What is the purpose of praying multiple times to God?

[Bohm_Bawerk]

It is usually asserted that if we pray for an intention multiple times to God, He will hear our cries more. But this strikes, to me as of now, as an absurdity.

It is generally accepted that God does not change His mind. Therefore, if we pray multiple times for an intention that God has deemed as “no” or “later”, what purpose would that serve if one were to continue accumulating the number of prayers? Isn’t the prayers said therefore in vain?

Again, leading on from this fact, would that not mean that a simple “Our Father” is equivalent to that a rosary? Is there really any difference in the effectiveness of a prayer, if God will not change His mind?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Prodigal_Son]

It is usually asserted that if we pray for an intention multiple times to God, He will hear our cries more. But this strikes, to me as of now, as an absurdity.

It is generally accepted that God does not change His mind. Therefore, if we pray multiple times for an intention that God has deemed as “no” or “later”, what purpose would that serve if one were to continue accumulating the number of prayers? Isn’t the prayers said therefore in vain?

Again, leading on from this fact, would that not mean that a simple “Our Father” is equivalent to that a rosary? Is there really any difference in the effectiveness of a prayer, if God will not change His mind?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

You’re assuming that God operates in time, so far as I can tell. If God sees everything in a flash, there is quite a difference between him seeing you ask for something ten times or once. I agree that the decision is only made once and for all by God, but I think he has all the evidence in front of Him when He makes that decision.

Jesus talked about the effectiveness of persistent supplication, and I suspect He was onto something.

 

[maryj]

Christ prayed the same prayers three times in the garden during His Passion. He returned to the same prayer three times. Persistent supplications? I imagine so!

 

[LongJohnSilver]

The purpose of prayer is not just ‘letting God know’. It is connecting to your Father, being intimate with Him by sharing your troubles and joys. By being persistent in praying for something, you show God that you have faith in Him and trust Him in hearing you and caring for you and the thing you pray for.

 

[rvilbig]

It is usually asserted that if we pray for an intention multiple times to God, He will hear our cries more. But this strikes, to me as of now, as an absurdity.

It is generally accepted that God does not change His mind. Therefore, if we pray multiple times for an intention that God has deemed as “no” or “later”, what purpose would that serve if one were to continue accumulating the number of prayers? Isn’t the prayers said therefore in vain?

Again, leading on from this fact, would that not mean that a simple “Our Father” is equivalent to that a rosary? Is there really any difference in the effectiveness of a prayer, if God will not change His mind?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

I’ve heard it said that we pray to God, not that He may change His will, for His will is unchangeable, but rather, we pray to God in order that He may change us. So praying to God multiple times makes us more malleable in His hands that we may be all the more adapted to doing His will. Make sense?

-Ryan Vilbig
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

 

[antroji]

Dear Bohm Bawerk,

I first learned that prayer is the raising up of the heart and mind to God. That in itself is worthy. And yet, I understand your feelings and observation about repetitive prayer. There is even an injunction against that in the Bible, though it is, I think, about mantras and such which yet have another use. We have the rosary which kind of fits that, but is meant as a contemplative device.

In my studies of comparative religion I have heard the injunction that “The work is already done.” That harmonizes with the idea of praying or asking as if you already have what you are asking for. Many new age thinkings are kind of takeoffs on this idea, but we don’t need to go there.

One of the most useful things, though, as far as your own questions, is what I heard as a quote from CS Lewis. He said once, “I pray to God not to change Him, but to change me.” And indeed, if there is a reason for multiple prayers, there it is. My own spiritual Mentor told me that “The purpose of repetition is penetration.”

That goes with practice, doesn’t it? I know when I write a letter or a post, I go over it several times, usually at least three. That way I can catch errors, adjust punctuation and continuity, and see if I have left anything out or run off at the mouth. It is literary teleology, if you will, on a small scale. Musicians do it, athletes do it, and astronauts on their way to the moon do it.

The same might be said of prayer. We can repeatedly pray about the same thing to adjust our own perspective on the matter. God is God, and that’s that. But we are here to adjust our awareness and our understanding to the greatest height possible while we are here. And that is why some prayers even last a lifetime, such as the prayer of St. Francis, or anything that speaks in particular to the part of you that loves deeply.

 

[tonyrey]

Eugen, not to pray more than once is a sign of impatience and discourtesy. It amounts to regarding God as a slot machine or a slave who merits little attention. The repetition is not mechanical if it is heartfelt and expressed sincerely. Don’t we repeat requests to other people to impress on them how important they are? If our request is urgent it is unnatural to make it once and then change the subject.

Prayer should be a conversation in which we express our faith, hope, love, gratitude and repentance as well as making petitions. Jesus Himself gave us the example of persistence in the parable of the man who persisted until his neighbour came and opened the door to get rid of him! Repetition is good for us because even if we are not concentrating on the meaning of the words our attention is directed towards God for more than a few moments. If it isn’t we are no longer praying!

 

[Axman]

The question Eugene asked is an important one, and one that finally is being addressed. . I would however , for the sake of clarity, make the distinction between multiple prayer wherein one prays for some intention say every day , and repetitious prayer as in the Rosary.
I have no particular objection to the former, as indeed this the way people occasionally speak to one another ( as when we remind someone of deeds undone…)
Repetitious prayer, however is subject to criticism. Nowhere in human conversations, are requests made in such a ludicrous manner. If I were to ask someone for a favor fifty times, in the same words, at the same time the likelihood would be that that the request would be not only ignored, but possibly the one being asked would be offended that I should think this approach to be effective. And when such words are spoken mechanically without advertence to their meaning, what is implied by this?
God and the saints are indeed “different” from we mortals, but they are not less .
Somewhere in its twisted history of pious literature , We have lost some of the basic respect for God & his saints, that we readily extend to each other.

 

[fhansen]

It is usually asserted that if we pray for an intention multiple times to God, He will hear our cries more. But this strikes, to me as of now, as an absurdity.

It is generally accepted that God does not change His mind. Therefore, if we pray multiple times for an intention that God has deemed as “no” or “later”, what purpose would that serve if one were to continue accumulating the number of prayers? Isn’t the prayers said therefore in vain?

Again, leading on from this fact, would that not mean that a simple “Our Father” is equivalent to that a rosary? Is there really any difference in the effectiveness of a prayer, if God will not change His mind?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

God is pleased by our earnestness-our sincere faith.

**Now without faith it is impossible to please God, for whoever comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who diligently search for him.**Heb 11:6

**Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

4"For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care about men, 5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually wear me out with her coming!’ "

6And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”** Luke 1:1-8

 

[Geremia]

It is usually asserted that if we pray for an intention multiple times to God, He will hear our cries more. But this strikes, to me as of now, as an absurdity.

It is an absurdity. We cannot change God; He is entirely immutable.

if we pray multiple times for an intention that God has deemed as “no” or “later”, what purpose would that serve if one were to continue accumulating the number of prayers?

Firstly, you are assuming prayers of petition are the only kind. There are also prayers of thanksgiving, adoration, and propitiation. Secondly, we should always be praying:[bibledrb]1 Thessalonians 5:17[/bibledrb]Prayer keeps you focused on eternal things, not transient, corruptible earthly things.

Isn’t the prayers said therefore in vain?

Bad prayers ould be vain, yes.

Again, leading on from this fact, would that not mean that a simple “Our Father” is equivalent to that a rosary? Is there really any difference in the effectiveness of a prayer, if God will not change His mind?

Prayer is to change us, not God. When we ask something of God, e.g., we are reminding ourselves that God does indeed give us our daily bread because He loves us so much.

On “Is it fitting to pray to God?,” St. Thomas Aquinas writes:

our motive in praying is not that we may change the Divine disposition, but that, by our prayers, we may obtain what God has appointed.

On “Should we ask for temporal things when we pray?,” he says:

We should seek temporal things not in the first but in the second place.

Viz., we should only seek them as instruments to seek God.

 

[Robin10]

Prayer is communication; not understood as a form of transmission (‘sending’ a message), but as a noun referring to a condition between two or more people (including God). It is a togetherness through which we change. Being in prayer with God enables us to become likened to God.

 

[Axman]

It seems curious that the answers given to the original question mostly concentrate on only the one part of that question ( why do we pray…) but ovoid the more pragmatic part : why repetitive prayers , so popular in church devotions and ritual.

Luke 1: 1-8 about the reluctant judge, is hardly a cogent response since nowhere in the story does the widow repeat an entreaty many times at each meeting with the judge. Also, the story in its analogical setting, seems to imply that God might change his mind.

The point is not about being earnest , or persistent , but the implied assumption that repetitiveness adds efficacy to our prayers and that without it such prayers will be ignored.
Granted some do believe this, Eugene’s original question: what are the reasons ?
And I am asking, Is this basic Catholic Belief ?

 

[Windfish]

It is generally accepted that God does not change His mind.

So? There are so many sources to draw upon to answer your question - Scripture, theology, Tradition, private revelation, and more. But why is this a problem? Is it not possible that God, in his providential plan, includes within it that we petition him multiple times like the woman in Jesus’ parable of the judge or like the friend calling his neighbor for a favor?

Praying prayers of petition many times is extremely important, friend. You must pray them many times, and when they are answered, give thanks just as many times or even twice as much!

 

[tonyrey]

It seems curious that the answers given to the original question mostly concentrate on only the one part of that question ( why do we pray…) but ovoid the more pragmatic part : why repetitive prayers , so popular in church devotions and ritual.

Repetitive prayers are used in every religion because they are like mantra which induce a state of contemplation. It is unrealistic to believe our attention must be focussed on every word we utter.

Luke 1: 1-8 about the reluctant judge, is hardly a cogent response since nowhere in the story does the widow repeat an entreaty many times at each meeting with the judge. Also, the story in its analogical setting, seems to imply that God might change his mind.

The point is not about being earnest , or persistent , but the implied assumption that repetitiveness adds efficacy to our prayers and that without it such prayers will be ignored.

“Forgive us as we forgive those…” If that were a futile petition Jesus wouldn’t have asked us to make it! The point is that God takes into account our prayers but He doesn’t make ad hoc decisions because He transcends time. The analogy shouldn’t be taken literally: “In Him we live, move and have our being…”