We currently use OCP in my parish. We have put together a committee to lookinto Worship III and Gather Comprehensive. But with that being said, I look very closly to the hymns in OCP choosing only those with good solid theology behind them. I leave the “Be Not Afriad” music to our folk group. All our other masses sing only solid Catholic music and our congregation seems very happy with that.

 

[SeekerJen]

Lady’s and Gentlemen: Having read all these posts about what good is music at mass I must respond.

90% of Caholic Parishes are cheap. When it comes to music and musicians nearly every Catholic Parish I’ve worked in found ways to cut back on what they spend on music, if they spend anything at all. May I remind you … you get what you pay for.

Most Catholic churches rely on well meaning volunteers who are not musicians at all. And tragically enought they hire music directors with no background in Liturgy, organ, choral conducting, voice, theory, etc. They mean well but they are simply untrained. So yes, they open an OCP guide and simply pick hymns. It is a farce to say OCP dictates hymns. How can a magazine tell you what hymns to sing? Music Directors need to know the cycle of readings inside and out and choose the hymns accordingly.

In my parish I am the principal organist. If someone wants to play the organ in our church they are required to study with me, free of charge untill I think they are ready. I insist they work with a metronome and learn how to play hymns properly. They are taught the difference between playing piano and the organ and are taught how to properly registrate the organ. Thus, every mass sounds they same. They may not be as creative at the organ as I am but they are solid and the congregation knows exactly what to expect and how they are to sing.

Our cantors are taught to back off the mic once the congregation starts to sing. There is no room for diva’s in my music ministry. If a cantor acts as a soloist, I remove them from service until they get the picture.

I pick the hymns. If a cantor has an idea, they are encouraged to come to me with their ideas.

Mass settings remain intact according to the seasons. One mass setting for Sept, Oct. Nov. then one for Advent. One for Christmas and Ordinarly Time, then one for Easter to get us to the summer months. We provide articles in our weekly bulleting about mass settings changing and why. We introduce only two new hymns each year.

If you are having problems with the way your music changes from week to week and you never know what to expect, I suggest you look into the qualifications of your music director and what your pastor/parish is spending on that position.

Things are different at our “High” mass with choir. But the folks who look forward to that type of music know exactly what to expect when they get there. If a hymn is listed in the worship aid, we sing it. We never take things out or add things at the last possible second. We stick to the program. If a priest tramples all over our music without any concern for the hours of time our volunteers give to the program that priest usually has me knocking on his office door first thing Monday morning.

A well prepared cantor who knows how to back off the mic and let the people enjoy the sound of their own voice in song coupled with an accomplished organist can solve 90% of the problems I am reading here.

We currently use OCP in my parish. We have put together a committee to lookinto Worship III and Gather Comprehensive. But with that being said, I look very closly to the hymns in OCP choosing only those with good solid theology behind them. I leave the “Be Not Afriad” music to our folk group. All our other masses sing only solid Catholic music and our congregation seems very happy with that.

You sound like a real gift and treasure to your parish. My parish is also fortunate to have a music director trained in sacred music and organ performance (I believe his official degree is Sacred Music). I wish all parishes were so blessed.

We replaced our RitualSong hymnals with Gather Comprehensive two years ago (in fact, the first time I used mine was on Easter 2006). Overall I like them. The psalm setting variety is somewhat lacking, compared to RitualSong, but there is a wide variety of hymns ranging from traditional plainsong chant (some have Latin verses included) to Glory and Praise era stuff (including some absolute disasters which we rarely if ever use, thank goodness). Our parish tends toward a mix with emphasis on English-language standard organ hymns (e.g. “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name”). For example, today we used “Alleluia, Alleluia, Let the Holy Anthem Rise” as our processional, a Haugen setting of Psalm 118, “Without Seeing You” (very recent hymn, not super, but appropriate for today’s gospel) for the offertory, the Mass of Angels and Saints setting for the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the English translation of “O Fili et Filiae” for the communion hymn, and “Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones” for the recessional. All of these are in Gather Comprehensive.

 

[Guitar]

Luigi, I agree 100% with 98% of what you say, and parishes are definitely, well, “cheap” is a polite way of putting it.

In terms of you get what you pay for, though … I’m paid for freelance work but not for my regular “post” and I’m not formally qualified either but without “blowing my own trumpet”, everything you’ve said here is exactly what I’ve worked out for myself just by thinking about what I’m there to achieve and how best to achieve it. And I have worked with very talented, qualified organists who have no feel whatsoever for accompanying singing … they can drive their instrument but the congregation is left to sing along at the same time rather than being deliberately drawn in, guided and supported. I dunno. I’m 100% in favour of as much training as we can all get, don’t get me wrong, but maybe it’s just me, I can’t see why so much of this isn’t self-evident to both the trained and the untrained.

I have felt for years that the problem with much church music is that many “practitioners” are, exactly as you say, not musicians at all. Father finds out that X learned piano at school and presses him/her into service, but X hasn’t played since then and their exposure to music of any sort since has been incidental. X doesn’t attend concerts, X doesn’t select music they like to play and really listen to it, has no sense of historic style or what’s idiomatic to particular instruments or voice types, or how to gauge what their congregation will find singable or otherwise … music at Mass is not music for its own sake but I can’t see how you can do the job well without being a music appreciator in the first place. I think you have to understand how the thing itself “ticks” before you can “use” it for a particular purpose.

(And that’s not intended to criticise the Xs of this world who sometimes do their level best under a lot of pressure that priests and other “well meaning” folk should never have put them through.)

 

[Luigi_Organ]

Is there really a “perfect” hymnal out there to serve the needs of large Catholic Parishes? If I had my way we would use the Adoramus Hymnal. (Smiling here)

We are pressured to find a hymnal that will serve the needs of our Folk Group along with our traditional services. In comparishon, our Adult Choir sings apprx. 48/50 times a year and our Folk Group sings about 17. So what do we do? Which hymnal would be a perfect one for us to invest in? It’s a tricky decision. Which segment of the congregation/style of worship ends up with the perfect book?

Any suggestions out there?

 

[Luigi_Organ]

Guitar… BRAVO! You touch a very important point. An accomplished organist may or may not have that special gift of exactly how to accompany a worship service. Preludes and Postludes aside, it takes a spiritual and sensitive musician who knows just how to guide a congregation through prayer using their instrument as the means. After years of being on the bench, attending the Peabody Conservatory in organ and teaching countless organists and pianists (who want to learn organ properly) the gift of that undescribable inner sensitivity behind the console cannot be taught. You either have it or you don’t. It is indeed an extra gift from God.

Having the proper training on ones instrument makes that journey to oneness with God more possible but not in itself complete. It takes practice, lessons, guidance, dedication and prayer and a complete understanding of the litrugy and ritual.

 

[Sarabande]

Guitar… BRAVO! You touch a very important point. An accomplished organist may or may not have that special gift of exactly how to accompany a worship service. Preludes and Postludes aside, it takes a spiritual and sensitive musician who knows just how to guide a congregation through prayer using their instrument as the means. After years of being on the bench, attending the Peabody Conservatory in organ and teaching countless organists and pianists (who want to learn organ properly) the gift of that undescribable inner sensitivity behind the console cannot be taught. You either have it or you don’t. It is indeed an extra gift from God.

Having the proper training on ones instrument makes that journey to oneness with God more possible but not in itself complete. It takes practice, lessons, guidance, dedication and prayer and a complete understanding of the litrugy and ritual.

Very eloquently stated. This is so true. I’m in total agreement with you here. You can’t teach sensitivity to a person. It has to be experienced and known to that person on his/her own. Some people have no “soul” when they play or sing. No matter how well they play their instrument, it just doesn’t move. But if that person is truly open spiritually during his/her training and life, the soul comes out and that oneness with God, as you describe, is achieved.

Also excellent points in your previous post. I’ve also found the same as you described with many of the problems in many parishes. It’s so frustrating when you have to work with egotistical non-musicians - people who never really had any training and can’t play their way out of a paper bag, but actually think they are something special with no humility whatsoever. I feel like it’s an insult to God and to the congregation in their prayer. (I’m not talking about those are just humbly trying their best - that’s a different kind of frustrating, but something much more palatable and workable if you have to work with that.)

 

[Halo]

Have to agree with Benedictgal’s observation on type of hymns sung at Mass. It seems that nowadays so many of the songs seems to be singing about ourselves and not giving glory to God at all. Some lines from some hymns seem so wrong, I can’t imagine whoever approved of them. Eg. " when we love one another as Christ has loved us we become God’s daughters and sons" now how could that we right? Do people really think about the words when they are singing? Pity really because some of the music is lovely but the words are awful.

 

[Luigi_Organ]

Every Hymn should be examined for it’s liturgical context. Once again, this is done by a competent music director. The reality is we hire non competent director’s (in most parishes not all) who have not a clue on this issue. In my perfect world (in my daydreams) every music director would know the text of EVERY verse of EVERY hymn they choose as would the clergy. Judging by how many of our Celebrants process out on the first verse of closing hymn if there should be one, we can only guess that not everyone in most parishes have a clue as to what they are singing or the theology behind their hymns. With the amount of people talking over the closing hymn (because Father has left the building, etc.) we can only solidify the above thoughts.