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JMJ_coder
Guest
For example, the relationship between the Coptic Catholic Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church?
What is the relationship between the Oriental Catholic Churches and their Orthodox counterparts?
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Personal viewpoints might differ but, officially the Coptic Orthodox Church does not regard the Catholic baptisms as valid. They only accept Oriental and Orthodox baptisms.
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UncleBill
Guest
I find this very hard to believe… I attend a Coptic Orthodox Church fairly regularly, the priest knows who I am and that I am a Catholic, he never fails to offer communion.
When I first started visiting this church I sat down with the priest after he offered me communion. I told him I was Catholic and that I didn’t think it was permitted for me to receive the Mysteries from him according to the rules of HIS church. I was told that as far as his bishop was concerned it was ok. The parish has been through three priests since then…all three are very happy to commune me. Their attitude is we are all the same Church…just wounded…communion will bring healing.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
In many cases they do not talk to each other. The weight of centuries of ill will is too much for their clergy and members to bear.
In some cases, if a young man or girl who is Orthodox wants to marry someone of Oriental persuasion, such a thing has been known to break up a family!!!
As I said, “Personal viewpoints might differ”. This doesn’t change the official view.
Example: Just because a Catholic priest supports gay marriage that doesn’t change the official Catholic view. This is the same with the Coptic Church.
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MorEphrem
Guest
Well my perception of the Western Syriac catholic churches and the Syriac Orthodox’s relationship is pretty decent. To my understanding, inter-communing is common and I’ve heard of bishops concelebrating.
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chaldobyzantine
Guest
When the new Coptic Catholic patriarch was enthroned earlier last month, Pope Tawadros II sat at an elevated place of honor and gladly spoke as well. I believe good relations exist among the Syriac and Armenian churches as well. I can’t comment on the Indian churches for lack of knowledge.
People tend to forget that in modern difficult times in the middle east, Christians cannot afford to have bad relations with each other. Learning from the past mistakes of the communities of Lebanon, all Christian churches have tried as much as possible to be together in solidarity against the obvious forces against them. The only bad relations I can think of between literally all the churches in the middle east are between the Assyrian Church of the East and the Coptic Orthodox Church, over not outright condemning Nestorius, Diodore, and Theodore as heretics.
God Bless.
People tend to forget that in modern difficult times in the middle east, Christians cannot afford to have bad relations with each other. Learning from the past mistakes of the communities of Lebanon, all Christian churches have tried as much as possible to be together in solidarity against the obvious forces against them. The only bad relations I can think of between literally all the churches in the middle east are between the Assyrian Church of the East and the Coptic Orthodox Church, over not outright condemning Nestorius, Diodore, and Theodore as heretics.
God Bless.
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suissemissed
Guest
UncleBill, I just thought I should mention that currently the Catholic Church does not allow Catholics to receive Communion in any Church other than a Catholic one, unless it is physically or morally impossible to attend Mass/Liturgy in a Catholic rite. Only in that circumstance is it permissible to receive the Eucharist at an Orthodox Liturgy, and then only if the danger of indifferentism is avoided.
*Canon Law 844, 1: “Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments to Catholic members of the Christian faithful only and, likewise, the latter may licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers with due regard for parts 2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and can. 861, part 2.” [emphasis mine]
Canon Law 844, 2: “Whenever necessity requires or genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for the faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose churches these sacraments are valid.” [emphasis mine]*
I checked, and this rule is also found in the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches (671, 1 and 2). I’m not trying to be a fault finder, I just don’t want to see you accidentally go against the Church’s regulations
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UncleBill
Guest
Don’t worry I have my bishops permissionUncleBill, I just thought I should mention that currently the Catholic Church does not allow Catholics to receive Communion in any Church other than a Catholic one, unless it is physically or morally impossible to attend Mass/Liturgy in a Catholic rite. Only in that circumstance is it permissible to receive the Eucharist at an Orthodox Liturgy, and then only if the danger of indifferentism is avoided.
Canon Law 844, 1: "Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments to Catholic members of the Christian faithful only and, likewise, the latter may licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers with due regard for parts 2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and can. 861, part 2." [emphasis mine]
Canon Law 844, 2: “Whenever necessity requires or genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for the faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose churches these sacraments are valid.” [emphasis mine]
I checked, and this rule is also found in the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches (671, 1 and 2). I’m not trying to be a fault finder, I just don’t want to see you accidentally go against the Church’s regulations
. My bishop said that as long as the Orthodox offered it was ok on the Catholic side…thats good enough for me. 
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amalthomas
Guest
No you are not right. Catholic church members are allowed to have commiunion from a syriac orthodox church of antioch and also mariage betweeen the persons in catholic and syriac orthodox is allowed without changing the rites.UncleBill, I just thought I should mention that currently the Catholic Church does not allow Catholics to receive Communion in any Church other than a Catholic one, unless it is physically or morally impossible to attend Mass/Liturgy in a Catholic rite. Only in that circumstance is it permissible to receive the Eucharist at an Orthodox Liturgy, and then only if the danger of indifferentism is avoided.
Canon Law 844, 1: "Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments to Catholic members of the Christian faithful only and, likewise, the latter may licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers with due regard for parts 2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and can. 861, part 2." [emphasis mine]
Canon Law 844, 2: “Whenever necessity requires or genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for the faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose churches these sacraments are valid.” [emphasis mine]
I checked, and this rule is also found in the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches (671, 1 and 2). I’m not trying to be a fault finder, I just don’t want to see you accidentally go against the Church’s regulations
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JMJ_coder
Guest
What is the rationale for no recognizing Catholic baptisms as valid, but doing so for the Eastern Orthodox, especially since their is not communion with either since the 5th century? On a related note, what is the Coptic Orthodox view on baptism in both theology and praxis?
It took a lot of inter-Orthodox discussion for them to concede to that. Originally, the Coptic Church did not accept Eastern Orthodox baptisms.
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dzheremi
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Since Zekariya has dealt with the first question, here is some exposition on the second in the form of an explanatory chapter on the Rite of Baptism in the Coptic Orthodox Church written by HG Bishop Mettaous, Abbot of the Monastery of the Syrians in Wadi Natrun.
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Vico
Guest
Directory For The Application Of Principles And Norms On Ecumenism
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PIN.HTM
- Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for any Catholic for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick from a minister of an Eastern Church.[Cf. *CIC, can. 844, 2 and *CCEO, *can. 671, 2.]
- Since practice differs between Catholics and Eastern Christians in the matter of frequent communion, confession before communion and the Eucharistic fast, care must be taken to avoid scandal and suspicion among Eastern Christians through Catholics not following the Eastern usage. A Catholic who legitimately wishes to communicate with Eastern Christians must respect the Eastern discipline as much as possible and refrain from communicating if that Church restricts sacramental communion to its own members to the exclusion of others.
vatican.va/roman_curia/po…ectory_en.html
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PIN.HTM
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theistgal
Guest
You know, devout Orthodox themselves feel just as strongly about the dangers of indifferentism as we do. That Orthodox priest who’s regularly offering communion to Catholics may be disobeying his own church’s teachings.
As Catholics, we really should NEVER present ourselves at ANY other church for their sacraments unless it’s a dire emergency - out of simple respect if nothing else.
As Catholics, we really should NEVER present ourselves at ANY other church for their sacraments unless it’s a dire emergency - out of simple respect if nothing else.
I agree with you but, I want to pose this question to see what your thoughts are in a slightly different situation.
I was baptized and chrismated in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Would that impact the ethics of whether or not it would be okay to present myself to a priest that is okay with Communing me? He knows that I now go to a Catholic parish but, he doesn’t view me as an apostate from the EOC.
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UncleBill
Guest
I personally see no problem with this…but then again I am a Catholic who regularly receives the sacraments from both Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox…BOTH with permission from the Catholic bishop as well as the respective Orthodox bishops.I agree with you but, I want to pose this question to see what your thoughts are in a slightly different situation.
I was baptized and chrismated in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Would that impact the ethics of whether or not it would be okay to present myself to a priest that is okay with Communing me? He knows that I now go to a Catholic parish but, he doesn’t view me as an apostate from the EOC.
Obedience is bliss!
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MorEphrem
Guest
I think it’s specifically the Eastern Orthodox that are so high strung when it comes to giving communion to Catholics. I have never had an issue at a Syriac Orthodox church and I know for a fact my pastor readily communes the Syriac Orthodox at our church.
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dzheremi
Guest
Eastern Orthodox and Copts and Ethiopians, it seems (from this thread). 
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