What is the Polish National Catholic Church?

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Last Saturday, my husband and I were invited to the wedding of the daughter of a long-time friend who is Roman Catholic. Our friend said the wedding was going to be at a Catholic Church. When we arrived, we noticed the sign out front identified the church as a Polish National Catholic Church. It turns out it is the church the groom’s family attends. There was a man dressed in simple white robes, so I asked if he would be presiding over the ceremony. He said yes. I asked whether his church was in communion with Rome and he said that they were not in communion with Rome, but that they were in “dialog”. I also wondered whether we should take communion. He explained that the bride & groom had not requested a communion service, but that we would be welcome to take communion with them had it been offered. I wasn’t real comfortable with that…

So… does anybody out there know anything about the Polish National Catholic Church? We’re just curious how they originated. The church itself certainly looked Catholic. There were kneelers, stations of the cross, statues of the Virgin Mary, the Virgin of Guadalupe, etc… If we hadn’t noticed the sign out front, we never would have guessed it wasn’t Roman Catholic.

Our friend did mention that his cousin, who is very devout Roman Catholic and had once studied for the priesthood, preferred not to attend…
 
Most Roman Catholic parishes have the following somewhere in their missalette:
**For our fellow Christians **
We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ’s prayer for us “that they may all be one” (Jn 17:21).
Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3).
Also, Roman Catholics are allowed, under certain circumstances, to request communion from an Orthodox, Assyrian, or PNCC priest.
 
The PNCC originated in Scranton, PA in the late 1800’s when Polish immigrants felt that they were being treated badly by the Irish hierarch in that diocese. They apparently wanted to have a Polish bishop appointed for them, and Rome could not or would not grant the request. The Polish people also were requesting to have a say in choosing the priests for the parish, and to have control of the parish finances. Apparently, this was how many of te Polish Catholic churches in Poland were run. From the articles I have read, the “requests” were more like “demands” and it seemed to me upon reading the different versions of the origin of the PNCC, there was some blame on both sides. After several years of these requests and being denied, the parish broke off from the diocese of Scranton. They got a Polsih priest (Francis Hodur) from a nearby town to leave his parish and lead their new “community” as their priest.

They went on for several years like this and Fr. Hodur eventually had to look around for someone to consecrate him as a bishop so that the community could continue. I think they also knew that they could not attract new parishioners without Apostolic Succession, and they eventually had Hodur consecrated by a bishop from the Old Catholics in line with the Union of Utrecht - which was a union of bishops/dioceses in the Netherlands who broke from the Church after the first Vatican Council over the issue of Papal Infallibility and other issues. They are a schismatic church.

The Polish National “Catholic” Church was alligned with the Old Catholic Church for many years, and still also hold to the Declaration of the Union of Utrecht. A few years ago, the Old Catholic Church ordained women as priests, and the PNCC broke their intercommunion with them. They are in dialog with the Catholic Church and because of the technicality of Apostolic Succesion we do allow for intercommunion in a limited way. If a Catholic were in a hospital and needed to receive last rites or communion, they could receive from a Polish National priest. Generally, they will administer Holy Communion to anyone who attends their mass and claims to believe in the True Presence.

I would beware of the PNCC. They are in schism (although, I am told we are not supposed to use that word nowadays). But in Fr. Hodurs’s own words, they severed themselves from the Catholic Church. Look up a book on him from the PNCC bookshop called Works and Writings of Francis Hodur. Although they are in many ways, very Catholic in appearance, and they do have valid sacraments and valid orders, these are illicit. This means that their masses and sacraments are valid but not legal. Many of the priests in the PNCC are former Catholic priests who have left the Catholic Church, and have gone over due to differences with their bishops or because they could not deal with celibacy (the PNCC allows a married clergy). The fact that there are so many ex-Catholic priests in the PNCC is one of the reasons that the dialog between the two bodies is at something of a standstill now.

Another difference is that of General Confessions - in the Catholic Church, General Confession is reserved to those instances where it would be impossible for people to get to confession in an “ordinary” way. Such as if you are on a sinking ship and there is a Catholic priest aboard who offers to grant General Absolution to the people. If these people were to survive, any of the Catholics on board would be obligated to seek confession to “reconfess” their sins that that they had confessed to God during the time of the General Confession/Absolution. In the PNCC, General Confession is done near the beginning of every mass, and the people confess their sins to God and then the priest gives everybody absolution and then they get on with the mass, and everybody can come forward.

I see this as a dangerous practice, because I believe that actually “speaking” our sins to someone else helps us to grow in humility. Knowing that I will have to go to a priest and either face him or speak through a screen, forces me to think about my sins and helps me to come to a state of contrition for my sins. I think if I were to practice confession in the way that the PNCC does it, I would become very lax in even giving much thought to my sins. I do not think they go through an examination of conscience during this penitential rite at the mass, and I believe it is done rather quickly. If I were really trying to take the time to go over my sins in my head and heart, I don’t think I would be able to really do a good review of them, and so I don’t think I would really feel contrition for my sins.

The PNCC mandates private confession up to the age of 16, but then after that, they generally encourage the use of the general confession/absolution method. They will hear private confessions if requested. I just think it is a dangerous spiritual practice to get into.

There are some other differences in the sacraments also. The PNCC recognizes 8 sacraments (they count Baptism and Confirmation as one and then they add the sacrament of the Word of God). In many websites, you will see them say they recognize 7 sacraments, but that is because they combine Baptism and Confirmation. Other sites will say they have 8 sacraments.

In their catechism, they say that they believe that everyone will be saved eventually. Fr. Hodur did not believe in the eternal damnation of hell, just that if you went to hell, eventually you would be released to heaven. This contradicts the Scriptures.

The PNCC has a Constitution which states that although they are no longer in communion with the Union of Utrecht, they do still adhere to the Declaration of Utrecht. In this declaration, they say that they reject the primacy and authority of the pope and the infallibility of the pope. They only say that the pope has a primacy of honor and of an equal among equals. They therefore do not recognize any dogmas pronounced by any popes, and they do not recognize dogmas generally, from after the first 4 or 7 councils. That number changes depending on the site you are reading. They do not have the same understanding of Original Sin, saying that the stain of the sin of Adam & Eve was not passed on to succeeding generations. They reject the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption because they were pronounced by a pope. They do however, recognize these, and have masses on the days of the Immaculate Conception and Assupmtion. This could be partly due to the fact that so many of their parishioners and priests were formerly Catholic, and they do believe in these.

The PNCC is a schismatic church, and is not in union with the Catholic Church. Their masses do not fulfill the Sunday obligation for a Catholic. On the PNCC website: www.pncc.org, it identifies itself as a “Christian denomination,” although many of its parishes are very “Catholic” in appearance and practice. In effect, it is a non-Catholic Christian church which has Catholic sacraments and statues, etc. They do not distribute Communion in the hand, but use the method of intincture instead (personally, I prefer this method), and therefore, they do not use Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (again, I would prefer not to have these myself…). Their liturgy uses a mixture of the old Roman Missal before 1962 - but said in English - and some of the newer Novus Ordo changes. For instance, in the PNCC, they do the Sign of Peace, and they use the newer versions of the Great Amen after the Doxology. Perhaps the way the liturgy is done is different at different PNCC parishes. I have been told by a former PNCC priest that in many dioceses and parishes, there is a more “Catholic” feel to the liturgy and in others, it is more “Protestant” feeling. That is how he described it - he said that some of the northern dioceses are very much more Protestantized, and in the General Synods (held every 4 years), these dioceses try to bring up many modernizations to vote on. He told me that he left the PNCC priesthood and church because he feared that eventually he would wake up one day and find that the PNCC had become Protestant. In fact, due to the manner of the protestations in bringing about the PNCC’s origins, it IS protestant, with many Catholic elements. Valid but still, illicit.

Its name does say “Catholic” but in order to be called “Catholic” a church has to be in union with the Communion of the Catholic Church, which has its center in Rome.

I pray that one day it, and all schismatic churches and groups, will be in union with the Catholic Church. Until then, it is not good for Catholics to attend PNCC masses.
 
What a wonderful explanation! I had always assumed that it had originated in Poland.

The PNCC is, I believe, loosely affiliated with the churches of the Anglican Communion. Is that correct?
 
What a wonderful explanation! I had always assumed that it had originated in Poland.

The PNCC is, I believe, loosely affiliated with the churches of the Anglican Communion. Is that correct?
No. But beginning in 1946, there was a declaration of intercommunion between the PNCC and the Angician Communion, and PNCC bishops began to take part in consecrations of Anglican bishops (the same thing had begun, with the Anglicans and the Old Catholics of Utrecht, in 1932). This is one reason that Anglicans generally reject the idea that they do not possess (at least at this time) valid orders. Always assuming the matter is valid, that is.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
some Polish parishes esp. in northern industrial cities with a large population of Polish immigrants did “secede” from their Roman Catholic dioceses in the late 1800s and join this sect, which is a rather loose federation. It’s history has been a little rocky, and affiliations with similar dissident sects comes and goes. (a lot of those parishes were named for St. Stanislaus, but not all).

This was part of the wider struggle that afflicted the Church in America at this time re: who really owns the church building and property, and who appoints the pastor: the congregation or the bishop. Conflicts between Irish and German clergy and bishops did not help the situation. Some of these parishes have since regained their Roman Catholic affiliation, the one in Cleveland only did so in the mid 20th c. but recently a parish in St. Louis reverted to the same situation and that dispute is still on-going.

I watch with interest developments in Britain where large numbers of Polish immigrants, desiring their own clergy, Mass in their own language etc. are butting heads with English clergy and fears of similar breaks are looming.
 
I had almost forgotten abut the PNCC until I found this. Great explanation listed above.

There are still a few of them here in Chicago, but to my understanding, the numbers here have dwindled since the 80’s due to the large influx of recent arrivals from Poland who follow the Roman rite.

Many have set up Polish missions here to keep most Poles aligned with Rome, but I know there is still one large PNCC in the area. I also know my aunt (who is Polish) and uncle married in a Chicago PNCC 30 years ago due to a divorce, but are regular Sunday Mass attendees at their local Catholic parish and never bothered with the PNCC again.
 
Hi…I have been doing some research for my friend who has asked me to be the Godfather of his new baby boy! He is PNC and is going to raise his son Roman Catholic. Can anyone tell me the process through which he must go to come in to full communion with the Church. I thought it may be as simple as going to confession and confessing being part of a schismatic church, because his sacraments are valid…I think. Anyone who has any insight, please post! Thanks!
 
Hi…I have been doing some research for my friend who has asked me to be the Godfather of his new baby boy! He is PNC and is going to raise his son Roman Catholic. Can anyone tell me the process through which he must go to come in to full communion with the Church. I thought it may be as simple as going to confession and confessing being part of a schismatic church, because his sacraments are valid…I think. Anyone who has any insight, please post! Thanks!
Baptism, as far as I know, is universally valid as long as it is performed with flowing water, in the name of the Trinity, and with the intent to baptize.

Beyond that, any priest should be willling to explain the finer points.
 
In terms of the appellation “Catholic” in the PNCC name, the Orthodox East has always used “Catholic” and is not in communion with Rome.

We certainly believe that the fullness of the Catholic Church is through union with Rome, but Rome itself has never balked at the PNCC using that term and is in a Eucharistic agreement with it.

They themselves affirm seven sacraments, even though their numbering is different, it hasn’t proven to be a point of extreme contention at the ecumenical discussion table, i.e. it is not something that is insurmountable in their eventual reunion with Rome (and I know of one parish of the PNCC that has reunited with Rome).

Bishop Hodur’s break with Rome at the time was prompted by what Polish Catholics in America felt was a Roman Catholic Church that tended to promote mainstream Anglo-Celtic assimilation rather than the maintenance of the cultural identities of people like the Poles. That posed a real problem for the Poles and also Greek-Catholics who, in their home country, had their religious/cultural heritage assailed by invading forces and whose Church was a bulwark of their national/cultural identity and self-defence.

Pope John Paul II came from that same tradition (indeed, in Poland to leave the Priesthood was tantamount to a kind of national treason). If we are willing to review that period of North American Catholic history through this prism of understanding, I think we will have a more irenical conclusion about the PNCC and also the return of many Eastern Catholics to the Orthodox Church at that time. The Church is a religious institution, to be sure. But it was always intimately linked with the culture and national fate of the peoples in which it made a spiritual home. We need to appreciate this and also the mistakes of the American RC Church in this regard.

Alex
 
I watch with interest developments in Britain where large numbers of Polish immigrants, desiring their own clergy, Mass in their own language etc. are butting heads with English clergy and fears of similar breaks are looming.
Got an article for that one? The Polish have always had Polish churches over here. The new wave of Polish immigrants have Mass said in Polish, never heard any rumblings of a break.
 
Got an article for that one? The Polish have always had Polish churches over here. The new wave of Polish immigrants have Mass said in Polish, never heard any rumblings of a break.
I would be skeptical too. My inlaws are are Polish and go to Polish-language mass often here in So. Cal. These are masses sponsored by a “polish” church that is part of the archdiocese of L.A. and the priests travel to churches in the suburbs to hold mass in Polish from time to time, and they regularly have mass in Polish at the church in town. I think since the time of JP II and before Poles are very much oriented towards Rome.
 
I just came across this thread, and wanted to comment on the entry by Merton Road.
  1. The term ‘Catholic’ means universal… it is not relegated to the sole and proprietary use of the Roman Catholic Church
  2. To clarify… communion is restricted to those who have been baptized and believe in transubstantiation
  3. General Confession/Absolution was (and is) allowed in practice in the Roman Catholic Church, but only under situations where death is imminent. The key element here, though, is that it is an accepted practice in the Roman Catholic Church and could be expanded if the Church wanted it to.
  4. With regard to the Word of God as a Sacrament, there was some discussion about that in the late 19th century, and when the PNCC was beginning as a unique entity apart from Rome, this idea was adopted. It has it’s origins in the thoughts and writings of the early Church Fathers, though.
  5. With regard to eternal punishment… the PNCC teaches that that the possibility of eternal punishment exists. However, we also teach that Jesus Christ, through “His freely chosen suffering… destroy[d] death, br[o]ke the chains of darkness, crush[ed] hell beneath His feet…” (Cannon of St. Hippolytus) Because we believe Jesus conquered Hell and He can bring a person out of Hell if He chooses.
  6. Where you stated that the sacraments are “Valid, but illicit” for Roman Catholics to receive from the PNCC, it is not always the case. Where there is a lack of pastoral presence of the Roman Catholic Church (most of the time due to a lack of pastoral care by local pastors with regard to hospitals, nursing homes and prisons), then the PNCC Sacraments are both valid AND licit for Roman Catholics.
  7. The contemporary rite that we use, while similar to the Novus Ordo in the Roman Church, was not taken in any way from the Roman Church. A subcommittee of our National Commission on Liturgy took a similar path that the Roman Church did prior to the Novus Ordo and went back to look at the worship of the earliest Christian Churches. It is similar because the same elements were used.
The bottom line is that the Roman Catholic Church and the PNCC, through 2+ decades of dialogue, have come to see that both are legitimate Churches, which share Apostolic Succession. The fact that the PNCC does not recognize the universal jurisdiction or infallibility of the Bishop of Rome is, arguably, the largest sticking point in the dialogue.

I just hope that this cleared up some of the confusion.
 
I would be skeptical too. My inlaws are are Polish and go to Polish-language mass often here in So. Cal.
Hi JHow. Based on what you said, I believe your inlaws go to a *Roman *Catholic parish that uses Polish. That’s not the same as a PNCC parish – although the RCC and PNCC do have very friendly relation with each other (see for example).
 
Hi JHow. Based on what you said, I believe your inlaws go to a *Roman *Catholic parish that uses Polish. That’s not the same as a PNCC parish – although the RCC and PNCC do have very friendly relation with each other (see for example).
History is easily forgotten, a lot of younger people have no idea what the conflicts which precipitated the schism were about or how things could get so bad. So they are skeptical.
 
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