What is the proper definiton of the word 'Protestant'?

[josephback]

I find it interesting that so many Protestants identify themselves as simply “Protestant” on this board.

A good reason to try and define the term. What does it mean?

 

[hn160]

I find it interesting that so many Protestants identify themselves as simply “Protestant” on this board. Does that imply that all Protestants believe the same things? Nope. They don’t. There are thousands of conflicting and competing Protestant denominations. The one thing they all believe is that the Catholic Church is wrong and that their particular denomination is right. The Bible tells them so (even though no two of them agree about what the Bible means). To name their denomination would tell us too much, like who founded their organization and when.

How do Protestants define themselves? Against the beliefs (real or presumed) of the Mother Church of all Christendom – the Catholic Church – founded by Christ in A.D. 33 for the salvation of the world.

Peace to all.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

I would never identify myself as a Protestant but only as a confessional Lutheran or preferably as an Evangelical Catholic.

 

[Carlan]

I would never identify myself as a Protestant but only as a confessional Lutheran or preferably as an Evangelical Catholic.

Hmmm, and yet you would have to say Luther was one of the original Protesters in his disobedience. Peace, Carlan

 

[josephback]

I would never identify myself as a Protestant but only as a confessional Lutheran or preferably as an Evangelical Catholic.

Nice icon on your signature!

 

[graceandglory]

I guess Quakers would also not fit the Protestant definition. But all of these groups–Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Quakers–regard themselves as Christians. Are they still considered Christians by Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox?

The difficulty is that here in America, hardly any church “start” comes from the Protestant “reformation.” They all start by themselves and just consider themselves Christian.

The Mormons, JWs, Quakers, and Oneness Pentecostals, all consider themselves Christians. I call them Protestants, because they are not a part of the One, Holy, Catholic Church. Sociologists have called the Mormons and JWs sects.
Some theologians have called them cults. Either way, it really is just a degree of how far from the One True Church they are.

I think for demographics sake, any Bible related Church that considers themself to be “Christian” should be considered Protestant.

They want to be Christian without belonging to the One True Christian Catholic Church.

 

[hn160]

Hmmm, and yet you would have to say Luther was one of the original Protesters in his disobedience. Peace, Carlan

We never called ourselves Lutheran at the beginning, that was a moniker that the Romist put on us. Luther abhorred having a Church named after him.

 

[Stepson]

We never called ourselves Lutheran at the beginning, that was a moniker that the Romist put on us. Luther abhorred having a Church named after him.

My friend haven’t you figured it out yet. You are a one legged man in an a$% kicking contest on this forum. No matter what you say, it is going to be met by a barrage of attacks. But on a side note, they will end their attack with some sort of saying like “peace.” That way they can uphold the “truth with charity” slogan.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Hi. The word 'Protestant gets tossed around here a lot on CAF, often as a challenge or slur and without definition. Just what is the proper definiton of the word ‘Protestant’?

Protestant

1. of or relating to one of the Christian churches separating from the Roman Catholic Church in the Reformation of the 16th century or from another Protestant church to defend beliefs and practices held vital (as the Refromation principles of justification by faith, the priesthood of all believers, the authority and suffiency of the Bible, and the right and duty of individual judgement in matters of faith), usually rejecting as unscriptural the ceremonial reverence of the saints, monasticism, clerical celibacy, and all but two sacraments, and marked by non-liturgical worship featuring preaching, emphasis on individual salvation or morality or on social reform, and sectarian divisions based on points of doctrine or observance

To Catholics; do either of these defintions have inherent problems of logic and/or inconsistency? If so, what?

Everyone PLEASE, but PLEASE be CHARITABLE in your responses

I prefer the definition I left in the above quote. A Protestant is a western Christian belonging to some theological tradition whose origins lie in the breakaway groups of the sixteenth century.

In addition, their distinctive beliefs can reliably be said to be consistently characterized by precisely the ones the above definition lists - sufficiency of Scripture, right of individual judgment, etc.

There are some exceptions - the Anglicans for instance don’t necessarily reject the notion of a sacerdotal priesthood distinct from the priesthood of all believers. But it remains true nonetheless that their roots remain in the Reformation of the sixteenth century, and that is a good litmus test for what constitutes “Protestantism.” Though many “non-denominational” types today don’t like to admit it, the fact is that their theology, praxis, and services are absolutely derivative of the breakaway groups of the sixteenth century.

Also, to attempt to include Mormons, JWs, and “Oneness Pentecostals” in this category of “Protestant” is absolutely laughable. Mormons are henotheists. JWs are Arians. Oneness Pentecostals literally have their own distinctive Trinitarian theology.

None of these three denominations’ defining characteristics stem from or are even consistent with the basic tenets of Protestant Christianity.

I guess Quakers would also not fit the Protestant definition.

Well, it depends. Some do, some don’t. The most liberal Quaker denominations admit they’re a distinct faith.

But all of these groups–Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Quakers–regard themselves as Christians. Are they still considered Christians by Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox?

Sadly, no. Mormons acknowledge the existence of multiple gods. Jehovah’s Witnesses have an Arian Christology. Oneness Pentecostals deny the Trinity.

These are huge differences from traditional Christianity, big enough that Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants really can’t consider these groups to be Christian.

The difficulty is that here in America, hardly any church “start” comes from the Protestant “reformation.” They all start by themselves and just consider themselves Christian.

True, but their roots - in theology, worship service practices, devotional praxis, etc. - come from Protestantism. In the case of these “non-denominational” churches, their theological roots lie in the Anabaptist (and sometimes more overtly Calvinist) tradition.

The Mormons, JWs, Quakers, and Oneness Pentecostals, all consider themselves Christians. I call them Protestants, because they are not a part of the One, Holy, Catholic Church. Sociologists have called the Mormons and JWs sects.
Some theologians have called them cults. Either way, it really is just a degree of how far from the One True Church they are.

I think for demographics sake, any Bible related Church that considers themself to be “Christian” should be considered Protestant.

They want to be Christian without belonging to the One True Christian Catholic Church.

I basically agree, except I don’t think you can call Mormons, JWs, and Oneness Pentecostals “Protestants.” And the dividing line is actually quite clear - these groups do not have a valid baptism (according to our Catholic faith).

The churches we all acknowledge as Protestant (i.e. Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Anglican, “non-denominational,” Baptist, Vineyard, etc.) definitely do have valid baptism.

My friend haven’t you figured it out yet. You are a one legged man in an a$% kicking contest on this forum. No matter what you say, it is going to be met by a barrage of attacks. But on a side note, they will end their attack with some sort of saying like “peace.” That way they can uphold the “truth with charity” slogan.

I know Catholics can often be insensitive on this forum toward Protestants. I wish to apologize for any offense we’ve given. I’ve seen examples of lack of charity myself here on these boards, and for what it’s worth, I often think people on this forum are grossly unfair to Protestants.

I’m sorry you’ve been met with such hostility, Stepson. Also, your comment about a one-legged man in an ***-kicking contest was hilarious. Not sure it was meant to be, but you phrased it in a really funny way (and I mean that as a compliment!).

 

[Stepson]

I know Catholics can often be insensitive on this forum toward Protestants. I wish to apologize for any offense we’ve given. I’ve seen examples of lack of charity myself here on these boards, and for what it’s worth, I often think people on this forum are grossly unfair to Protestants.

I’m sorry you’ve been met with such hostility, Stepson. Also, your comment about a one-legged man in an ***-kicking contest was hilarious. Not sure it was meant to be, but you phrased it in a really funny way (and I mean that as a compliment!).

I appreciate your words. Actually, I had already asked the forum master to delete my account. I was here seeing if the account had been deleted when I saw hn160 being attacked. I must confess, I couldn’t help my sinful nature by sending off one before I left. I expected to be called a “troll” or whatever a non-conformist is called on this forum. Then I can across your words.

Just in case someone still thinks I am a troll, here is (was) my reading list:

A Well Built Faith Joe Paprocki
Practicing Catholic James Carroll
Catholic and Christian Alan Schreck
Why I Am Catholic Garry Wills
Reformation Patrick Collinson

And I have recently gone to 8:30 Mass several times. My curiosity was genuine.

My story began here because, when I wanted to learn more about my way of worship (Lutheranism) I began reading the Book of Concordia. The more I read, the more I saw the Catholic Church staring back at me. I read history and found out how Luther adored Mary and said the Rosary. I then read how Luther, in the Small Catechism, instructed us to make the sign of the cross before prayer. So I did and it felt awesome! An outwardly sign of my love for God. Being physical beings, this is something I could feel. The word of God is GREAT but combined with something I can touch in worship besides the Word is even better. So then it got me thinking, if the Catholics were right by holding on to this, what else are they right about. Which lead me to my “Why religion is like a car going to the party,” analogy. But that is for another time.

That lead me on to this forum. Then I ran into the Catholics themselves. I will never forget that you cannot judge the masses by the few. I completely understand that.

But the attacks hurt regardless if they are ended with some sort of loving statement of “peace” or “God bless” on the end. To me, that is like someone calling you an idiot but adding no offense, as if somehow the no offense part erases the insult.

On this forum, Protestants have been called heretics, sinners, unsaved and sheep in wolf’s clothing etc… All this on the non-Catholic area of the forum. Has anyone wondered why someone asks a question of Protestantism and only one or two answer and the rest are Catholic.

Well, I for one was done with this forum. The books were going onto the shelf and I was going back to my comfort zone. Then I read your words. It leaves me with hope and encouragement to keep looking.

Someone a post back or two on the “troll” posting said something about presuming someones goals will not drive someone away; I say you are DEAD wrong. If these posts can keep me from the Catholic Church, they can certainly reinforce stereotypes that Christians are judgmental.

Look at the forum on Islam and women. The Holy Spirit lead the person here. So, the poster quotes the Koran and exposes their beliefs, and for it, they get both barrels. Now I do not agree with the Koran but a person is sharing their belief. Listen, ask questions, understand their point. Ask if they understand your point. Plant the seed and move on.

Now I know full well that after this post I will be called some derogative name. No prob. But to you Fone Bone 2001, I say thank you. May the Lord bless you and keep you. Keep you powder dry and keep up the good fight.

 

[guanophore]

I guess Quakers would also not fit the Protestant definition. But all of these groups–Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Quakers–regard themselves as Christians. Are they still considered Christians by Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox?

I always thought Quakers were Christians. Why would you say they don’t fit that definition?

 

[guanophore]

so implying that Protestants are akin to Korah is your idea of everyone staying charitable? Interesting definition…In any event, I guess as soon as God swallows up all Protestants in an earthquake we will know that God endorses papal leadership to the same extent that he supported the leadership of Moses…

The original use of the term “protestare” in relation to those who defied the authority of the CC was a reference to what they were standing up for and against. They perceived the authority appointed by Christ had become irrevocably corrupt, and needed to be replaced to restore purity to God’s Church.

 

[guanophore]

On this forum, Protestants have been called heretics, sinners, unsaved and sheep in wolf’s clothing etc…

Well, so are Catholics. I mean, there are heretics, sinners, unholy and wolves everywhere. If there had not been so many “catholic” wolves in sheeps clothing during Luther’s time, he would not have felt such a strong need to “protest”. Tetzel comes to mind…

All this on the non-Catholic area of the forum. Has anyone wondered why someone asks a question of Protestantism and only one or two answer and the rest are Catholic.

Actually, I have wondered that!

Well, I for one was done with this forum. The books were going onto the shelf and I was going back to my comfort zone. Then I read your words. It leaves me with hope and encouragement to keep looking.

I am glad you will not fall prey to the wounds of disunity. People on every side suffer from man’s inhumanity to man.

I thought it was despicable that Catholics put protestants to death during the Reformation. Imagine my shock when I found out that the Protestants did the same thing!

Someone a post back or two on the “troll” posting said something about presuming someones goals will not drive someone away; I say you are DEAD wrong. If these posts can keep me from the Catholic Church, they can certainly reinforce stereotypes that Christians are judgmental.

I don’t think it is the “presumption” that is the problem, but how one expresses themselves. I make such presumptions all the time, but that does not mean I share them with others.

Unfortunately, it is human nature to be judgemental. IT is a matter of what we are willing to do with our judgements. Can we set them to one side, and have a useful dialogue, or will we let them take us over and fall into uncharitable behavior?

Look at the forum on Islam and women. The Holy Spirit lead the person here. So, the poster quotes the Koran and exposes their beliefs, and for it, they get both barrels. Now I do not agree with the Koran but a person is sharing their belief. Listen, ask questions, understand their point. Ask if they understand your point. Plant the seed and move on.

A good word of wisdom to all.

It is a forum for debate, though. I think that most people come here expecting that, don’t they? If not, I encourage them to go over to the Catholic Living part, or the water cooler.

Now I know full well that after this post I will be called some derogative name. No prob. But to you Fone Bone 2001, I say thank you. May the Lord bless you and keep you. Keep you powder dry and keep up the good fight.

You should report those posts to the mods using the little triangle at the upper right of the posts. The forum rules are for everyone, not just those who are non-catholic.

 

[Neo_The_One]

Catholics call non-Catholic Christians Protestants, but usually non-Catholic Christians never use the word “Protestant”.

 

[Carlan]

I appreciate your words. Actually, I had already asked the forum master to delete my account. I was here seeing if the account had been deleted when I saw hn160 being attacked. I must confess, I couldn’t help my sinful nature by sending off one before I left. I expected to be called a “troll” or whatever a non-conformist is called on this forum. Then I can across your words.

Just in case someone still thinks I am a troll, here is (was) my reading list:

A Well Built Faith Joe Paprocki
Practicing Catholic James Carroll
Catholic and Christian Alan Schreck
Why I Am Catholic Garry Wills
Reformation Patrick Collinson

And I have recently gone to 8:30 Mass several times. My curiosity was genuine.

My story began here because, when I wanted to learn more about my way of worship (Lutheranism) I began reading the Book of Concordia. The more I read, the more I saw the Catholic Church staring back at me. I read history and found out how Luther adored Mary and said the Rosary. I then read how Luther, in the Small Catechism, instructed us to make the sign of the cross before prayer. So I did and it felt awesome! An outwardly sign of my love for God. Being physical beings, this is something I could feel. The word of God is GREAT but combined with something I can touch in worship besides the Word is even better. So then it got me thinking, if the Catholics were right by holding on to this, what else are they right about. Which lead me to my “Why religion is like a car going to the party,” analogy. But that is for another time.

That lead me on to this forum. Then I ran into the Catholics themselves. I will never forget that you cannot judge the masses by the few. I completely understand that.

But the attacks hurt regardless if they are ended with some sort of loving statement of “peace” or “God bless” on the end. To me, that is like someone calling you an idiot but adding no offense, as if somehow the no offense part erases the insult.

On this forum, Protestants have been called heretics, sinners, unsaved and sheep in wolf’s clothing etc… All this on the non-Catholic area of the forum. Has anyone wondered why someone asks a question of Protestantism and only one or two answer and the rest are Catholic.

Well, I for one was done with this forum. The books were going onto the shelf and I was going back to my comfort zone. Then I read your words. It leaves me with hope and encouragement to keep looking.

Someone a post back or two on the “troll” posting said something about presuming someones goals will not drive someone away; I say you are DEAD wrong. If these posts can keep me from the Catholic Church, they can certainly reinforce stereotypes that Christians are judgmental.

Look at the forum on Islam and women. The Holy Spirit lead the person here. So, the poster quotes the Koran and exposes their beliefs, and for it, they get both barrels. Now I do not agree with the Koran but a person is sharing their belief. Listen, ask questions, understand their point. Ask if they understand your point. Plant the seed and move on.

Now I know full well that after this post I will be called some derogative name. No prob. But to you Fone Bone 2001, I say thank you. May the Lord bless you and keep you. Keep you powder dry and keep up the good fight.

I am sorry if I or other Catholics have been offense, I am here to defend my faith Apostolic Christiany , I don’t claim to be perfect, i am a sinner, I do my best not to react negativly. I assume non Catholics visit these forums to learn what Catholics believe, after all, it is ‘Catholic Answers’ main reason for being. God bless you in your search for Truth Stepson and in His name I wish you Peace, Carlan.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Catholics call non-Catholic Christians Protestants, but usually non-Catholic Christians never use the word “Protestant”.

I grew up and lived many years as a Protestant. I called myself Protestant. Everyone Christian I knew who was not Catholic and not Orthodox considered themselves Protestant and called themselves Protestant.

Please tell me if this is your own opinion, or what is your source? Thanks.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Stepson, until you’ve seen what Protestants do to Catholics on Protestant forums, you ain’t seen nuthin’. CARM.com is just one example. Vicious is too tame a word for it. And the management encourages this treatment.

Read Seven Lies About Catholic History, Infamous Myths About the Church’s Past and How to Answer Them by historian Diane Moczar. And these are just seven of the false accusations that are continually made by Protestants against the Catholic Church.

Foxe’s Book of Martyrs is a total fabricated lie, quoted as fact by Protestants against Catholics often on Protestant forums.

We are accused of killing “millions” – more than the entire population of Europe.

Personal attacks are not allowed on Catholic Answers. But you should expect that Catholics will not agree with you about Protestantism in any of its many forms and that we will defend our Faith. But it isn’t personal.

Best wishes,

Jim Dandy
Former Protestant

 

[Esdra]

Originall posted by meltzerboy forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
I guess Quakers would also not fit the Protestant definition. But all of these groups–Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Quakers–regard themselves as Christians. Are they still considered Christians by Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox?

One vein of Quaker thought is that the Quaker movement is the culmination of the Reformation…some Friends even as the “rediscovery of New Testament Christianity”…not identical in form…but experiencing the same Risen Christ in their midst. Perhaps the “downsizing” from 7 sacraments to 2…or 3 if one includes foot washing as a sacrament/ordinance…to “rediscovering” by individual and corporate “experience” the Risen Christ who is living among us and is our true Teacher…not a book…or an eccleastical body…but Seeking to define in our lives what it means to be a “Christian”…are we truly living in the perpetual First Day of the New Creation as we act as leaven in society to speak and witness Truth…

I happen to accept that idea…that the Society of Friends “rediscovered” the immediate Presence of God and with God Present among us, the need for “ritual observances/outward forms” as means to gain God’s favor…instead, how one lives is the proof of whether one is a “Christian” or not…how closely we practice the Presence of God in our midst…“experiential Christianity”…a great gift for the world…but even Friends have lost the Vision or the Ocean of Light and Love covering the Ocean of Darkness and Death.

Not all Quakers identify themselves as “Christian”…but all Quakers identify themselves as “Friend”. “Up to now I have called you servants…now I call you friends”…“You are my friends if you DO what ever I have commanded you.”…so Quakerism is the culmination of the Reformation…no priests, ministers, rituals or rites to utilize as “worship”…instead, we draw Inward and then seek to express our faith Outward in the world in which we live…

This Quaker considers himself a Christian.

I mean, I do really know practically nothing about the Society of Friends (Quaker), but doesn’t that lead too far to name them together with JWs, Mormons and Oneness Churches?
Despite knowing this Church really well, I would never ever have doubted that they are not Christian… (Trinity, sola scriptura, sola fide; like the OP has written above)

 

[Jim_Dandy]

A good reason to try and define the term. What does it mean?

My answer: Protestant originally meant one who protests against the Catholic Church. It now defines any Christian who is not Catholic or Orthodox.

 

[Esdra]

I find it interesting that so many Protestants identify themselves as simply “Protestant” on this board. Does that imply that all Protestants believe the same things? Nope. They don’t. There are thousands of conflicting and competing Protestant denominations. The one thing they all believe is that the Catholic Church is wrong and that their particular denomination is right. The Bible tells them so (even though no two of them agree about what the Bible means). To name their denomination would tell us too much, like who founded their organization and when.

How do Protestants define themselves? Against the beliefs (real or presumed) of the Mother Church of all Christendom – the Catholic Church – founded by Christ in A.D. 33 for the salvation of the world.

Peace to all.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

Actually, Jim, I haven’t seen so many posters here labeling themselves on their profile as Protestants.
I have seen more labeling themselves Christian (like I do.)
And what I realized is that especially the SDA here like to label themselves Protestant and the few JWs. - Simply those who have to hide their affiliation.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I would never identify myself as a Protestant but only as a confessional Lutheran or preferably as an Evangelical Catholic.

Have you read Dr. Francis J. Beckwith’s Return to Rome, Confessions of an Evangelical Catholic? Beckwith resigned as President of the 4,000-member Evangelical Theological Society in order to come home to the Catholic Church. He’s an authentic Evangelical Catholic.

web.me.com/francis.beckwith/FrancisBeckwith.com/Welcome.html

Jim Dandy